How do you beat someone that stinks?

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by dgrave2, Jan 23, 2008.

  1. dgrave2

    dgrave2 Semi-Pro

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    Ok I'm getting really frustrated because I'm losing to myself. I am playing these guys that have absolutely no pace on the ball and for their serves, I could basically stand on the service line to return their serves.. I need more spin spin spin, but what else?? I'm sick of losing on unforced errors. I lost 6-3, 6-7 (3-7), 7-5. and today I lost 6-3 6-3. I just need more accuracy.. because I know I can easily beat these guys.. but I do much better on paced games. So how do you beat the weaklings?
     
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  2. jagsv650

    jagsv650 Rookie

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    Beat them at the net.
     
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  3. dgrave2

    dgrave2 Semi-Pro

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    well thats part of the problem.. sometime i overdo it, sometimes i send it straight into the net, and other times its perfect. i know its my accuracy thats bad so maybe im the weakling haha. But I get so excited over slow balls that I want to kill them lol
     
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  4. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Slow balls require good technique.

    Do you have it?
     
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  5. Fuzzy10sBalls

    Fuzzy10sBalls Banned

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    Read Winning ugly by brad Gilbert & the inner game of tennis

    If you follow my advice, your life will be better.
     
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  6. dgrave2

    dgrave2 Semi-Pro

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    well the problem is, even when their slow balls make it sort of deep, I end up making an unforced error. I'm so iffy, sometimes I can add lots of pace and keep it in, others go right for the net or I hit too hard. thats why im only a 3.0 haha. but i talked to my pro about my match tonight so it gave him a heads up on the things I need to work on, so I'm at least thankful for these matches :)
     
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  7. bank5

    bank5 Rookie

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    then do that. if they have a weak serve, move in as close as you can. instead of trying to crush the ball back with spin, hit the ball at the highest point and simply tap it over the net.

    overall though, i'd work on consistency over pace. it's pretty tough to beat "pushers" without being consistant
     
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  8. fe6250

    fe6250 Semi-Pro

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    I'm no expert and I haven't seen your game, but my own experience is that consistency takes practice and experience and while you may be more athletic than these guys and your best shots may be better than theirs - you probably aren't consistent enough yet to make that work for you. You will eventually 'own' these guys - just keep practicing, taking lessons, and working hard. It will come.
     
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  9. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    There's no easy answer. Your only option is to groove your strokes so that you are more consistent. This means hundreds of hours of hitting groundstrokes. Another thing you need to do is to work on approach shots and volleys because you will have to end some of these points up there before your groundstrokes are good enough to punish your opponents from the baseline.

    This is the approach I've taken and I'm getting alot better at it. But there's no quick solution.
     
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  10. HowardH

    HowardH New User

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    Here's what I've learned and am learning.
    I've lost big to those kind of players and so rather than coming out firing both barrels or pushing in return, I try to start slow, not pushing, but being consistent. As the match progresses I start to loosen up and find my range and begin putting more pace and spin on the shots. Then I start going for stronger passing shots and winners. I learned the hard way not to come out swinging and looking for a knockout because you won't get it. Just start slow and build up as the match goes on and your confidence increases.
     
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  11. maverick66

    maverick66 Hall of Fame

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    make them run. its that simple. if they want to push make them run. see how long they can push when there sucking wind. also dont overthink if you miss who cares as long as you keep them moving its ok to miss.
     
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  12. Venetian

    Venetian Professional

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    Here's your problem: You think you're better than them at tennis but you're not. Get over that and realize it's going to take a lot of work and time to get better. Then put in said work and time and reap the rewards.

    There's no way someone can give you some magical advice via packets sent across the web and make you better, you're going to have to practice. Practice, practice, practice.
     
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  13. beernutz

    beernutz Hall of Fame

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    Well said.
    A++++++++++++++++ TW member.
    Would read again.

    OP, your title really says it all. You don't have to beat people who stink--you can just let them beat themselves. This is apparently what your opponents are letting you do.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2008
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  14. dgrave2

    dgrave2 Semi-Pro

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    Thanks alot for all of the advice. I know that what I need to is practice practice practice.

    I think my problem is I would much rather lose a game trying for shots rather than go out there and be afraid to put any kind of pace on the ball for fear of messing up.

    oh and venetian after i finish playing with the guy and HE tells me that I'm better than him......

