How did we ever go from this to THIS????

Discussion in 'Pros' Racquets and Gear' started by BreakPoint, Aug 30, 2006.

  1. Discovery660

    Discovery660 New User

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    I was referring to the younger crowd of tennis, not the old guys that still wear the nut huggers. I was not referring to a specific race. I guess demographic should have been the words I used. Sorry.
     
  2. War Safin!

    War Safin! Professional

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    Okay - regardless if it was Monfils or Federer or Borg or Becker or even Billie Jean King wearing it....the new Nike gear still looks hideous.

    The smaller, tighter Fila/Tacchini gear back in the 70s and 80s isn't something that suddenly become a 'design-classic': the majority of fans liked it back then and went out and bought it back then. It's the ever-so-fickle and 'trendy' fashion industry that makes it such a big deal now.

    I'd love to see how many people wear Nike' new stuff as a result of this US Open. (off the basketball court, that is).

    Sampras. Federer = no fancy clothes, no posing, no 'paying homage in pink to old little bald guys' - just great technique, getting on with the task in hand (i.e. playing tennis) and winning loads of slams.
    'Nuff said.
     
  3. Kaptain Karl

    Kaptain Karl Hall Of Fame

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    <Exiting Lurk Mode>

    IMO, your last statement belies all you posted before it. One who espouses your POV would fall into the category of "choosing to be offended."

    I rarely agree with drakulie ... but the Monfils pic in the beginning of this thread made me think one name, "Buckwheat". Do you seriously NOT see it? The facial expression and the hair "style" was Buckwheat's. (I agree. Some people here ARE pretty ... something.)

    TILT!!! You two are the ones making this about "black people." Watch these stupid "reality shows" of the dance and singing competitions. At least a third of the idiots on those shows are dressed in similar Hip-Hop / Gangsta / ugly attire. Those morons are not exclusively black; they're just jackasses and mindless fashion lemmings ... black, white, asian and/or hispanic ... fashion mistakes.

    Let's deconstruct this pithy statement. By your same logic we cannot decry anti-semitism, age-discrimination, emminent domain abuses ... unless we are (respectively) Jewish, over 70 or have ever had our own land condemned so our local government can give tax breaks to some Mall Developer. Sometimes stuff is just "wrong" ... like the garish clothing Nike is touting ... and finding / seeking something to be offended about, just to be offended.

    So you paint the members of TT with the "brush" you use to describe those racists? You are doing the very thing you decry....

    You supplied your own answer in your previous post. 1) He "just" picks his butt all the time. 2) Imagine the tan lines Rafa displays at the beach -- unless (even more stupid) he wears those pajama pants to the beach, too.

    The "red" Nike has chosen to feature in these new styles is nothing less than garish. It really is an awful color.

    There's another thread on TT wondering why Federer isn't wearing the red. "Duh!!!" I'm pretty sure it's because Roger looked at it and said, "No thanks."

    Let me guess. You are under 25 ... think MTV is the best network ... and have to hold your pants up with one hand, just to show-off your boxers to your friends. Idiotic!

    Please! Nike should leave tennis alone, then.

    Yeah. Right.

    - KK
     
  4. maverick1

    maverick1 Semi-Pro

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    In most cultures(probably ours too if only we weren't biased by automatic assumption that something old is more respectable than something new), Wearing crotch hugging clothes and exposing thighs would be considered more indecent than showing a bit more your upper arms.
     
  5. Nike Man

    Nike Man Rookie

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    At the end of the day this is just different people's opinion on what looks good or bad, or what is appropiate or inapproprite. I can't really see the racism here......
     
  6. McKennanPark

    McKennanPark New User

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    What I think is funny is that to me they both look AWESOME.
    It's all the kind of bland stuff like Fed and Hennman wear that's a drag. I guess some people have style and others don't. Noel Coward famously remarked "Style is that certain something that is nothing." Both the players in the photos you showed have a lot of style in my imo. I love the look of Borg though and would look like a complete fool in the Monfils get up.
     
  7. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Truth be told, I wore the short shorts (no, they never hugged my nuts so I refuse to call them "nuthuggers") in the '70's and '80's and now I wear the longer "bermuda" shorts. I actually find the shorter shorts more comfortable and less restrictive. With the longer shorts, I'm always pulling up on the shorts legs when I croutch down to receive serve because they bind my thighs and restrict me from croutching down low. Sometimes they also get more in the way when I'm running or stretching for a wide shot. I guess it's the same argument people make about sleeveless shirts: the less material, the less restrictive. So I think wearing the long shorts with a sleeveless top makes about as much sense as wearing the short shorts with a long sleeve top. Less material being less restrictive works for both tops as well as bottoms IMHO.

