How do you contain the power so easily?

Discussion in 'Racquets' started by MikeHitsHard93, Oct 28, 2012.

  1. Larrysümmers

    Larrysümmers Hall of Fame

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    i like the pdr+ because i have a short take back and fast swing. this gives me a ton of spin and power.
    if you try too hard and try to get fancy with unleashing crazy power then you will fail.
     
    #51
  2. MikeHitsHard93

    MikeHitsHard93 Hall of Fame

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    Freaking tigers!
     
    #52
  3. MikeHitsHard93

    MikeHitsHard93 Hall of Fame

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    I believe this is what I have been doing wrong
     
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  4. kimguroo

    kimguroo Hall of Fame

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    Prince TT bandit OS ^_^
    Cheap and very nice OS racket haha.
     
    #54
  5. Larrysümmers

    Larrysümmers Hall of Fame

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    see these rackets are assault rifles compared to the silent pistol of the players frames. you've got plenty of power, all you have to do is aim. its not going to make you go from 3.5 to 4.0. but it makes your life easier.
    and dont be scared off by people saying these rackets arent good at net, because that's crap too. i can volley better compared to my prestige because it is more maneuverable and so much bigger in head size. At net is where tweeners really shine imo
     
    #55
  6. MikeHitsHard93

    MikeHitsHard93 Hall of Fame

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    Do you use the new pdr?
     
    #56
  7. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    your racquet doesn't have a lot of control. it has a lot of spin. most players under 4.5 don't have great control with that racquet. yes they can spin it in and have a heavy ball but not very accurate. ask them to hit a target with a decent pace and they'll never do it. you need very good technique to tame that stick properly. get a racquet w/ more control. you can swing harder with something that has more control.
    Yonex!
     
    #57
  8. Larrysümmers

    Larrysümmers Hall of Fame

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    when i hit with a friend who has a couple extra lol.

    i also use the npro open quite a bit. yeah, these rackets do give you a lot of spin, but spin is the name of the game. you control the spin, you control the power.
     
    #58
  9. Circa 1762

    Circa 1762 New User

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    Be careful. Adding weight in the handle may increase perceived maneuverability by making the racket more head light, but it won't decrease swingweight. You can never decrease SW by adding weight.
     
    #59
  10. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

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    no offense, but this is horrible advice.

    have a look in Tips and Instruction for an abundance of ways to ensure you can swing as hard as you like. or have a look at FYB.
     
    #60
  11. prjacobs

    prjacobs Professional

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    None taken :) . For what it's worth, I've had a lot of coaching from some of the finest coaches in the US. There are many ways to play the game and while a more compact backswing may not be right for you, there is a whole school of playing that espouses a compact swing.
     
    #61
  12. KenC

    KenC Professional

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    It seems many who really like the PD and it's clones end up putting a low powered poly string in that helps generate a lot of spin and then up the tension. In this way a low powered poly tames a powerful frame and adds back the missing control. The only thing is this combo can really wreck an elbow and/or shoulder. The better way is to get a lower powered control oriented racquet and then use multi strings or even gut to give it back some power.

    A lot of people start out with the Pure Drive and later end up with the Pure Storm Tour. With proper technique you will be able to hit a heavier ball with the PST than the PD and control it much better.
     
    #62
  13. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    Ken is correct and this is really about two approaches to tennis hardware and how it interacts with technique.

    Let's assume you want to hit with a ton of topspin and make that process as forgiving as possible with respect to hardware.

    You need a large head (forgiving target area), open pattern (greater spin potential), and light weight (higher RHS). For stability such frames generally need to be more HH and stiffer. Then to tame the power and, more importantly, provide control with such a large, open pattern stringbed you need to stiffen the stringbed with stiff poly strings which also happen to slide well and boost spin potential. Result: a fast, maneuverable, forgiving frame designed to maximize spin but whichis also stiff and can cause lots of unwanted shock and vibration.

    The other approach is old school: smaller head and its naturally denser stringbed (loads of control) and heavier, softer frame (lots of stability and comfort). But the smaller head and heavier frame is both less forgiving and slower making spin more difficult relative to the approach above (more difficult, not impossible!). Here one can use softer strings such as gut or soft multis for welcome power and comfort without losing control. And low frcition gut/poly hybrids make these denser patterns even more spon friendly.

    So I believe the key is focus. The more "modern approach" is focused on spin at the cost of comfort in order to maintain control. The old school approach is focused on control with comfort as a natural byproduct but at the cost of spin potential. Both approaches use strings to push towards its opposite in order to enhance its natural advantages while mitigating its natural disadvantages.
     