    I guess i should have reworded my topic "How do YOU personally take advantage of a very weak serve?" because that is the type of advice I was originally looking for, because I've been losing most of my games due to errors on return of serve.
     
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  15. z-money

    z-money Semi-Pro

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    make them beat you! id mess with them and slice them side to side, giving them no pace till they miss. why hit out when you dont have to. by the end of the set he wont have any rackets left lol
     
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  16. tbini87

    tbini87 Hall of Fame

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    i am running into the same problem (except my opponents are really good). but they are simply letting me beat myself. it really brings you down to earth and lets you clearly see some glaring weaknesses (especially in consistency). you need to play smart, consistent, percentage tennis, even if it seems easy. if they have no pace then move in and take advantage. get to the net when you can, but don't force anything. some tips for playing consistent, solid tennis that i read in a book...

    don't be tentative.
    don't try to hit at maximum speed.
    don't go for aces.
    hit with plenty of net clearance (4-8 ft).
    hit with plenty of margin for error (6 ft inside all lines).
    use your best strokes as often as possible.

    by following simple guidelines and using good fundamentals you should be beating "stinky" opponents in no time!
     
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  17. tbini87

    tbini87 Hall of Fame

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    oh, and as far as a weak serve, that should really help you out. you should stand as close to the service box as possible. once he serves, your return should be deep and put you on the offensive. depending on your return getting to the net should not be a problem. watch for the lob! don't know about this specific guy, but that seems to be the shot of choice in the lower levels. if the serve is that weak, you should not have any errors off his serve, and should be able to be offensive throughout his points!
     
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  18. j30tennis

    j30tennis Rookie

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    This is my problem and you hit it perfectly. I am no tthat good, just my strokes are better. I am the perfect example of what not to do. On all acounts I should absolutely destroy my competion. I am the mistake machine. Practice and conditioning are key. Damn I hate that I know what to do but don't.
     
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  19. cknobman

    cknobman Legend

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    suck less than they do
     
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  20. dgrave2

    dgrave2 Semi-Pro

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    bwahhaha. yea.. that'd be good.
     
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  21. smiley74

    smiley74 Rookie

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    Dgrave-whatever you do...Don't push!!!!:twisted:

    Hang in there! My pro says if you go for your shots with proper mechanics....they will go in eventually! LOL

    When "eventually" will be is subject to debate! :shock: Hahahaha
     
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  22. Kingbird

    Kingbird New User

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    I'm confused by this question: "How do you beat the weaklings?" Your opponent is more consistent than you and you label him a weakling? Seems odd. You opponent gets more shots in that you and he's the weakling?
     
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  23. wao

    wao Professional

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    So your losing to yourself, I think we all have experienced this as we learn and develop the proper stroke mechanics. So give your self more room for error/more spin, would equate to less errors and being more consistant. The more consistant you are, you will then be in a position where your opponents are making more errors or in a position to attack and win the point out right. Fustration leads IMO to tightening up your stroke = more errors.
     
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  24. dgrave2

    dgrave2 Semi-Pro

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    Well if you would have read the other posts, later I said I should have reworded the topic to "how do you handle a weak serve?" I play a much better game against people who have a better game. When I play people who sacrifice their form and arent using proper mechanics just to make sure they keep their ball in and send a ball with very little pace, that is where I run into problems, when I have to generate the pace for the ball.

    Like some have said, yes, my opponents have obviously been more consistent.. but i'm not going to throw away all of my lessons and go to incorrect form and be scared and conservative just to win a silly match. I want to use everything I've been taught, (if I lose then I lose and obviously i did haha) and the area with which I struggle the most is where my opponent has no pace whatsoever and their serves are returnable by standing on the service line..

    I guess thats another reason I want to reword my topic.. its being seen as im bitter for losing and that obviously im the one that sucks lol. But I guess one thing I've kinda realized about myself after starting this thread, I go for too much. I want that beautiful winner, and the fact that they send me no pace makes me even more want to slam it back at them, and I run into problems. I just need to work on consistency, not going for the huge hits, but just making sure I'm following through and keeping the ball deep.
     