    Anyway, I still wear the longer shorts now because, unfortunately, if I wore those shorts that Borg wore these days, I'd be laughed off of the courts. :(
     
  8. War Safin!

    War Safin! Professional

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    Federer's usually considered a 'style icon'!! :mrgreen:
    He looks just fine whatever he wears: he has a pretty allround good physique so gets away with it..
    Someone like Monfils, who is all arms and legs just looks like a giraffe in red pyjamas.
     
  9. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    I think you should go back to lurking.

    So to summarize, the poster Drakulie does a very obvious repugnant, obnoxious racial slur and then further steps up to the plate to make another innane comment and when multiple people object to his obvious racial slur, one of the moderators <rather than deleting the offensive posts> and suggesting the poster be banned, supports his racism....gee, thats' really good. You should also check out some of this guys other posts..they;re real gems
     
  10. dave333

    dave333 Hall of Fame

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    You call that appropriate? Men in tight short shorts? Ugh, my god, thats just nasty. Tight short shorts are for hot chicks, not sweaty men. What monfils wears is what I wear every tennis match; loose and comfortable. tight short shorts ride up your crotch too. God, that first pic burns my eyes.
     
  11. Offshore

    Offshore Rookie

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    Exactly NoBadMojo. Drakulie's posts should be deleted at a minimum....heck I've seen people banned for a lot less. Pretty ignorant racist stuff and I've notified TW Admin. I have close friends and family that have to deal with this attitude in life and there is no place for it here! I try to stay away from the "non-tennis" threads but when I venture over here I don't need to see that buckwheat nonsense from a 10 year old mind. The other posts in this thread have been mainly about the dress code debate which is cool. Drakulie is all about something else.
     
  12. Richie Rich

    Richie Rich Legend

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    being a little racsals fan i did see the connection between buckwheat and monfils. i didn't find the picture or comparison offensive. i think someone should send it to john wertheim (sorry for spelling) at SI for one of his articles - you know at the end where he compares players to other people of fame.
     
  13. Richie Rich

    Richie Rich Legend

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    neither can i - but that is just our opinion (and you know what they say about opinions?). but some people will bring it up regardless.
     
  14. Janne

    Janne Semi-Pro

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    I dislike the short-shorts since I think they look a little silly (I was born 89', could that be the reason?) and I also dislike the red and black Nike clothes Monfil wore a few days ago and also happon to think they look more like basketball clothes.

    PS: tangies08, you ARE overly-sensitive. They only said the clothes looked like basketball clothes and never said anything offending about black people and according to Brooklyn_bum I have to right to say that since I´ve been the target of racism many times.
     
  15. Richie Rich

    Richie Rich Legend

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    sorry for taking snipets of your post but i only want to respond to these specific comments.

    looking at the picture of buckwheat and monfils i see the resemblance. for me, that's where this ends. in my opinion, someone can look like anyone else so it's a valid comparison.

    in my opinion, whatever happened to buckwheat in the 1930's and the stereotype and connotations he portrayed, while wrong, is not relevant here. the fact that someone thinks there is a physical resemblance is not racist.
     
  16. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    ya man..i think many would see the resemblance, but almost everyone is considerate and aware enough NOT to comment on it because they are aware of the stigma and connotations which are STILL attached to the name in many areas of the country...they do this as a courtesy to others..
     
  17. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    I suppose these people complaining about the buckwheat photo comparison also feel Eddie Murphy is racist as well. Give me a break. Monfils DOES remind me of Buckwheat in the photo BP posted. Nothing else. He LOOKS like him.

    You guys are reaching and making something out of nothing. There was a week ago a post about The Food Court at the US Open being named after Serena. It was humurous, and not intended to be racist. One of the funniest threads I have read.

    NBMJ, I'm not demeaning an "entire group of people", if you feel all African Americans, or blacks look like Buckwheat that is your opinion. I simply made a comparison between Monfils and Buckwheat= one person.

    If the moderators want me to edit my OP, then I will.
     
  18. Kaptain Karl

    Kaptain Karl Hall Of Fame

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    I fail to see how a comment about a hair style resembance is ... twistable ... into a "racial slur."

    Since the "racism" didn't happen, neither did the "support" you invented.

    - KK
     
  19. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    I agree that Nadal's outfit is not quite as bad as Monfils' outfit since it's not ALL red, but it's still bad IMHO. That was the ONLY reason I chose to show a pic of Monfils instead of Nadal, even though Nadal is more well known, because I thought Monfils' outfit was even more garish than even Nadal's. But I guess I should have known that by showing a pic of a black man that someone inevitably was going to cry "racism", even though this is a thread about the color of the clothes, and not the color of the player. :rolleyes:
     
  20. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Yes, that would definitely be the reason. ;) LOL If you were born 20-30 years earlier, you probably wouldn't think they were so bad. :eek:

    BTW, frankly, I'm a bit surprised that you don't like Borg's outfit. Isn't Bjorn Borg still considered a national hero in Sweden? :confused:
     
  21. Mick

    Mick Legend

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    i wonder why Fila changed the logo on their apparel . I like the big F logo from the past over today's spelled out fila logo.
     