    #63
  14. Sreeram

    Sreeram Professional

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    I really wonder why many people leave a racquet just because it is little too powerful etc. Such comments always baffles me. I am currently playing IG Radical Pro and It is very powerful compared to my previous racquets. I never had any problem with it. On the other hand I have problem with low powered racquets like Prokennex Redendo though I like their feel. Ideally we should prefer racquets that are powerful and comfortable to us. If one has decent swing path to generate spin then power should be controllable. The most powerful racquet I recently playtested was Formula 100 but even here I did not have any problem keeping the ball in play. I just brushed the ball more to generate more spin.

    To the OP i would suggest to work on getting more brushing action on the ball before increasing the swing speed. If you are a flat hitting (with lesser brushing) then increasing the speed of your swing will increase more Unforced Errors.
     
    #64
  15. Larrysümmers

    Larrysümmers Hall of Fame

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    also mike dont get sucked into this 'players' racket and tweener thing. using a players racket doesnt mean youre a good player, and using a tweener doesnt mean you suck. all the good players i know use tweeners, its all about what works for you.

    also you dont need to use polys. i hit for a while with the apdc strung with tournament nylon, and i was getting great spin. also with the pdr+s they are with nxt 16 at like 60 lbs, you still get great spin. and they last longer than 8 hours.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2012
    #65
  16. JohnB

    JohnB Rookie

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    It would be a good idea to video yourself. Maybe some of us can help. If I may take a guess, chances are you are swinging to much with the arm, instead of swinging from the ground up by using your body as a kinetic chain.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2012
    #66
  17. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Maybe most of the power racket users, besides being more experienced, are SMALLER than you?
    Dr.Ivo
    Isner
    Querrey
    DelPo
    Berdyck
    Soderling
    Raonic
    How many are using stiff big racktets?
     
    #67
  18. Darkhors

    Darkhors Rookie

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    Mike, where abouts in Michigan are you? I'm there too and depending on where you are, I can recommend a few places to get some good hitting in at reasonable prices. Plus, there are some places that have mixers and such for relatively cheap as well as some doubles and singles leagues.

    PM me if you want.

    DH
     
    #68
  19. MikeHitsHard93

    MikeHitsHard93 Hall of Fame

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    I am not far from Lansing. I work there and go to school at LCC.

    LeeD, would that really have something to do with it? Maybe I hit out to lo much?
     
    #69
  20. El Zed

    El Zed Banned

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    Doubtful - Nadal, Tsonga, Roddick aren't exactly small guys. Technique is the key to power racquets - whether it be in terms of grip, stroke or the angle you keep the racquet head at impact. Much like "player's frames" require practice in generating power - power racquets require practice in developing accuracy (usually through the use of spin).
     
    #70
  21. Muppet

    Muppet Hall of Fame

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    If I understand correctly, it sounds like you are trying to use control oriented racquet technique with a tweener. I think to grow into your PD, and to a less extent your Pro Open, you need to let the racquet do the heavy lifting for you. Start by swinging the PD up to meet the ball and continue through the ball with a full follow through. You don't need to exert yourself so much. If that is working well, you can start adding some topspin. Again, this shouldn't require much effort.

    If you like to make an effort, get a control oriented type racquet and continue grinding!
     
    #71
  22. MikeHitsHard93

    MikeHitsHard93 Hall of Fame

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    I don't own a pd (used to have a Pdr but sold it). But yeah I like to hit out. Maybe a tweeter just doesn't fit my stroke style. I hit more through the ball rather than up it.
     
    #72
  23. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Guys.
    I think Mike here is 6'4" and 215 lbs or so.
    He's bigger than you and me.
    Pros that size get money for using a racket that might not be suitable for them, and might not be the actual racket you think it is.
    Amateurs that big don't need more power, they need to hit some balls IN the court.
    Even a PureDriveExtended CAN work, but it needs full W grip and tons of spin. Player balances spin with ball speed when he get's more experience.
    The other thing is, if Mike hits the ball within 1' of the netcord, it will go IN more often than not, between the sidelines.
     
