How can Nadal be a GOAT candidate if...

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Mike Sams, Oct 1, 2012.

  1. NadalDramaQueen

    NadalDramaQueen Hall of Fame

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    True, you should never get your hopes up. When you're driving, you assume everyone on the road is an idiot, in order to stay safe. When you post on an internet forum, you assume everyone is a child incapable of rational thought (to put it nicely), in order to stay sane.
     
  2. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    Nadal is of equal dominance.....in fact Nadal is more dominat.

    Nadal at 26 years has had less opportunity than Federer . Second Nadal facd tougher competition. Third Nadal missed six slams and still somehow managed to win 11 slams by beating everyone,

    I'm sorry.....but Nadal is just better than Fed. It's really simple.....you can try and explain it away but Nadal is just simplybbettervthan fed because he beats fed. Therefore Federer cannot be the goat.
     
  3. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    Doubleos ,,,, sorry
     
  4. Shaolin

    Shaolin Hall of Fame

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    By TDK's logic, Hrbaty is better than both Fed and Nadal.
     
  5. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    I think Nadal’s best is better than Federer’s best. But Nadal is like a souped-up hot rod. Under perfect conditions, no one can beat him, including Federer. But if anything goes wrong, Nadal is thrown off.
     
  6. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    Don't know anything about the guy.....in fact ,it's articles actually back me up.

    Fed has the best record of all time..but it's impossible to call him the greatest of a

    Time when heismot the greatest player in his own era ....(John Mcenroe )
     
  7. Prisoner of Birth

    Prisoner of Birth Banned

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    Nadal's win % at the World Tour Finals where he's only up against 7 of the 8 best players in the world : 47.4%

    :) So dominant! :twisted:
     
  8. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    Percentage schmocentage....means crap .

    Was Sampras even in the top 20 when he won? Was Serena? Becker never was #1.


    Look Becker beat Lendl at Wimbledon and then neat Lendl again at the open. Butlendl was number 1.....do you think that's right?
     
  9. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    Seems to me you guys need formulas to somehow disprove that Nadal kicks the snot out of fed.
     
  10. Prisoner of Birth

    Prisoner of Birth Banned

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    :lol: That's even worse!

    Nadal has a 47.4 winning % against the "not-even-the-best players in the world"!

    Way to dig your own grave! :)
     
  11. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    He has 11 slams. He beat 100 percent of the people...including roger Federer 8 times.

    Hore than any rival in the history of tennis.

    Howny more times does Nadal have to beat fed till you give up.
     
  12. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    Think about the logic....


    Nadal dominates fed but rediscover the greatest player that ever lived:shock::shock:
     
  13. Prisoner of Birth

    Prisoner of Birth Banned

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    Are you speaking blah-blah language? Cause that sure as heck ain't English.
     
  14. ledwix

    ledwix Hall of Fame

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    Pure insanity is setting in. Look out.
     
  15. Zarfot Z

    Zarfot Z Semi-Pro

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    18-10 is not kicking the snot out of Federer.
    18-1 is kicking the snot out of Federer.
     
  16. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    Nadal leads the h2h based largely on his unbelievable clay court prowess. Likewise his lead in the slams is only so massive because of the 5 French Open matches Nadal has won. Nadal is far more dominant on clay, everywhere else the h2h is alot more even despite Federer declining significantly.

    Besides that if you're telling everyone to look beyond the stats you shouldn't just quote numbers of matches won...Federer has had many chances in his meetings with Nadal even at the French. The fact he hasn't capitalised is in part due to Nadal's determination and Federer's mental block against Nadal. In the AO 09 Federer won more points than Nadal, in Wimbledon 08 Federer had 20 plus break point chances that he failed to take. Not only that but Nadal won as the light was fading, big advantage for someone who plays with a bigger margin for error no?
     
  17. prosealster

    prosealster Professional

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    Nadal is not the goat since he is not yet the best player in his own era....it's crazy to suggest he is better than fed when fed has accomplished so much more....measure of greatness is about how one goes against the entire field rather than some h2h against a single player....that's why winning a tournment/major etc is so much more important than a h2h record against some one...THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT OF PLAYING A TOURNMENT...you are playing against the entire field...saying nadal is better than fed is like saying watson is a better golf player than nicklaus
     
  18. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    How many tournaments has Federer won while Nadal was in the draw, because if Nadal couldn't even make it to Federer then how can it be argued he would have won if they had met? Unless there's a matchup advantage.
     
