Homeschool for competitive tennis player in a non academy environment

Discussion in 'Junior League & Tournament Talk' started by ac10splyr, Dec 12, 2012.

  1. ac10splyr

    ac10splyr New User

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    Seeing the experiences, negative or positive, while coaching high levels juniors at a typical club with no other kids who are homeschooled...
     
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  2. hhollines

    hhollines New User

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    My wife and I discussed this in-depth. Several of the top juniors in our section are home schooled. It's obviously a personal decision. We opted against it because we believe the social growth you get in school is so important to your development as a young kid and ultimately as an adult. Plus, my daughter loves school and the social piece is a key piece (John McEnroe is also a big fan of school and against home schooling, for what it's worth).

    I never want tennis to take over her life. It's her choice but I see her going to parties, dances, dating (yes, I'm a dad that accepts his daughter will date one day :), etc. Tennis is isolating enough. You learn life lessons in school (the good, bad, tough, etc.). Even if you become the #1 ranked pro in the world, tennis will only comprise a fraction of your life . . . As a parent, I just pray my kids have happy, fulfilling and long lives. Hopefully tennis helps my daughter develop into a strong, independent and self thinking woman.
     
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  3. db10s

    db10s Hall of Fame

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    I'm have 3/4 school and 1/4 virtual, I get the social interaction, but still have enough time for tennis.
     
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  4. tball2day

    tball2day Semi-Pro

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    The social connections in tennis can be amazing and thorough, and depending on the high school environment, preferred to the ones made there. Usually the high end tennis kids aren't that connected to their high school anyway, just like any overachiever in any activity that does it outside versus through the school, but they find ways to still go to dances, etc., if they want. A lot of times they are doing social things that are preferred by them, like traveling to great places and connecting with their tennis buds along the way. They tend to go to school just to get it done. We didn't consider social into our decisions, you can get social anywhere.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2012
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  5. MarTennis

    MarTennis Rookie

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    DB...

    How does that work with the school district? How do determine what classes and where? Cost?
     
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  6. db10s

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    No additional cost, I get out of school early, and take 2 FLVS (Florida virtual school) classes. Where normally I would have 2 electives, I only have my core (math, history, etc...) classes, and do the 2 electives online. It's pretty common in S. Florida, so the school district had an idea of what to do.
     
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  7. Chemist

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    Home schooling was never an option for my son, as we wanted him to have the best education and be a normal high school kid. He hangs out with his friends, goes to parties and dances when he is not playing tournament. I actually encouraged him to date a girl that has yet to happen. As for tennis training, he practices two hours in clinics after school Monday to Thursday; takes an hour lesson Tuesday; and when not playing tournament in the weekend, he does match play, take another private lesson, practice with me or does fitness. He has to do his home work after we come back home; a few weeks ago, he stayed until around 2 AM to finish his assay.

    In our section (sophomores, juniors, and seniors), two blue chips are training in academies. All other top kids (1 blue chip, 5 5-stars and a few 4-stars ranked above 150) are attending regular schools. I know a few home schooling boys, but they are not among the best players.
     
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  8. ac10splyr

    ac10splyr New User

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    I was more looking for any experience with a kid not at an academy doing homeschool, lets say in a small town, or a club that is very adult based...Just seeing any success stories or troubles...
    Again, it could be motivation because no other kid from club or area doing it...

    Curious
     
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  9. Chemist

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    If the education and social needs are met with home schooling, then I believe that home schooled kids should have an advantage over regular schooled kids in tennis training. The indoor courts should be more available and/or cheaper before 3:00 PM. It would be a lot easier to book privates with a good coach. You may bargain for a lower rate as well, as coaches are usually not so busy when kids are in the school. However, you would need to find him/her a good practice partner, another good homeschooling kid or have private everyday or work with a parent. Hitting with a ball machine may be another option.
     