    #73
  24. TennisMD

    TennisMD Semi-Pro

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    Exactly as quoted in the last sentence, Vic Braden an old time instructor had a book quick fixes which I read when first playing the game( early 90s) and to hit a ball out ,flat line drive, going the
    full length of the court is almost impossible. So obviously a technique issue, when attempting top spin probably catching the ball with rkt in an upward trajectory which would allow a90 lb weakling to sail the ball out. Use the imagery of your palm brushing up the back of the ball, provided your grip is eastern to semi western ,obviously it cannot be an extreme brush up( unless you have Nadal skills) or it will land short
     
    #74
  25. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    A huge mistake 3-3.5 players make is to forget the height of the ball they hit and the POSTURE they used to hit it.
    As said, nobody can rip a ball too long if the ball clears the net by 2', baseline to baseline. Of course, when you step inside the court, you can, or I can also.
    So, don't hit the darn ball 4' higher than the net!
    Typical 3-3.5 hits the ball 6' higher than the net, sees the ball goes LONG, and then tells himself to hit SOFTER so the next ball stays in.
    That is incorrect thinking...incorrect if the player wants to improve. Instead, he should be aware his shot is just too high to drop in, so aim lower!
    But big 3.5's like Mike here should add lots of topspin, find the medium between spin and depth, and swing out on all his shots, so he moves up to 4.0.
     
    #75
  26. El Zed

    El Zed Banned

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    With all due respect, your post is flawed. First, you really think world-class athletes (one in the realm of discussion of best ever) would jeopardize their career by playing with inappropriate equipment for the sake of an endorsement deal? Feasible, but highly unlikely. To this end, there is no debate that Nadal uses the original APD, Tsonga a APDGT+, and Roddick the Pure Drive. The antiquated concept of power racquets being for weaklings is just that, antiquated. Mike (who is admittedly a traditional stoke player) simply needs to adjust his mechanics to suit the racquet. Is it possible to do so, of course, but the question of its worth is one only he can answer. If he does, however, he will have more pace and spin on his shots than most (if not all) players' racquets.
     
    #76
  27. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    You prolly forgot to read my last two sentences, but that's OK.
     
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  28. El Zed

    El Zed Banned

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    No, I read your last two sentences and my post remains in full. Your post is conflicted and is not salvaged by your final two sentences. "Power racquets" work even if not utilizing clearance of only 1 inch. Further, your description of how a PD+ can "even work" is applicable not only to him (and other tall players) but to everyone - if you don't use a full western grip with heavy top spin, these racquets are not being used to their full potential - full stop, regardless if you're 5'5 or 6'5.
     
    #78
  29. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    ?? What are you trying to say?
    Mike already tried the PD's, didn't like them, and is looking at something lower 60's in stiffness, around 11 oz., he said so.
    I'm agreeing with his decision, then going on record to say PD's CAN work for anyone, but they need to make adjustments, if they hit too flat, which we know Mike does.
    Mike now uses SW forehand grip. He hits too flat. He said so. So easy cure is more W, more topspin, less ball speed, which he already has in spades.
     
    #79
  30. El Zed

    El Zed Banned

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    "What are you trying to say" - evidently you're not comprehending the obvious, so let me simplify things for you: you made a few absurd points, and I responded to those points directly. I stress absurd, since the concept that certain racquets are not appropriate for people on the basis of their height weight is ridiculous. Further your "point" about the pros misusing racquets for the sake of endorsements, etc. is equally nonsensical. I'm glad you finally corrected your position in that the PD/APD/Etc. can be effectively used if proper technique is implemented - a point that I made pages ago.

    You're making contradictory points premised upon nonsensical ideas - I suggest you move on before offering additional bad advice.
     
    #80
  31. MikeHitsHard93

    MikeHitsHard93 Hall of Fame

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    Why do so many women use the pure drive then?...
     
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  32. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    I wonder if there are TWO Torres's here on the forums?
    PD's offer easy power, come extended lengths, for the reach challenged players and those without big power.
    Shouldn't all posts be read in it's entirety before a comment is made, rather than dissecting a post into several separate parts, then addressed individually?
    Now try to figure that out:):)
     
    #82
  33. prjacobs

    prjacobs Professional

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    Lee, you've had many thoughtful posts, but I respectfully have to disagree with this one. I don't know where you get this info about 3 - 3.5 players only clearing the net by 6" but that is a recipe for disaster and one reason why they aren't rated higher :) . You cannot play consistent tennis aiming that low and telling Mike to aim lower is, in my opinion, not going to help him develop topspin. First of all, power at his level is overrated. Depth and consistency wins most points. If Mike isn't getting enough topspin, his mechanics are wrong.

