Hip Speed/Strength Key To Improving Forehand Power?

[Raul_SJ]

www.swing-speed.com

Any increase in hip speed is multiplied 16X at the center of the racquet head

The distance of the hip joint to the center of rotation is 3 inches. The distance from the middle of your racquet head to the center of rotation is 48 inches. 48 ÷ 3 = 16.

Any increase in hip speed will be multiplied 16 times at the center of the racquet head. It is the easy, effortless way to substantially increase your racquet head speed...

There is no leverage in your arms. The leverage is all in your hips.

That's why, if you want to increase your racquet head speed, it makes more sense to increase the strength and speed of your hips than to increase the strength of your arms or legs.

There is no leverage in your arms or legs. Period.
​

According to the above, one should focus on improving hip speed/strength to increase forehand racket head speed (power). It also seems to imply that knee bend contribution is relatively minimal.

Opinions on this?

 

[Fxanimator1]

www.swing-speed.com

Any increase in hip speed is multiplied 16X at the center of the racquet head

The distance of the hip joint to the center of rotation is 3 inches. The distance from the middle of your racquet head to the center of rotation is 48 inches. 48 ÷ 3 = 16.

Any increase in hip speed will be multiplied 16 times at the center of the racquet head. It is the easy, effortless way to substantially increase your racquet head speed...

There is no leverage in your arms. The leverage is all in your hips.

That's why, if you want to increase your racquet head speed, it makes more sense to increase the strength and speed of your hips than to increase the strength of your arms or legs.

There is no leverage in your arms or legs. Period.
​

According to the above, one should focus on improving hip speed/strength to increase forehand racket head speed (power). It also seems to imply that knee bend contribution is relatively minimal.

Opinions on this?

Straightening your knee helps engage your hips.

 

[Raul_SJ]

Straightening your knee helps engage your hips.

I was trying to engage the hips more yesterday and noticed much more power (I don't bend my knees due to injury). I think the knee bend contribution to racket head speed is relatively small compared to the hip rotation..

Federer does not bend the knees much. The power seems to come more from his hip and shoulder separation. I also recall the Jeff Salzenstein video advising that knee bend is not all that important.

 

[TupeloDanger]

It's definitely true that having the big and/or strong muscles of the body drive the kinetic chain is going to give more access to power than attempting to force it with the much smaller and weaker muscles of the arm and shoulder.

But feel free to roll your eyes a little any time somebody tries to put a number like "16 times" to it. The human body isn't a simple system that can be analyzed with elementary equations. The gist remains the same, but the way in which the muscles of different areas of the body fire in imperfect sequence, and with a good number of antagonistic forces working against them (those forces need to be there, BTW, to prevent injuries) as they fire, prevents those specific numbers from having any real world relevance.

It's enough to understand, "better use of the kinetic chain will create greater racquet head speed at the end of the chain." That part remains true. But if you haven't been moving your hips at all, and have been hitting 50 mph hour on your forehand, don't think that moving them 5 mph is suddenly going to add 80 mph to your stroke. It isn't.

It's also good to know that changes at the base of the kinetic chain only have large effects at the end of the kinetic chain to the extent you keep the arm really, really loose during the swing.

 

[Raul_SJ]

It's definitely true that having the big and/or strong muscles of the body drive the kinetic chain is going to give more access to power than attempting to force it with the much smaller and weaker muscles of the arm and shoulder.

But feel free to roll your eyes a little any time somebody tries to put a number like "16 times" to it. The human body isn't a simple system that can be analyzed with elementary equations.

They guarantee a 20mph increase in forehand speed. If their multiplier claim of "16" is correct, this player must have increased his hip speed about 1.25 mph.

Swiss tennis player increases forehand racquet speed 19 mph with the Somax Power Hip Trainer ( swing-speed.com/tennis.php ) The 16:1 ratio between the hips and the racquet head means that any increase in hip speed will be multiplied 16X at the racquet for the forehand, backhand and serve.

 

[TupeloDanger]

If their multiplier claim of "16" is correct...

It isn't.

 

[Raul_SJ]

My opinion is to get a coach and stop looking at useless silly diagrams.

You should watch the video before making any comments.

 

[bbrown]

The claim that there is no leverage from the arms is nonsense. Stand still, do not move your hips, and hit a ball swinging the racquet with just the forearm. You can hit the ball - that's leverage.

If the physics of the human body was a perfect machine as the diagram insinuates, then perhaps their claim of the effect of the hips on racquet speed would be accurate, but reality is much more complicated and many factors exist that limit this simplistic claim. That said, their is truth to the basic notion of hip involvement, but that's just commons sense. Remember that Somax has a product to sell.