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  10. Pro_Tour_630

    Pro_Tour_630 Legend

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    I know several home school kids at our club that I would rather not share what I really know in a public forum. :oops: sorry
     
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  11. ga tennis

    ga tennis Hall of Fame

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    I wish my wife and i could afford to homeschool my daughter. It is such an advantage because my daughter is at school from 7;30 till 4;00 and by the time she gets home she is tired mentally. The other advantage is when we get back from a tournament late sunday night she has to get right back up early monday morning to go to school. This makes her tired while the homeschool girls have the option of sleeping in monday morning. I think my daughter would not really like homeschool because she is sooooo social and loves being at school around all of her friends. I know that the education she gets at her school is light years ahead of what i could do for her at home. I can only imagine when she gets into high school how in the world would i be able to help her with trig and calculus????? I know that she has a very slim chance of being a money making pro so imma make sure her education is top notch so she will be able to get a good job one day. Im not saying that a homeschool education isnt great i just know that we could not afford to do it and i dont think that is what she really wants. Maybe one day she will say daddy i need to be training more and being at a traditional school is hurting her tennis. If thats ever the case we will find a way to make it work. It would be nice to be rich and my wife not have to work so she could stay home and homeschool the kids. My new way of thinking is one day at a time and to not stress about the things i cant control.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2012
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  12. Mitch Bridge

    Mitch Bridge Rookie

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    McEnroe grew up in an excellent tennis area with a prestigious after-school academy (Port Washington TA) nearby. He was also wealthy. It is easier for certain players to express what they feel is best when it was all at their disposal locally. Things are more complicated when you don't have top-notch training nearby or the proper funds to travel and train.
     
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  13. ac10splyr

    ac10splyr New User

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    Pro-tour 630, if you dont mind my asking, would you be able to speak off the forum?
    In that situation with a student....
     
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  14. coaching32yrs

    coaching32yrs Semi-Pro

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    It is all about keeping options open. Home schooling cuts off options. Going to an Ivy League college, and several other high level colleges, is no longer an option. I heard directly from several Ivy coaches that Admissions will not take a home schooler. If you don't believe me email some of the college coaches and ask.
     
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  15. tball2day

    tball2day Semi-Pro

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    I know this isn't true. Ivy's will take home schoolers and so will Stanford (I'd say that's a high level college). If you are hitting 2000+ on the SAT and a good player, those doors are still open. Homeschooling doesn't keep them out, perhaps their test scores, tennis level or other aspects of their app does just like a kid in traditional school.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2012
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  16. maggmaster

    maggmaster Hall of Fame

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    Yea I have friends that played sports and were home schooled who ended up at ivies and baby ivies. Unless it has changed in the last 10 years...
     
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  17. BHiC

    BHiC Rookie

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    I agree with you. It also depends on what a person's definition of homeschooling is. There are online public charter schools (like the one I attend), and there is also pure homeschooling where your parents are you teachers. Both of these schools can be considered homeschooling but on a resume look very, very different.
     
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  18. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Math can be managed. It is the science courses with labs (regular and AP) which are very difficult/impossible to duplicate at home. For the regular courses, I guess the labs can be done with one of the home-schooling science kits. But for an AP science course, teacher's guidance in the lab becomes very important and the lab itself is subject to College Board guidelines for it to be accredited.

    My son is doing AP Biology this year and the content and labs are way, way above what I studied a generation ago. I have no clue what is going on.
     
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  19. chalkflewup

    chalkflewup Hall of Fame

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    Let's talk real world. Only a fraction of the entire student population possesses the academic credentials necessary to get into an Ivy League school anyway. Nevertheless, I know of an Ivy League school that just signed and accepted a home schooled student. And, there are home schooled kids playing tennis at West Point - today.

    An institute of higher learning will not turn an eagle away if the test scores are there and if the applicant has outstanding leadership qualities (a big forehand helps too).
     