  22. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Yes, I do, too. But you can still find some of their new clothes with the big "F" logo if you look hard enough, especially in their retro lines. I recently bought a half-zip pullover sweatshirt that's styled like something from the 70's that has the big "F" logo. :D

    What you can't get anymore is the clothes with the "Bj" logo because Fila lost the rights to use that Bjorn Borg insignia when their contract with Borg expired. I heard they tried to license the logo from Borg after Borg retired but were unsuccesful. :(
     
  23. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    ya man..i didnt think you would understand. doesnt matter either that others complained about it in a strong manner before i did...it's all their fault and you and drakulie are right..i can not believe you could possibly be so unaware..just my opinion
     
  24. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Btw, Nike is marketing this hot red shizzle to young players not old fossils stuck in the 70s. Adidas has the short shorts and spidey tops to fill your wardrobe.
     
  25. Roforot

    Roforot Professional

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    Was the term "Buckwheat" used as a racial epithet? Like wetbacks were used for Hispanics? Or is it just a reference to a character on TV-show?
     
  26. NoBadMojo

    NoBadMojo G.O.A.T.

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    your op's should be deleted and not edited. you cant even process that the serena food court thing was about her weight and not ANYTHING else..you cant seem to discern the difference. i dont feel all blacks look like Buckwheat either as you suggest as that was never implied as this stuff isnt about me..it;s about YOU..you just make stuff up in your breakpoint type logic and twist everythng about because you got nothin'..as usual. your normal next step is to follow me around to other threads badgering and making snide comments
     
  27. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    But I guess that was the essence of my OP. How did we ever go from kids thinking of Borg's short, white Fila shorts as being the definition of "cool" for the tennis court to Monfils' huge, baggy, below the knees, long bright red Nike shorts (can they even be called "shorts" anymore ;) ) as being the epitome of "cool"? How did this happen and who's responsible for it? :confused: :(
     
  28. Mick

    Mick Legend

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  29. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    And you have the nerve to scold me for bringing up your name in some of my posts? :rolleyes:
     
  30. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Nike and AA, mullet and all are the culprits.
     
  31. Mulligan

    Mulligan Rookie

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    Just to satisfy my confusion since I could not see how anyone would be so inconsiderate (or "unaware" as NBM mentioned) to post a picture of Monfils and compare him to a long term negative stereotype of a 5 year old from over 60 years ago; I printed the post in question and brought it with me to my club today during a mixed doubles social. I showed the post and asked people to be candid if they thought this was racist or just a "looks" comparison...........to a person (about 15 people) they immediately looked at me like I was crazy and said OF COURSE THIS IS A RACIAL SLUR!!! Not one person could believe that it would be perceived to be otherwise or that someone would (or could) post this. This group included a couple of african americans and they just shook their heads and laughed in disgust at how pathetic, and yes racist, this post was. That a couple of you do not see this is too bad for you. Keep rationalizing your opinions however you want....but keep in mind that quite a few people believe this type of stereotyping to be very ignorant. Its not being politically correct, its just being considerate of other people. Enough of this I am back to the courts.
     
  32. Richie Rich

    Richie Rich Legend

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    i realize you feel strongly about this but explain to me how the fact that someone looks like another person is racist? now, that may not have been the intent of the OP who posted the Buckwheat pic but i can't assume what the OP's intention was because there were no comments with his post of the pic - that's just how i see it.

    maybe this thread should get moved from this forum to rants and raves or odds and ends????
     
  33. tangies08

    tangies08 New User

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    I am sorry if i was misunderstood but brooklynm gets exactly what i am saying. I too think Monfils looks a little funny sometimes. Its the fact that posters have compared him to a gangster, buckwheat, "go back to basketball" To me these are very racist and stereotypical things to say
     
  34. armstrong

    armstrong New User

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    Deleted Post
     
  35. Richie Rich

    Richie Rich Legend

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    go tell buckwheat zydeco he's a racist then
     
  36. Kaptain Karl

    Kaptain Karl Hall Of Fame

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    Mulligan - My thought is "you hang out with a PC crowd." (This isn't a flame ... just an observation.)
    ______________

    Whoa! Wait a minute....

    Even in the '70s, I thought Borg's shorts were only for very skinny guys. I never wore them as tight as Borg, Mac and Llendl. (I've posted it before ... the "shorts" of today's popular culture should not even be called that. They should be called "longs" ... or "uglies".)