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  25. fe6250

    fe6250 Semi-Pro

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    This is a common issue for a number of reasons in my opinion. The first reason is you don't have as much time to think when someone hits pace at you and 'overthinking' doesn't get in the way of a good shot. The second reason is that you are likely to take a more controlled swing against a shot with pace as you don't need to generate power on your own and you are likely forced into a more controlled swing. Finally, it may be that you 'want' but are currently 'unable' to punish the weak serve (or hit) that your opponent gave you.

    With time and practice you should be able to punish a weak second serve or a weak shot in general. Try drilling with a partner standing closer to the service line and have them feed you similar serves. Work on keeping your eye on the ball all the way through the shot and get a feel for the pace / control of your swing....you will own this guy next time around!

    I'm not the expert though - so perhaps someone has better advice or a better drill.
     
    #25
  26. atomicx

    atomicx Rookie

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    In a previous post you said that you could practically stand on the service line to return his serve. If this is the case, then drop shot his serve. You are in the prefect position being at the service line while he is behind the baseline. I do this to everyone who likes to tap in those 2nd serves just over the net with no pace. If you can hit a decent drop shot you will win the point most likely. After doing this to him a few times he will probably start to come in right after his serve in anticipation. If he does this then hit an approach toward a deep corner of the court, or hit it right at his feet as he comes in. If you can do this effectively than it will force him to come up with bigger serves unless he is content with continually giving up points.
     
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  27. kevhen

    kevhen Hall of Fame

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    Patience. Don't overhit. Just place ball with angles for winners if they hit short weak shots. If they stink and you are losing to them , try to give them a little more respect for their patience and consistency.
     
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  28. dgrave2

    dgrave2 Semi-Pro

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    i know i know... was just beating myself up for stupid mistakes.. that first guy i played he won the first set 6-3 and i won the second set 6-7 (3-7) and at the start of the 3rd set i made error after error after error to fall 3-0 and immediately bounced back 3-4. I'm streaky haha. But yes, I will give the guy that, regardless of his weak shots, he stayed consistent.. and I did not. So more or less, the lesson of the story is.. i stunk. lol. and i'm headed to the courts now to practice :)
     
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  29. LuckyR

    LuckyR Legend

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    Once you get the idea in your head that #1- they are currently better than you and #2- you should only try for shots that you think will land in, then your path to beating these guys will open to you. Of course you do better with 3.0's who hit with a lot of pace, they're hitting tons of balls out. Anyone can beat a player who hits the ball out... (see post #1)
     
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  30. dgrave2

    dgrave2 Semi-Pro

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    actually ones with pace stayed in.
     
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  31. LuckyR

    LuckyR Legend

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    Whatever you say... but it would be the unusual 3.0 in my experience, who hits with a lot of pace and high consistancy, because if they did, they wouldn't be 3.0
     
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  32. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    I'll bet "the ones with pace" are actually "the ones with racket head speed and a correct finish and proper contact point." Which is why they stayed in.

    The ones without that stuff were the pushes, I'm guessing.

    What constitutes "pace" is all relative.
     
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  33. dgrave2

    dgrave2 Semi-Pro

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    thats about it. the ones whose balls dont just plop over the net but have some "zing" on them. Some 3.0's serves are very fast.. and i do better against those than weak second serves.
     
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  34. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Yeah, the inability to punish a weak serve is frustrating. Geez, I feel like the other player is getting away with something, and I'm letting them. I feel like I should pressure them with a few James Blake-style blasts off of their serve.

    Instead I hand them the game. Doh!!
     
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  35. LuckyR

    LuckyR Legend

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    Another view on the same issue. Folks with "pace" will hit balls that land in your optimal strike zone giving you a perfect ball to tee off on. Loopy, slow shots spend most of their trajectory well outside of your strike zone, so you either have to have great footwork and timing to catch the ball there or hit it outside of your preferred zone, less easy to pull off.
     
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  36. marcb

    marcb New User

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    Along with practice there is a very good book called "Tennis Beyond Big Shots" by Greg Moran. Read it two or three times. The same knucklehead thinking that makes us crack back a 20mph short ball into the net at 100mph will cause cause us to forget the initial reading.

    Counter punching a decent player with good form and pace is much easier than putting a junk ball back deep and high enough over the net to reduce unforced errors. Remember, the pushers aren't necessarily better players but they are better winners.
     