    Mike, @ 6'4" maybe you're just not dropping the head of your racquet below the ball when you hit. The lower below the ball your shot starts, the better chance you have developing topspin. Not to say that this is the only way to generate topspin, but it's the classic way. Also try to close your racquet face a bit. See of those two elements help. Aim 1 - 2 feet above the net. Even Soderling and Berdich, pros with comparatively flat shots, clear the net by 2' with their shots and they hit a lot harder than any of us.
    That's my two cents....
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2012
    #83
  34. MikeHitsHard93

    MikeHitsHard93 Hall of Fame

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    Nah man I'm 5'11" leed just confused me with somebody else for a second is all lol. I would say my topspin is adequate, but I also hit through the ball a lot more than up it. I don't have a windshield wiper. I use a full cut.
     
    #84
  35. El Zed

    El Zed Banned

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    You're hopeless - yes, Tsonga is reach challenged and/or without big power. Before you try to draw distinctions, the PD and APD are more similar than not and I am confident that my point holds.

    As to your latter point, perhaps but not in your case. Your previous points clearly set forth the premise that "power" racquets aren't for big guys and you sought to support it in the post that I responded to. Perhaps I'm being too harsh, but you are passing bad information/advice to someone who is legitimately looking for help. Do him a service rather than pushing the old "players" racquets are better drivel.

    To Mike, flat out, if you wish to adjust your style and can maintain/improve your accuracy (and are not stuck in the "feel" of a racquet made when Reagan or Clinton were president - while remembering the point I made about Blu Tack) , some of these tweeners (especially the APDGT) will give you more pace and movement than a traditional players stick. I understand that this may be asking a lot, but the benefits are there.
     
    #85
  36. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    I see the discrepancy here.
    There are winner attempts, hit fast, swung fast, hit flat.
    There are RALLY BALLS, slower moving, usually well topspun, balls to continue the rally.
    Rally balls should be aimed 4-6' above the net.
    Winner attempts should be hit lower than 2' above the net.
    I just got back from playing macho :)shock::)) for fun tennis at the RoseGarden. We were slugging the ball, mostly fast flats with a little topspin, to drive the old farts off the court. Old farts don't handle 80 mph forehands hit a foot above the net, landing right at the baseline. They, for some reason, keep infesting our courts (the courts where we're trying to play good tennis, not push balls with skirts on them).
    One of my opponent's and I decided to just let fly. Our shots actually went IN about the same percentage, but with much more pace. Lots of service returns were hit less than 2' above the net, landing within 3' of the baseline.
    Those were not meant to be rally balls, but were meant to be winner attempts.
    We'll see how our strategy worked later in the week. For some reason, it seems the old farts are lining up to lose almost every point against us. Just don't understand the thinking.
     
    #86
  37. MikeHitsHard93

    MikeHitsHard93 Hall of Fame

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    I will definitely consider your points when choosing my new racket in the new future. Thank you for your contributions :) I think I may end up going to one of these sticks once I get my timing and stroke a little more consistent.
     
    #87
  38. xFullCourtTenniSx

    xFullCourtTenniSx Hall of Fame

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    There are so many different things you can do.

    Pros - usually use a crapton of spin, add weight to the racket, string with poly, string at high tensions
    WTA - string with poly sometimes, string at high tensions
    High level players - use a lot of spin, add a little weight, string with poly, string at higher tensions

    Out of personal experience
    1 friend controlled his shots using some spin and very good technique. (prob mid 50s to low 60s)
    Another just uses laser-like precision and great technique to hit a combination of ridiculous laser flat shots, unbouncing slices, and solid topspins. (prob strings low 50s)
    Another friend just raises his tension and hits with a lot of spin. (strings low to mid 60s, uses multis because he hates polys)

    All of these guys have solid technique.

    And just because the ball dove into the net doesn't necessarily mean you hit with too much spin. It could've been a mishit, or it could've been that you got forced back and couldn't hit through your ball enough to get it to go deep enough to pass the net. I'm leaning on mishit, because the times people legitimately hit with too much spin, they end up hitting it inside the service line, and not into the net. (Or your target could be wrong, since you SHOULD aim well over the net)

    The longest lasting fix is technique. Though it's also the hardest to work on.
     
    #88
  39. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    El Zed...
    I was specifically answering post 81, is that OK with you?
    Why didn't you cite Roddick too?
     