    And for the record, I like Under Armour's loose fitting sleeveless shirts ... a lot. (I'm not silly enought to pretend I have the body to wear those form-fitting shirts Rafa wears.) I agree that sleeveless shirts are very comfortable. I train in them all the time. But in matches which "count" ... I still wear a collared tennis shirt.

    I still think most of you are posting about the "butt huggers -vs- the baggys" as the only choices. There are LOTS of in-between choices.

    - KK
     
  37. tangies08

    tangies08 New User

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    i am not saying that anyone on this board is being racist purposefully, simply that i feel many posters do not understand how distasteful their comments are to people who have had to live with racism in the tennis world for a long time. I know that too some of you I may seem like I am seeing something that is non existant and I understand that, just please try and look at things from my point of view
     
  38. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    I am old enough to still own those short shorts and if you think those are bad, it is soooooooooooooo ironic that Monfil's gear may be better worn on a basketball court. Let me post a pic of my John Stockton ultra-tight b-ball shorts from 25 yrs ago. Also understand a Buckwheat reference smells as bad as an Aunt Jemima reference.
     
  39. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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  40. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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  41. Richie Rich

    Richie Rich Legend

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    i hear you and agree with you - about the comments piece. racial comments, slurs, etc shouldn't be tolerated on a public forum like his. some of the comments in this thread are stereotypical (if not racist altogether). on the other hand, stating that someone looks like someone else, in my opinion, doesn't constitute racism.
     
  42. tangies08

    tangies08 New User

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    i see you point and i agree. the buckwheat comment was fine by iteself, it was the comments that followed that were offensive
     
  43. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    I compared the way they look-not their social status as you have. Therefore, you are the one trying to racially "bring down" Monfils-not me.

    The only one on this board who could comment on my intent, is me. Here is the fact, not opinion: I was making a comparison in looks. End of story!

    You are the one stereotyping-not me. I make a comparison in looks, and you make and distort that to make it a comparison in social status. You, and all the others are the racists-not me.

    As far as I am concerned, Buckwheat was a beloved character on a great TV show. If you want to say people that look like Buckwheat are racially inferior, or place them is a different social class--then that is your problem.
     
  44. Offshore

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    drakulie (aka d-bag); my last post on the issue. I have two beautiful adopted daughters from Ethiopia. Never had problems with racism and I certainly don't go looking for it. I really hesitate to even post now. Your posts have been garbage and your latest response is even worse. Its people like you that I hope to never meet. Buckwheat and Don King remarks, trying to call others the "racists", etc. You don't have a clue.
     
  45. Chopin

    Chopin Hall of Fame

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    Wow. What an awful thread. I just browsed through in about a minute and its sad to see the kind of flaming/rude nonsense going on here. What a waste of time for everyone involved. I’m not even going to comment anymore on such a trivial/boring issue.
     
  46. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Have they had problems with racism?
     
  47. Offshore

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    Listen, the last thing that I wanted to do is get into a racism thing on a tennis board. Life's too short and I'm having too much fun :) But to answer the question, no they haven't had problems. Maybe a brief stare or two from other kids (we live in a pretty "white" area) once in a while but my daughter's charisma, strength of character and joy of life are contagious. I was certainly more worried about potential racism...but pleasantly surprised that it has been virtually absent. That's why drivel like drakulie's posts kind of set me off. Some people just do not understand the stereotyping and subtle racism that goes on sometimes. The "gangsta" remarks, buckwheat cr*p, "thug" comments, etc. are definitely the signs of some pretty simple people.

    I love tennis and enjoy the board sometimes but man I've gotta take a break from reading some of this stuff. Not that anyone cares but see ya later.
     
  48. Mulligan

    Mulligan Rookie

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    KK, no offense but you don't have any idea with whom "I hang out". Its definitely not a "PC" crowd...trust me. Nice try though.
     
  49. Mulligan

    Mulligan Rookie

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    I'm with you. I was drawn into it it and have regretably contributed. Its nonsense and I apologize for getting too emotional. Its not worth the effort. Too much tennis to play :)
     
  50. Kaptain Karl

    Kaptain Karl Hall Of Fame

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    I don't "trust you." I stated my opinion based on your reported "poll" of your friends. I'll stick with my appraisal, thanks.

    The curious thing is ... you and others here have decided it's just fine to judge those of us who don't share your indignation over imagined slights. You are insisting you are "correct". Ever think you might not be right?

    "Nice try though...."
    ________________

    I studied karate for years in a predominantly black school in NY. I was one of four whites in the school. (The second week I was there, I was asked by several of the students -- teens and adults -- why I came across town to a "ghetto" school. My answer was, "If I'm ever going to have to defend myself, I thought it made sense for me to learn how with people who may actually have *done so* ... instead of with people who've "just" studied it." They thought that made sense....)

    I've encountered more double standards and judgementalism on this single thread than in all those years as a glaring minority.

    - KK
     

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