 

[Bad Old Man]

I'm not interested in the video because the vast amount of players should not be worried about trying to get more power anyway. More power for what exaclty? To hit more balls out?

I have not been around here in a while, but it didn't take long to see that you certainly chirp a lot in your short time at TT. You sure as hell are inflexible and argumentative, rather than constructive, but I am sure your superior qualifications and vast experience give you an automatic pass on this. WHAT exactly are your qualifications?

 

[Fxanimator1]

I was trying to engage the hips more yesterday and noticed much more power (I don't bend my knees due to injury). I think the knee bend contribution to racket head speed is relatively small compared to the hip rotation..

Federer does not bend the knees much. The power seems to come more from his hip and shoulder separation. I also recall the Jeff Salzenstein video advising that knee bend is not all that important.

You honestly can't see the right leg straightening and initiating hip rotation?
There's another thread here talking about the danger of learning to hit from only watching video, this is the reason why....the inability of the casual viewer to translate what is actually going on.

 

[heninfan99]

power comes from a burst of the hips, then the trunk rotation followed by the racquet pull & flip
some call the modern forehand a "multi-segment" forehand because of these diff. parts

Ultimately, the key is racquet head speed, of course.

 

[Shroud]

how does one strengthen the hips anyhow?

 

[TupeloDanger]

how does one strengthen the hips anyhow?

Brown chicken, brown cow.

 

[Bad Old Man]

how does one strengthen the hips anyhow?

Doing the rhumba? A little limbo thrown in to keep things balanced. Actually, using a slide board helps to build functional hip strength. This is a good addition to your tennis conditioning program.

 

[Shroud]

Doing the rhumba? A little limbo thrown in to keep things balanced. Actually, using a slide board helps to build functional hip strength. This is a good addition to your tennis conditioning program.

what is a tennis conditioning program?

 

[Bad Old Man]

what is a tennis conditioning program?

Something that only happens in places where it snows heavily.

 

[Shroud]

Something that only happens in places where it snows heavily.

That explains it!

 

[Shroud]

Brown chicken, brown cow.

Sorry, I dont understand that reference.

 

[Tennisanity]

That 16 number I presume is with the length of the racquet alone away from centre of rotation as a stiff unit. Doesn't account for kinetic chain lag. So I imagine multiplier could even be greater with proper swing.

 

[Bad Old Man]

I don't agree at all. I offer very constructive and helpful input, people just don't want to hear it because it means they have to sweat instead watch videos and read forums.

Also a forum is a very ineffective way of communicating. The tone of voice is missing so things sometimes come across wrong. For example when you insulted me in another thread, called me a fraud and other slander,I could easily misinterpret that as something offense and negative.

Why not include my entire post in your quote? You omitted the question: "WHAT exactly are your qualifications?". Chirp on please.

 

[TupeloDanger]

what is a tennis conditioning program?

Run. A lot. Some slow, a lot fast. Rinse, repeat.

 

[TupeloDanger]

Sorry, I dont understand that reference.

It is just as well. It couldn't possibly have been more inappropriate.

 

[shindemac]

how does one strengthen the hips anyhow?

This is actually pretty simple. Pick up a ball, and throw it. Now put it in your opposite hand, and throw it again. Tennis is strange, because it requires good use of hips. You may think serve rightie or leftie, but it effects groundies.

I believe some cross-training could be useful, but there aren't any specific to tennis. This may be hard to believe, but most guys are stiff as a board.

 

[Bad Old Man]

chirp chirp. http://popkey.co/m/XmvVJ-bird-nope-****-you-mister-rogers

So you finally melt down into pathetic nothingness -- the same level as your so-called expertise. You've got nutin'. You cannot provide one iota of evidence for the credibility of your freely given "expert advice". Again, what are you qualifications? Simple question -- don't deflect.

 

[Bad Old Man]

This is actually pretty simple. Pick up a ball, and throw it. Now put it in your opposite hand, and throw it again. Tennis is strange, because it requires good use of hips. You may think serve rightie or leftie, but it effects groundies.

I believe some cross-training could be useful, but there aren't any specific to tennis. This may be hard to believe, but most guys are stiff as a board.

Medicine balls. Slam balls. Loads of exercises, starting with twists, that relate to tennis, among other things.

 

[dominikk1985]

studies at baseball pitchers have shown little correlation between lower body rotation speed and throwing velocity.

on the other hand hip shoulder separation and ground reaction force of the front leg had a high correlation.

 

[Tennisanity]

studies at baseball pitchers have shown little correlation between lower body rotation speed and throwing velocity.

on the other hand hip shoulder separation and ground reaction force of the front leg had a high correlation.

