How Do USTA Points Work?

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by fleabitten, Sep 6, 2007.

  1. fleabitten

    fleabitten Semi-Pro

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    Can someone either help me with this question or point me in the direction of the webpage at USTA.com that covers this?

    I understand that USTA Tournament and League matches are tracked, and that you can earn "points" (or something) that go toward your overall rating.

    I know that if you are a 4.0 and you are playing up in a 4.5 tourny, and you beat a 4.5 player, you earn some points or something. Also, I've heard if you win a set but lose the match, you get some credit. Is this correct? How does this work?

    Does it matter if you beat that player 7-6, 7-6 versus 6-3, 6-3?

    Thanks,
    fb
     
  2. Raiden.Kaminari

    Raiden.Kaminari Semi-Pro

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    I believe you are referring to DNTRP.

    Depending on how you play against people, you generate an NTRP, which determines what level you are playing at.

    Check out these links:

    About Self Rating

    Find your suggested NTRP level


    Yes, it does matter on what score you beat or lose to an opponent. The greater the numerical difference, the larger the difference in NTRP, especially if you're self-rated. If you are already computer rated, it usually takes longer to move up or down.
     
  3. gjoc

    gjoc Semi-Pro

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    No, that is not correct. The computer only looks at the total number of games you won and lost.

    The computer doesn’t even consider whether you won or lost the match, much less any sets.

    Yes, you winning 14-12 is different to the computer than you winning 12-6.

    The former would say to the computer that you’re about the same rating as the person you beat, whereas the latter would say that you’re a somewhat higher rating than the person you beat.
     
  4. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    I hope this isn't true, because that would make for a very unreliable system. The winner should always get more rating points than the loser, regardless of the games won/lost. This is because in a tight match, the winner might've proven mentally stronger, which means they are more likely to win tight matches in the future than the loser, who might've choked towards the end.
     
  5. fleabitten

    fleabitten Semi-Pro

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    Thanks, but the links are not related to the question. I don't need to know about self rating. I'm asking about how the computer tabulation works.

    It seems like there is some disagreement from the responses. The reason I'm asking this question is that 4 years ago I self-rated at 4.0 and this year I'm trying to move up to 4.5. I've played 3 tournaments at this level and in my last one, I noticed that the tourny director entered my score in the computer wrong: I beat a guy rated 4.5 at 6-3,6-3 but for some reason on the USTA.com website the result is listed at 7-6,7-5. ???? If it doesn't make a difference in my rating, I'll leave it alone - but if it does, I'll make those calls to see if it can be corrected.

    Any more information? Has anyone found a link at USTA site?
    Thanks everybody,
    fb
     
  6. bsandy

    bsandy Hall of Fame

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    I think there's a catalog to redeem them for fab prizes.

    . . . Bud
     
  7. fleabitten

    fleabitten Semi-Pro

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    OK. I'm getting closer. I found this tidbit:

    4. Has the way that the computer program calculates ratings been changed?
    The basic mathematical algorithm has not changed. The computer still looks at your match scores and not whether you won or lost the match. Significant procedural changes apply in Dynamic NTRP, however. Where historically, your final rating was a function exclusively of your results at the highest level of competition entered, under Dynamic NTRP “final” ratings are based 50% on your cumulative dynamic rating entering an event and 50% on the traditional “benchmark” calculation method.

    on this page http://www.usta.com/leagues/custom.sps?iType=930&icustompageid=1481

    I wonder if there is a better description of how the algorithm works.
    It sounds to me if you win 7-6 7-6, it counts 14 games, and if you win 6-0 6-0 you have 12 games - this seems wrong since in the latter you destroyed the other player....
     
  8. Ace

    Ace Semi-Pro

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    Yes, it makes a difference if you beat somebody 6-3, 6-3 or if you beat them 7-6, 7-5.

    You either won 66.7% of the games played or you won 56% of the games played. It's a small difference, but yes, its a difference.
     
  9. bleach

    bleach Rookie

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    If your talking about points that's different than DNTR. Points are earned in tournaments, they are used determine your ranking (not rating). You win a match you earn some points, you lose, you get nothing. The more points you have, the higher you are ranked. Thus, the more matches (tournaments) you play, the higher your ranking will be.
     
  10. gjoc

    gjoc Semi-Pro

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    Whether or not your tournament results, as opposed to league results, are included in your NTRP calculation is a decision made separately by each particular USTA section.

    AFAIK, most do include them.

    In any event, why are you only looking at the games you’ve won? :confused:

    As I said, the computer looks at the games you’ve won and lost.

    So, 14-12 (2 game differential) is vastly different from 12-0 (12 game differential), no?

    As far as the exact algorithm, that’s a closely guarded USTA secret, to avoid/limit unscrupulous players gaming the system.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2007
  11. fleabitten

    fleabitten Semi-Pro

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    Wow, sounds like you know a lot about this gjoc. Is there a way to find out what our section does?

    Oh, I see. Thanks


    Of course, yeah that makes sense.

    So I guess I should call up the tournament director and have him correct that score.

    And for the other poster, who may have thought I am confusing ranking with rating - I am not. I was using the term "points" because I am not sure what the unit is called in the DNTRP system. "credits"? If you win a match the DNTRP system credits you somehow with something ambiguous called ____.
     
  12. gjoc

    gjoc Semi-Pro

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    Each section has its own website. You can find your section here.

    It can be difficult to find that answer, though. I’m in Mid-Atlantic, and I can tell you that they do include tournament results.

    I’ve actually never heard of any section that didn’t include them, but each one does have the option to decide that for themselves.

    What section are you in? (Maybe somebody knows specifically for your particular section.)

    I would, or e-mail--just because I’d want it to be right anyway!
     
  13. Raiden.Kaminari

    Raiden.Kaminari Semi-Pro

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    In terms of moving up, 7-6, 7-5 would mean you were equivalent to the 4.5 player, whereas 6-3, 6-3 would indicate you were slightly superior to the player. The exact DNTRP differential would be like .050 versus .150
     

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