  19. Prisoner of Birth

    Prisoner of Birth Banned

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    Very well reasoned. But blah-blah probably won't respond to you and if he does it'll be the same circulated "blah blah, head to head, blah blah, dominated, blah blah, Nadal better" post.
     
  20. Cup8489

    Cup8489 Legend

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    Nadal had less opportunity because he wore himself out. Again, why blame Fed for being better? Federer won more majors from 21-26 than Nadal from 19-26.. so your whole post is moot. Federer dominated, Nadal didn't. Except for 2010. One year. Like Djokovic. So no, Fed is better, dominated longer, and more convincingly.

    Cool story bro. So why doesn't Nadal win more majors? He's only managed the FO the last two years.. so much for being a souped-up hotrod. And why are you making another excuse for Nadal? How can he be GOAT if he's so easily upset? Isn't part of his legend his phenomenal focus? If things upset him so easily, then how can he be so strong mentally? Fail.

    Yet, Sampras won the event. Not sure why you brought up Becker-Lendl. We never had an issue with Fedal who was going to be YE#1. So, cool story, again, bro.

    False.
    If Nadal beat 100 percent of the people, he would have more than 11 slams.

    You fail again.

    Uh...

    [​IMG]


    Maybe put down the bottle, your ramblings make no sense and aren't even well done. I understand that it hurts that Nadal isn't better than Federer. I sympathize.. I really do.
     
  21. SoBad

    SoBad Legend

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    We need a global law that bans bottles and pipes while foruming.
     
  22. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    I respect all your stats and graphs and cross references somehow proving that Fed is the goat.

    But quite simply Nadal has done much more given the opportunities he has had and tougher competition.

    But that's not all he is 8-2 in slams against Federer. The absolute worst record for a #1 against his main rival in the history of tennis.

    I'm sorry but for me I can't get over that. I'm not saying Nadal is the goat but it's impossible for Federer to be the goat when he has such a losing reacord against his main rival.

    Sampras has less slams but in my opinion he is greater as he was more dominant. Laver although having less slams than Emerson is greater as well becaise of his sheer dominance.

    I'm sorry but that's my opinion am all the stats in the world cannot change my mind . It just defies logic to call someone the greatest player that ever lived when there is a living person who utterly dominates him on all slam surfaces .
     
  23. cknobman

    cknobman Legend

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    ?????? Exactly what opponents has Nadal faced that Federer did not?

    Federer has faced the exact same competition as Nadal; actually Fed has faced more competition than Nadal.

    If you want us to respect your opinions then you need to at least make an attempt to use logic. Again you can believe what you want but if your going to make retarded posts then don't expect to be taken seriously.

    And before you go on some rant listing out Federers opponents trying to make some asinine claim that they were not as good as Nadals let me just say Mariano Puerta. Probably one of the biggest chump Grand Slam finalists in history. He was not even a 1 slam wonder since he never won a slam. 1 career slam final and only 3 career titles with a career high ranking of only 21.
     
  24. RF20Lennon

    RF20Lennon Legend

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    Sampras made the QF's of all 4 majors just once in his career. Enough said
     
  25. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    Federer did not face himself.
     
  26. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    Fed Nadal is not all that different than Borg Mcenroe.

    Before Sampras they were in the running for the goat.

    Borg has more slams but Mcenroe beat Borg at Wimbledon and then again at the USO and then Borg retired at 25 years old.

    So who was greater? In my opinion Mcenroe was greater because he had Borgs number at the slams.

    By analogy Nadal is 8-2 at the slams against Federer. Even though like Borg Fed has more slams I just have to give it to Nadal.

    That's my personal opinion.

    Same with Laver and Emerson. Although Emerson had more slams I think Laver was the better player.

    The number of slams a player has is only one factor. Bit dominance to me is just more important . Therefore I think Mcenroe was greater than Borg, Laver greater than Emerson and Nadal greater than Fed......despite the number of slams.
     
  27. Sartorius

    Sartorius Professional

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    Yes, it's your personal opinion. Other people have personal opinions as well. I'd like to suggest you end your recent campaign explaining "why Nadal is better than Federer who is not the GOAT"; the amount of text you put into this effort would probably make a book, albeit a very repetitive one with dozens of "8-2" references*, and very badly mannered in general.