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  20. coaching32yrs

    coaching32yrs Semi-Pro

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    Sorry my friend but you are not right. The Harvard coach has gone on record as saying home schooling is a scam and the students are buying "A"s. He says that Admissions will not allow him to bring in home schooled kids. The only exception is where a student has a track record at conventional school and left high school after 2 or 3 years to train and home school. Columbia, Brown, Yale- positions on home schooling are similar. I know these coaches. Have you emailed any Ivy coaches or heard them say otherwise?
     
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  21. Alohajrtennis

    Alohajrtennis Semi-Pro

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    This is an area where the world is radically changing, so the Harvard coach may not just be in synch with program yet. There have been enormous progress in technology, and the materials. Most states accredit programs that allow 'home schools' to get a state high school degree, not just a GED, and many offer these programs themselves. Many Ivy league schools actually have huge financial interests in growing this market as they are looking to leverage their brands, content, capabilities to get a piece of it. They do not have a financial interest in disparaging it.

    Ten years ago, it would be very difficult for a student to get a home schooled education equal to that of a top flight public school without an enormous commitment of time from the parents, and even then, it would be questionable. Ten years from now, the opposite will be true, and at a fraction of the cost. We are really just in early stages of an education revolution.
     
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  22. TCF

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    ===================================
     
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  23. klu375

    klu375 Semi-Pro

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    Whatever it takes to bring TCF back:)

    It seems Ivys already got a few homeschooled girls for 2013. This includes Harvard. Maybe coaching32yrs should just click on TRN profiles instead of arguing a lost case.
     
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  24. Chemist

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    Agree! The labs are not easy to do at home. My son takes AP Chemistry this year. His teacher is doing such a great job that she requires kids to enter the data and results on a lab notebook and have the content witnessed on the same day that an experiment is run. My son is doing a better job than what I did in my graduate school!

    I wanted to add one more point - kids may feel more pressured (mostly from parents) to perform well if home schooled or attending a full time academy. A few kids in our section actually did worse in tournament after attending academy or home schooled. Two went back to a regular school after home schooled for one year and saw ranking go up. Well they also changed their coach.
     
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  25. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Interesting you mentioned AP Chem. My son took Honors Chem last year, the school will not let him to AP Chem again because they don't want him to hog two science slots a year (AP Bio this year, AP Phy next year). So I am going to have him do AP Chem in a private special school (it is basically one office suite with the kitchen as a lab) next summer. It is one block from where we live. He will get a transcript but cannot write the AP exam, because it is not offered in summer. I don't care about that because he will already have 2 APs going into the senior year. I might be shelling out $4000 for this summer AP course. It is a 1 one 1 setting and flexible timings.

    Something along these lines should make home schooling easier for labs. Or of course the charter schools which offer some days of regular schooling a week - labs can be squeezed in there. Though I don't know how many have the infrastructure for an AP science course.
     
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  26. coaching32yrs

    coaching32yrs Semi-Pro

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    OK coach. I retract what I said. Maybe I have a hearing or memory problem.
    Can still volley though. Just took out a top 18 year old in one on one doubles. Or maybe I didn't. Can't quite remember.
     
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  27. maggmaster

    maggmaster Hall of Fame

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    You can sit the AP exam the following year, you don't even need to take a class to sit those exams. I took 4 exams that my school didn't offer classes for and got credit for all 4 with self study.
     
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  28. TCF

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  29. coaching32yrs

    coaching32yrs Semi-Pro

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    This has nothing to do with this thread but one on one doubles is a great game. I can compete with top juniors 40+ years younger. Plus, and this is the key, it teaches them how to serve/volley and play the net. Server has to serve/volley both serves. Added bonus- they realize their old coach can actually play and start listening to him. In regular singles they crush me.
     
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  30. ac10splyr

    ac10splyr New User

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    Unfortunately all these posts have evaded the topic :*( , I asked in a non academy environment for a high level junior who is homeschooled
    Homeschooling in general is a whole different topic
     
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  31. maggmaster

    maggmaster Hall of Fame

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    I love this drill, my doubles partner and I got so much better last year when we started doing this. Another variation that makes it significantly harder is to have the server serve from the service line.
     