By ground reaction forces do you mean the ability of a bent front leg upon landing to push back up until straight?

 

[shindemac]

Medicine balls. Slam balls. Loads of exercises, starting with twists, that relate to tennis, among other things.

twist works the core more. hips don't move much.

by x-training, i meant more like dance and yoga to increase flexibility, range of motion, strength, etc.

 

[TupeloDanger]

Ah, twerking. Professional sports would still be in the stone age without it.

 

[shindemac]

studies at baseball pitchers have shown little correlation between lower body rotation speed and throwing velocity.

on the other hand hip shoulder separation and ground reaction force of the front leg had a high correlation.

yes, "power starts from the ground up" (i usually say this). i didn't want to confuse teh situation with the op, but i had this in mind when i made my statement. but i still provide answers to his questions to keep it simple.

i consider hip-shoulder separation an advanced topic, so i don't talk about it.

 

[Limpinhitter]

yes, "power starts from the ground up" (i usually say this). i didn't want to confuse teh situation with the op, but i had this in mind when i made my statement. but i still provide answers to his questions to keep it simple.

i consider hip-shoulder separation an advanced topic, so i don't talk about it.

I think upper body rotation is one of the fundamental skills of groundstrokes and serves. Check out the study in this thread I just started.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/a-study-on-the-mechanics-of-the-forehand.570246/

 

[dominikk1985]

I was talking about lower body rotation not upper body.

 

[Aretium]

That somax video is such bs. The player is swinging too early in the kinetic chain so he is not going to get any hip involvment in the shot. The after video, the technique is different. You can work your body as much as you want but if you are not using it, it won't work. Marketing lies

 

[Chas Tennis]

I believe that the same 'hip speed multiplier' argument in the OP was also applied to the serve.

Looking down from above on a RH server, the hips rotate the body with arm counterclockwise. But when also viewed from above, internal shoulder rotation - believed by leading biomechanics researchers to be very significant for serve speed - rotates the arm clockwise. It would seem that hip rotation speed would subtract speed from internal shoulder rotation since they are in opposite directions. Actually it does. How does the '16X' speed multiplication work for the hips and ISR for the serve?

How do the hips apply a 'speed multiplier' when they can be seen to rotate counter-clockwise and the ISR arm and racket rotation can be seen to rotate clockwise? Not to mention that the racket head is not a distance out from the rotation axis of the body, as illustrated in the OP, but above it. ?????????????????????????????????

Toly composite pictures made from rare overhead Fuzzy Yellow Balls high speed videos. Server Frank Salazar.

 

[Gazelle]

how does one strengthen the hips anyhow?

With the 'Somax Power Hip Trainer', duh.

 

[Raul_SJ]

how does one strengthen the hips anyhow?

Get in this position and try to bring the feet together, while someone provides resistance. He could not do it before training.

 

[Raul_SJ]

I believe that the same 'hip speed multiplier' argument in the OP was also applied to the serve.

The analogy given is a helicopter and propeller. You can get it to fly (leverage) by turning the shaft, not by turning
the propeller. That seems similar to the forehand motion. I would agree that it may not be as applicable to the service motion.

Lock and Roll "modern tennis forehand" video has a similar concept.

 

[Vanhalen]

Overuse and over rotation of the hips is the ruin of many golfers and tennis players

 

[heninfan99]

Delpo last night

 

[Curiosity]

www.swing-speed.com

Any increase in hip speed is multiplied 16X at the center of the racquet head

The distance of the hip joint to the center of rotation is 3 inches. The distance from the middle of your racquet head to the center of rotation is 48 inches. 48 ÷ 3 = 16.

Any increase in hip speed will be multiplied 16 times at the center of the racquet head. It is the easy, effortless way to substantially increase your racquet head speed...

There is no leverage in your arms. The leverage is all in your hips.

That's why, if you want to increase your racquet head speed, it makes more sense to increase the strength and speed of your hips than to increase the strength of your arms or legs.

There is no leverage in your arms or legs. Period.
​

According to the above, one should focus on improving hip speed/strength to increase forehand racket head speed (power). It also seems to imply that knee bend contribution is relatively minimal.

Opinions on this?

Raul, SJ, I think you had a better approach when reacting to the linked article by the Austrian researchers. It seems to me that when you're speaking of the ability to "leverage" angular velocity in some way, you should be thinking of the various ways the "lever arm" of the shoulder/arm/racquet system changes throughout the course of the forehand, and of the ways that separate physical components can be used, synchronized, to stack RH velocity additions through the artful use of UB, shoulders, upper and lower arm, etc. JMV/