    I don't care for the GOAT term but I think Federer is the best, he is better than Nadal, and he can (and did) beat Nadal. I think Nadal beating him more times does not necessarily make him the better player at tennis overall, and I believe Federer performs better in general. On a very personal note, I think Federer plays the best kind of tennis which I value as a factor, not necessarily just when comparing him to Nadal, but when judging why he is the best.

    I saw somewhere you indicating that maintaining this sort of argument is insane. So just for the record, I also believe I'm quite sane, and that's my personal opinion.


    *Admittedly that's how these discussions go, very much in circles with many utterances of 8, 2, 17, etc... I think it particularly gets funny when one or both parties put out this numbers in an all serious manner (and in your case, repeatedly) as if the other forgot about them.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2012
  28. VPhuc tennis fan

    VPhuc tennis fan Professional

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    Just my 2 cents. How many more people beside me have to chime in BEFORE the light turns on in TDK's head?
    Perhaps this should be the title of my poll. Here we go:
    "How many more people beside me have to chime in BEFORE the light turns on in TDK's head?" Poll coming up.
    1, 2, gazillion times, infinity, or NEVER as NOT A DAMN CHANCE AS LONG AS HUMANITY EXISTS?
    Poll coming up, guys. Please vote.
     
  29. VPhuc tennis fan

    VPhuc tennis fan Professional

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    Another poll, guys: "Is TDK even speaking E-N-G-L-I-S-H?"
    You know, English as the language used by people in this forum, not some strange alien, out-of-this-world, dialect.
    Poll also coming up. Please vote.
    Choices are: 1)Yes, absolutely. 2)NO, not a chance in H***, 3) TDK does NOT speak, he's a robot as shown by the numbers of times he repeated 8-2, H2H, Rafa is my GOAT.
     
  30. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    And you are entitled to your personal opinion .

    But where is the logic of saying someone is the greatest player that ever lived when as Mcenroe said he isn't the greatest in his own era.

    Nadal is alive . He beat Federer 8-2 on all surfaces .....how is Federer the greatest that ever lived then? it's obvious to me.

    You can say Federer has the greatest record but to say that he is the greatest player that ever lived means at least to me that no one can beat him in his era.

    No one could really beat Laver, then Connors then Borg then mcenroe then Sampras but then you have Federer.....

    Federers career is built on not having to face Nadal . Thats the greatest player that ever walked on the planet????? Sorry not in my book and not on a Lot of people's book .

    You can't be the greatest player that ever walked the face of the earth by fortutuously not having to play one guy.

    Feds record as so many have said befor has a gigantic asterisk next to it. Everyone says it all over the net. It's a glaring hole in his résumé .

    Now is Nadal better than Fed??? That's a different story.....but one thing is for sure it's impossible in my opinion for Federer to be comsodered the greatest player that ever lived when there is a living competition who beats him. It just defies logic.

    The reason you have this weird situation that has never happened before is necaise Feds competition prior to Nadal and during his development was sub par.

    Can Fed win in any era yes....would he have 17 ......no way .....I think everyone agrees on that . And if we all agree that he wouldn't have had 17 there goes his claim to goatness.....it's the only point in Feds favor is 17......but some of those matches were quite sub par in competition .

    So if the only thing you got is 17 then I reject it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2012
  31. VPhuc tennis fan

    VPhuc tennis fan Professional

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    BigMc's words: Gospel truth? The guy flip-flops more than the # of times he got hit by Lendl's passing shots. Big joke.
    So Laver has ZERO loss for his entire career? Way to go, intellectual.
    "not having to face Nadal". Are YOU speaking and UNDERSTANDING English? My guess...NO
    Gigantic asterisk? Glaring hole? ONLY in your mind, but hey, nobody prevents you from dreaming.
    "That's a different story". OUps, shooting yourself in the foot by your own logic. Yup, it does defy logic. Again, are YOU speaking and UNDERSTANDING English? My guess...NO
    Fed's competition subpar. Humm, where's the damn comparo I asked, and you hid your head in the basement to not answer it.
    Everyone? You mean you and yourself. Way to go, intellectual. Want some more friendly fire by your Rafa's friends?
    Boy, boy, boy,...
     