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  32. MarTennis

    MarTennis Rookie

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    Excellent summary...

    thank you very much.
     
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  33. tball2day

    tball2day Semi-Pro

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    I don't think we know what the question is. You have a high level junior that plays out of a club but does not attend a FT academy. I know three kids off the top doing that (not working together, way different in ages boys/girls). I would say two are completely normal kids, one is a total momma's boy (to an embarrassing degree). What is your question? How to get them the tennis they need? Can you clarify?
     
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  34. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Yes, but it will be a year away from when he takes the class, so he will have to study again. I don't think it is worth it. I want him to take the class again in college, not get credit for it through AP, because of its fundamental importance.
     
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  35. ac10splyr

    ac10splyr New User

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    Yes right on, sorry
    I was just interested to see how the kids supplement training considering no other kids around. Also how successful they are doing so? Rankins\tournaments? ...Do they have the kids just play adults or just privates in the morning and clinics in the afternoon? And have they seen considerable improvements since starting homeschool..,
     
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  36. Chemist

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    Pennsylvania Department of Education actually sponsors a dozen cyber charter schools. It's free.
    http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt/community/charter_schools/7356

    My son is very advanced in his math. He is taking linear algebra offered by Johns Hopkins on-line in his study hall. He has to email his home work to an actual teacher. He actually spent a couple of hours on his math in hotel room in October, when we were stuck in Atlanta and his school was closed thanks to Sandy. So, with proper adult supervision, our kids should be able to learn most of what a regular school offers, at home. Labs are the only exception though.
     
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  37. Chemist

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    My son also took Honor Chem last year. His school allows him to double up sciences, AP Chem and AP Phys this year, because he took BYU's US History on-line in the summer. We paid a few hundreds for this course. I never asked if a home schooled kid is allowed to take labs in a regular school - I would think its likely.
     
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  38. Chemist

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    http://assets.usta.com/assets/1/15/ExperiencedGuidelines_02142011_V2pdf.pdf

    The attached table shows a junior ranked top 150 in 18s nationally would be equivalent to a 6.0 player. You may ask the members of your club if they like to hit with your kid. They would be more likely to play a junior girl. Unless they are really good, like 5.0 and relatively young, under 40, they would not have fun playing junior boys who are ranked, say, top 500 in B18. Boys are a lot tougher than girls. I saw a #400 senior boy beat #40 senior girl like 6-2/6-2.

    With private in the morning and clinics in the afternoon, it appears that your kid won't have much time for school, home-school.
     
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  39. ac10splyr

    ac10splyr New User

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    Thank you for the answer and example, I don't have a kid that plays or is homeschooled, just know of one and was interested. And buly the way, he does have plenty of time for school, 4 hours of tennis/conditioning allows for plenty of time for studies which should still come first!
    And he is only 11 and in the 6th grade I believe, chance to excellerate his learning and progress in tennis
     
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  40. ac10splyr

    ac10splyr New User

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    And I would say is he equivalent to a 4.0-4.5 at the club by the way
     
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  41. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    There is some science slot funding per student issue here. But I think the real reason is that they have opened up a brand new engineering building at the school, complete with solar panels, fuel cells, robots, breadboards, 3D printers and lathes. So they forced him to take "Principles of Engineering" this year. Next year it will be "Digital Electronics" or "Engineering Design." This is part of some national push to get kids interested in engineering. I look at them as additional Physics courses with lots of labs (to add to the Advanced Physics he already took).

    In any case, he wanted two APs at the end of his junior year and he has gotten them: AP Bio and AP Computer Science. Then AP Phy, AP Calc and AP Stats in the senior year, and before that AP Chem in the private school to build on his Chem Hons.
     
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  42. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    Sorry, no one could really answer this question.

    The only thought that did pop into my head was this sounds so lonely if there are no kids around in an academy......
     
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  43. Chemist

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    Sounds like a great plan for your son. Nice to know another tennis kid who also excels academically:).
     