    #89
  40. prjacobs

    prjacobs Professional

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    Lee, I don't know if you've seen Spinal Tap, but I just had a Stonehenge moment. I mistook feet for inches.... Sorry.... Must be the hurricane in NY.
     
    #90
  41. Hi I'm Ray

    Hi I'm Ray Hall of Fame

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    nevermind. 10char
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2012
    #91
  42. El Zed

    El Zed Banned

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    Thanks for making the point further :)
     
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  43. MikeHitsHard93

    MikeHitsHard93 Hall of Fame

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    Zed, do you like Dunlop frames?
     
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  44. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Sure, I can prolly think of a few more big rangy guys, given the time...
    Facts can help every argument from BOTH sides.
    But still, my answer was directed towards PDR's and why WOMEN seem to like using them.
    You can answer with as many examples of MEN you want, but the question is about women, and why they like the PD's.
    I'm a weak old guy, love PD's, but like something made better and much lighter in weight...hence DunlopAero500's.
    Yes, and cheaper too.
     
    #94
  45. El Zed

    El Zed Banned

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    Actually, I do - truly enjoyed the 200 Tour (Bio, but the 4D is purportedly rather similar). It's funny, the original APD leaded up w/ Blu Tack in the handle slightly reminded me of my time with the 200 Tour. Sadly, can't speak about the others.
     
    #95
  46. MikeHitsHard93

    MikeHitsHard93 Hall of Fame

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    I am having commitment issues to buying a frame. Have had these issues for months...

    I've tried a couple dunlops and they were alright. I want to like one of the 300s because theyre so cheap and look so nice. The 4D 300T was the first racket I ever threw over the fence though...lol.

    I don't want to demo anymore. However, I don't know what to buy. I can't just have one racket to rely on. Need something around 11oz... Good all-around. Not too much power. Little to no vibration. LeeD says his rackets have no vibration, so I am wondering if the other Dunlops are like this as well. Idk. Frustration building up.
     
    #96
  47. El Zed

    El Zed Banned

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    Huh? Not sure I follow you as you have seemingly changed the question. I don't believe the focus was ever on women or their alleged preference for PDs (apologies if I missed it). I read the issue, as you put it, to be that power frames are not best suitable for those with inherent power (i.e. big guys). At least in terms of the Babs, I find that not to be the case. Power Racquet + Proper & Appropriate Form = More Pace and Movement than more traditional sticks; don't really believes that's controversial. For instance, I have a set of old prestige classics (Prestige Pro 600s amongst others to be exact) and pro tours than I've picked and have had some notable time with. Once dialed in, I feel that I have comparable precision with the APDGT than with either of those two older frames. Beyond that, while appreciating that some people truly prize feel above all else, I prefer the APD (original especially) over these frames since I have more pace and movement on my shots. To be certain, however, that is a comparison where I utilized a traditional stroke w/ SW grip (natural gut) on the Heads and a modern (windshield wiper) stroke w/ W grip (natural gut + RPM blast hybrid) on the APD. The Heads truly show their age in comparison, and feel is comparable if not actually slightly better with the APD w/ Blu Tack. To be clear, though, the APD is - to me - a dud when using even a SW grip (and yes, the Heads are a bit more versatile in this regard).

    As to build quality, I now have about 5 APDs (originals and GTs) and have no issues with their quality (in terms of fit and finish or otherwise). There is a lot of Bab bashing on this board, and I do feel the need to defend this brand with my positive experiences with them as a result. I'm glad that you are happy with your Dunlop, being content with a racquet is apparently a rare occurrence (especially on here).
     
    #97
  48. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Now now now, before El Zed jumps on my case again.....
    I never said my Dunlops don't vibrate. Hitting a tennis ball with a tree trunk would vibrate, to some extent.
    Hitting anything with anything will cause some stress somewhere.
    And mishits contribute more to the twist/vibration schemes.
    What you are looking for is an acceptable rate of vibration, NOT a complete absence of vibrations.
    Vibrations offer feel.
    I already mentioned my grip size, which is a contributing factor in this vibration/twist game.
    You know I"m only a 4.0, so unlike lots of you guys, I don't face AndyRoddicks serves.
    Acceptable is the operative word here.
     
    #98
  49. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
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    El Zed.
    Post 81, that's what I was answering.
     
    #99
  50. MikeHitsHard93

    MikeHitsHard93 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2011
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    What should I do, guys? Eeeny meany miny moe? Flip a damn coin? LOL.

    I wish I could just buy whatever and be happy with it. Then I could just base my purchase on how the racket looks.
     

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