  32. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    This thread is hilarious. 3 years from now the ultimate Nadal fanatic the Dark Knight and the ultimate Federer fanatic Cup8489 will still be going at it, worshipping and defending their players while thrashing all others to the hilt.
     
  33. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    Not trashing anyone.

    If fact I have not had a bad word to say to anyone and I believe I have been very respectful.

    I'm simply stating my opinion .....that's what suppsed to happen in this forum.

    Unfortunately , when someone can't debate or counterpoint the start to stomp their feet on the ground like a spoiled little girl.

    But I do respect everyone's view point and everyone is entitled to their opinions
    .

    I clearly see the case made for Federer being the goat and I do respect that viewpoint. I do not agree with it but I do in fact respect it.
     
  34. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    If people just stop responding to the TDK then he woudn't post so many craps. That's what happen when you are feeding the troll. If the posts are too much to bear, put him on the ignore list.
     
  35. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    Or you can just close your eyes and put your hands over your ears and yell
    "It's not true it's not true" like a little girl.
     
  36. RF20Lennon

    RF20Lennon Legend

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    I like how tennis = federer and nadal here
     
  37. Cup8489

    Cup8489 Legend

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    not. if he made a decent argument that I couldn't refute I'd leave. but he's nuts. sooo..
     
  38. Cup8489

    Cup8489 Legend

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    says the little girl with her hands over her eyes and ears.....
     
  39. Cup8489

    Cup8489 Legend

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    False.
    10feetinyourmouth.

    For the record, if you consider what I'm doing stamping my feet, you're doing the exact same thing. We're both making arguments and attempting to back up those issues with evidence. You're throwing out opinions because you don't agree with them. I on the other hand, while agreeing that Nadal is a blemish for Fed, still consider him the better tennis player.

    I don't consider fed in sole possession of GOAT, but he's more qualified than Nadal.

    This is my opinion.. and it's also modifiable. But not by crap logic or constant citing of '8-2'. That's elementary reasoning at best, and only one of a thousand factors that SHOULD be considered in this discussion.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2012
  40. merlinpinpin

    merlinpinpin Hall of Fame

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    Nadal never faced himself on clay either. In fact, he never really faced any really good claycourter, except Coria and Gaudio at the very start of his career, but they were both headcases and went away fast. Ferrero was already gone by that time.

    So Nadal got to clay-GOAT status because he had absolutely no competition on clay. So what? His results still put him above Borg, so you won't find some silly bloke opening forty threads a day to say that Nadal doesn't deserve to be considered a clay-GOAT because he was never able to beat Rosol in his entire career--not even once.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2012
  41. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    I think you underestimate Federer.

    He is an amazing clay court player.

    Fererr and verdasco almagro monfils all great clay courtiers as well.

    Certainly as good as almost anyone who Borg faced.
     
  42. merlinpinpin

    merlinpinpin Hall of Fame

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    Sure. :lol: Just look how many big clay tournaments the four of them have won or reached the later stages of.

    Thanks for the laugh, buddy. :)
     
  43. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    Glad you enjoyed it.....but just remember that the only person to beat Borg at the FO was a serve and volleyer by the name of panetta and not just once but twice !!
     
  44. Cup8489

    Cup8489 Legend

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    [​IMG]

    Leave thread. No credibility left.
     
  45. Cup8489

    Cup8489 Legend

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    Weird, isnt it, that Borg had a matchup issue there despite being significantly better.

    Kinda like Fedal isn't it?
     
  46. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    No aNswer to the above huh?
     
  47. Cup8489

    Cup8489 Legend

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    Answer'd.

    10luls.
     
  48. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    not a matchup issue per se....because a matchup issue is when you get a guy like rosol who can't beat anyone else but beats Nadal. In the case of Nadal he beat everyone and has 11 slams to prove it. That's not a matchup issue....he is just that good.

    Panetta is not a matchup issue.....he was an incredible player and won the FO.....rosol never really did anything. Big difference

    But I do see somewhat of an analogy.

    When Borg came on the scene baseline play was all the rage. Borg didn't face that many serve and volleyers and when he did he lost many times.

    Mcenroe brought the serve and volley back and that was a huge problem for Borg,

    Same with Nadal....he brought clay court tennis back....a style that has basically died......today's players are not used to it. And it presents a big problem for them .
     
  49. Cup8489

    Cup8489 Legend

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    No to this whole post. False.
     
  50. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    And so the Lord hath spoken .
     

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