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  44. Chemist

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    I am really impressed that your 11 yr boy competes well against 4.0-4.5 guys. He will kick their butt in a year or two. Good luck with his home schooling and tennis training!
     
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  45. TennisNinja

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    Not really. Science classes today are becoming more and more of a joke. The amount of "real" science done in classes nowadays might shock some people. Many times in class we had virtual "labs" that amounted to little more than pressing buttons on a screen and watching the computer do the processing. I went to a school that had the IB program instead of AP but my friends in the neighboring school (same district) reported similar experiences.

    Clearly there are still moments that cannot be replicated at home, but the gap is closing every day.

    Many kids devote pretty much their entire time to tennis though. How are you going to be involved in activities like DECA , JSA, etc.? How are they going to pursue leadership positions not through a school that do not lead to a serious time commitment? I'm not talking about just 1 position here. You see kids with excellent academic credentials and leaderships in multiple clubs, organizations, and sports teams get rejected from the top universities in the nation.

    You have to understand that if you're applying to any of the elite colleges in the nation, for every person that is accepted, numerous others with the same or similar academic qualifications are rejected. It is a crapshoot at that level.

    Think about this. If the admissions officer has to choose between 2 tennis players with similar academic abilities but one is homeschooled, who do you think they will probably choose? The kid who demonstrates that not only is he involved with the community, but also demonstrates that he is a leader. I'm not saying it can't be done in a homeschool situation, just much much harder.

    1. You seem to minimize the significance of a GPA. Standardized tests are a great way of gauging a student's intelligence and problem solving abilities, but they do not reveal things a GPA does. GPA's require more than just filling in bubbles for a few hours. A student's GPA reveals if they can consistently produce high quality work and that they have the ability to make deadlines and finish assignments. Take 2 students with identical credentials, 3.95 GPA and 2250 SAT. One of them is homeschooled, however. Given the nature of homeschooling, it is probably the safer bet to go with the student that went to a regular school. The homeschooler would need to provide additional information to support their ability to perform at a high level.

    I know this is anecdotal evidence, but I know a number of people with GPA's in the low 3 range that did fantastic on standardized tests. How many people do I know with stellar GPA's but very average standardized test scores? None.

    2. I don't know about you, but I'm pretty sure very few kids have the experience and qualifications to land a legitimate internship that actually means something before their senior year begins. Honestly, who wants to hire a high school sophomore or junior in the summer when there are tons of highly qualified college sophomores and juniors also looking for internships? Unless you are a genius already or have great connections, it's not happening.

    3. Most colleges do not require personal interviews. Even if they do, many of them are alumni interviews, not actual meetings with someone on the admissions board.

    4. "Mr. Brenzel of Yale: We see only a few homeschooled applicants, and we do occasionally admit a homeschooled student. Evaluation is usually difficult, however. It helps if the applicant has taken some college level courses, and we can get evaluations from those teachers. We are not keen on homeschooled students where the only evaluations come from parents and the only other information available consists of test scores."
    You mentioned Harvard, but its rival Yale seems to have a different take.
     
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  46. tennisforlife77

    tennisforlife77 Rookie

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    You need to differentiate here between traditional home schooling in which the parent sets and manages the program and the newer online schools like Laurel Springs which is a fully accredited private school with a distance learning option. Laurel Springs is the school i am familiar with and i can't speak to other programs but colleges do not consider LS students to be home schooled. The lab packages for the advanced science courses are quite detailed. LS graduates are attending pretty much all the IVY schools - don't know if they are tennis players or not.
     
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  47. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    He does not play tennis! I do.
     
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  48. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    The labs my son has done right from the simple ones in elementary and middle school to the more advanced ones today have all been real labs. The simulations have only been during the theory classes.
     
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  49. TCF

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  50. barringer97

    barringer97 Rookie

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    Stanford had more kids apply with perfect scores on their SAT's then they have students. That's how crazy it has become.

    Tennis is our only way in.
     
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