How do we measure achievements of players in the pre-open era?

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by 1477aces, Jul 28, 2013.

  1. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne G.O.A.T.

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    kiki, Thank you very much for your understanding and praise.

    Yes, numbers by Fantasio and others are important but it's mostly necessary to put them into the right context. For instance it's important to look if a player's achievements were realized in a "tough" time or in a weak time.

    Another example: If we want to judge about Rosewall's fantastic two big finals in 1974 and his severe losses to Connors, we should consider that Muscles was 39 plus then and rather tired because they were finals, not first round matches. It's curious: The fact of Rosewall's strength as a grandpa and his being seeded was a disadvantage in his matches against Connors (five finals 1974 to 1977): These two met only in finals at the end of one and two weeks respectively. Rosewall had beaten all other strong players before the final. Some experts agree that Muscles would have had better chances against Jimbo if they had met in early rounds...

    In German we have the term "Fingerspitzengefühl" which means a special feeling, a "feeling of the fingertips", the right feeling for the valuation of things and matters.

    Gonzalez was not too old in 1969. Collins ranked him No.6 that year, Tingay No.8. Pancho won those two big events, Las Vegas and Los Angeles where he twice beat Rosewall and once demolished Newcombe and Ashe.

    In 1970 Gonzalez beat Laver thrice and Newcombe and Roche once. In 1972 he won three tournaments at 44...

    Yes, tell us more about Gisbert. I only know that he was a dentist and a fine claycourter. He won at least nine tournaments.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2013
  2. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    hahhaa Angie does not have good " Fingerspitzengefühl" does she??
    Gisbert was really a lawyer, and a truly spirited amateur.He came from a wealthy family and was very unfamiliar with pressure.It is a legend that , in the night before the 1967 DC final, the spanish team was desperately looking for him all throughout Sidney...he was found in the airport, desperate to come back, since he could not stand being the nº 2 player in such a decisive ruber...against the two best amateurs of the year, Emerson and Newcombe.

    Well advised by Hoad, who was the unofficial coach of the spanish squad, and accepted by the undisputable leader of that team, Santana, the Captain changed Gisbert for Orantes a day before the final started.Not that Gisbert was a bad player, since he reached the AO F a month later and beat Borg,Connors and Nastase in the early to middle 70´s...but he was a very lunatic ( and very easy going too) fellow.The thing is Orantes almost beat Emerson ( he was only 18¡¡¡) and proved his captain right.

    Gisbert and Orantes were a great team in doubs and in 75 won the Masters, beating both Stewart and Mc Nair.other than Orantes, I think only Mc Enroe has been able to win the Masters in both singles and doubles (Maybe Nastase did but I just don´t recall that).

    Both had very dramatic DC rubbers.Gisbert was very special; he had a great FH and was very dinamic on the return and at the net but he suffered a lot against the pushers who drove him crazy on clay.Could beat anybody but could lose to anybody too.Sometimes, Orantes had to have him pulled back to court because, he just went off temper and decided he didn´t want to play a match anymore...but he was a fine doubs player.Nastase liked him very much and both did some dammage in the doubles tour....
     
  3. kiki

    kiki Banned

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    Now I recall some comments from Orantes to Gimeno when they both and Gisbert made up a great DC team that beat the US in 72.Gimeno and Orantes were top ten players ( top 5 if we only consider clay with Gimeno being the FO titleholder and Orantes the IO titleholder) and Gisbert had just had a great US summer circuit, so the captain really had three great players for two spots.He finally picked up Gimeno and Gisbert and put Orantes as a doubles player along Gisbert.Orantes was ****ed off because he kept telling Gisbert to move right and he moved left and kept telling him to move left and Juan would do the opposite.

    Orates was a very calm, quiet, extremely polite guy.But that day he just went mad.he just plainly said to Gimeno and his captain: take this ******* out of my way or I will kill him before the set is gone.You know, that may be the only time he ever lost his temper.But he and Gisbert were very very close.
     
  4. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne G.O.A.T.

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    kiki, Sorry I had written Gisbert was a dentist.

    Nastase did never win the doubles of the Masters.
     

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