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  37. dgrave2

    dgrave2 Semi-Pro

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    ahhh i just want this thread to die. lol. can you delete a whole thread?
     
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  38. rosewall4ever

    rosewall4ever Semi-Pro

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    here's the problem - your mentally underestimating the opponent. Play oponents equally giving 100% -work hard and never give up :)
     
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  39. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    By being better than them. Unfortunately, in your case>>> THEY ARE BETTER THAN YOU.

    So, you could either start practicing to become better, or continue to be delusional that you are better than players who beat you.

    Last choice::: SWITCH TO A LARGER FRAME. :)
     
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  40. Strateon

    Strateon New User

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    I actually played a pusher with good groundstrokes lol.

    In the rally he was hitting back and forth with me with pace and spin. Then when the match started, all the chop shots and lobs started occuring.

    But honestly i think the best way to beat a pusher is to change up pace on the ball and also to bring him into the net and pass him.
     
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  41. dgrave2

    dgrave2 Semi-Pro

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    delete this threadddddddddddd.
     
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  42. A.Davidson

    A.Davidson Semi-Pro

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    Yes!

    Against a player that "cant even play", go to net. This will put pressure on them by forcing them to go for winners, and they will also have less time to respond to each shot.
     
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  43. THSBOI

    THSBOI Rookie

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    Lol dude i have the same problem, but i win the matches (it was harder then playing someone your own level) well to me it is =P i just try to go up net as much as possible thats it =P
     
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  44. TNT16

    TNT16 Semi-Pro

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    Actually one of the best ways to take control in this situation is to do precisely that -- stand *way* in to receive the serve. When that blooper comes over you are then in a great position to create crazy angles and get the timing destroyer on the run right away with minimal risk. This works especially well if the serve goes to your backhand and you have a solid slice BH . . . if not find a way to *control* and place your shot rather than trying to pummel it each time. Hitting solid shots off of floaters is NOT easy . . .

    If it makes you feel any better -- try to get your hands on footage of the Santoro - Djokovic match at the Paris Masters 2007 (2nd round I think) to see that the issue reaches all the way up to the pros [Santoro got Djokovic to hit TONS of unforced errors (especially on his forehand) while he was trying to hit solid shots off of Santoro's floaters . . . and ended up losing 6-3, 6-1 . . . Joker looked like a bobble head doll -- he was shaking his head so often.
     
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  45. rallyjunkie

    rallyjunkie Banned

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    I think Strateon hit it best: mix up pace. use variety. try to totally throw all kinds of different shots at them. start off basic, hit basic consistent shots, never try to hit your best hardest KO shot early in the match. save it for later.

    you need to be fit for a long match, a good mover, if not you will have problems. if you get into top condition just try to grind the grinder bea them at their own game.

    to try to KO them off the court - you better be real good.

    key is variety and mixing it up, attacking the net someimtes I think. so they don't know what the hell is coming next.
     
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  46. IanRichardson

    IanRichardson Semi-Pro

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    couldnt he just get the same setup as a top pro, like that guy.. roger federer

    i mean since clearly he is better than his opponents who are beating him he needs a racquet more suited to his game. Thats his problem.

    I love the way these people who think they hit the ball like a pro lose to old men with knee & elbow braces, then claim its because the other guy was too bad.
     
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  47. dgrave2

    dgrave2 Semi-Pro

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    hmm... i dont think i said that... and if you took the time to read the posts instead of just being quick to wanting to be a jerk to somebody, then you would have read that I should have reworded my topic and just wanted advice on how you handle pushers.
     
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  48. Venetian

    Venetian Professional

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    Ok guys enough is enough. This guy has already asked several times for the thread to be deleted and yet people keep repeating the same slams over and over again. Leave him alone already.
     
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  49. saram

    saram Legend

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    You are making all the errors and they are not--so define what good is for us. Good is not hitting ONE shot that is worthy of Sportscenter.

    67% of ALL points won in tennis come via an error--NOT winner. Stop thinking you are great, stop thinking you are better than them--BE BETTER THAN THEM.

    You need to learn how to take a short ball or floater and either put it away properly or construct a point to create a winning situation for yourself.
     
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  50. saram

    saram Legend

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    Sorry, hadn't gotten to this page yet prior to replying....
     
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