How do you think the men feel...

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by DRII, Jul 7, 2012.

  1. DRII

    DRII Legend

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    when their serving performance (as far as aces are concerned) is compared and contrasted with Serena's?

    I think its absolutely ridiculous!

    We've had our discussions about equal pay, which i don't have a problem with. The slams and their directors and committees can make their own decisions about pay.

    But to compare Serena's ace count with the men is near ludicrous! If Federer had to deal with the same returners that Serena has to, he would have double or triple her ace count!

    Don't get me wrong; Serena's serve is brilliant and works near flawlessly in the WTA (especially the current WTA, if we still had a healthy Venus, Capriati, Davenport, Henin, Clijsters; it would be some what of a different story). However, if she had returners like Nole, Nadal, Murray (or any competent male pro) across the net her ace count would be vastly diminished!

    If they want to compare tangible stats like serve speed or placement or bounce height; then fine, but opponenent-dependent variables (like aces) are really not appropriate!
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2012
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  2. TenFanLA

    TenFanLA Hall of Fame

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    Those were my thoughts exactly. However since Chris Evert said that Serena's serve was better than those of 1/2 of ATP, it MUST BE TRUE. :confused:
     
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  3. Gorecki

    Gorecki G.O.A.T.

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    well - you got a point there. in Nadal's last Sw19 victory he did serve slower than Serena & Venus
     
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  4. Ripster

    Ripster Hall of Fame

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    It was a dumb comparison. I mean, you can serve 80 mph and get an ace on the WTA
     
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  5. DRII

    DRII Legend

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    Yea, but Nadal is not a consistently big server in the ATP. His excellence lies elsewhere. We all know he can serve into the 130's if he wants to...
     
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  6. DRII

    DRII Legend

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    Exactly.

    Serena did not have to serve hard at all to ace Azeranka. She just had to place the ball...

    Would never work in the ATP!
     
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  7. Sentinel

    Sentinel Talk Tennis Guru

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    Well, IIRC Serena had a 49 second game which is more than Rafa often takes to serve just once. So yes, it is a fair comparison.

    I also don't remember her toweling off between aces.
     
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  8. DRII

    DRII Legend

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    Could you get off your Nadal-hate for just a second and post an intelligent response :twisted:
     
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  9. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    I believe that Chrissie was talking about placement and speed, with the emphasis on placement.
     
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  10. Gorecki

    Gorecki G.O.A.T.

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    i did agree with you (first time tho). my point was just a perspective figure about serve speed to add something to the discussion.
     
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  11. Sentinel

    Sentinel Talk Tennis Guru

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    Dude, get off your Serena hate. i am only responding to silly thread by people like you and winstonplum, not about Rafa actually.
     
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  12. TenFanLA

    TenFanLA Hall of Fame

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    It's useless and pointless to compare men's and women's games. Serena will only play on the WTA, not the ATP tour. Nadal will never play on WTA (unless Uncle Toni can work his magic.) Michelle Wie tried to play on the PGA Tour and we all know how that worked out...
     
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  13. ThePro101

    ThePro101 Rookie

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    I agree with your points, but there is just one caveat. Women and men do not use the same balls, therefore I don't believe a fair comparison about speed can be made.

    The women play with regular duty felt, while the men play the extra duty.
     
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  14. Cup8489

    Cup8489 Legend

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    wait, what? she actually said that? LOL.
     
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  15. Towser83

    Towser83 Legend

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    Normally don't agree with you much, but here I totally agree. Can't compare th men's and women's game. Serena can certainly serve some bombs though that even some male players wouldn't be ashamed of, but still.
     
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  16. DRII

    DRII Legend

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    You're ridiculous.
     
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  17. Sid_Vicious

    Sid_Vicious G.O.A.T.

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    Chris Evert might be a great champion, but she sounds like an utter bimbo.
     
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  18. DRII

    DRII Legend

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    That makes it even more of a ridiculous comparison. Even the apples to apples numbers aren't truly comparable...
     
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  19. PetSounds

    PetSounds Rookie

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    Evert was ridiculous today. As was Shrewver saying Serena's serve is up there with the best men's serves. They must have put something in the coffee over at ESPN this morning.
     
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  20. Colin

    Colin Professional

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    But how many people are included in ATP Tour? A couple hundred? Or are we just talking Top 100? Even then, I think I'd prefer Serena's serve over half the guys there. A lot of them aren't that hot and Serena can hit 120.

    Sure, that's not up there with Roddick, Isner, Raonic or even Federer, but it's not bad. If she were saying it would be among the Top 25 men, then I'd say no. If she's comparing how effective the serves are within the respective tours, than Serena is certainly No. 1 in that regard, as I think her ground game would have gotten her knocked out earlier. Plus, I don't see Isner and Raonic in slam finals.


    Brad Gilbert picked Rafa as the best server on tour when he was gabbing in the ESPN studio at the beginning of the tournament! Brad was just being a hilarious troll, I think, because it shocked even John McEnroe, who kisses Nadal's butt almost as often as Rafa picks it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2012
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  21. TennisNinja

    TennisNinja Hall of Fame

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    They must be on crack if they actually mean in a direct comparison.

    More likely they were discussing how good her serve is relative to the competition she faces?
     
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  22. cork_screw

    cork_screw Hall of Fame

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    I'm gonna sound like a misogynist, but I know you wouldn't need to even make a comparison of having nole or nadal return serves. Honestly I have a good feeling that if you pitted Men's challengers and satellite players vs women's top 10, the men could still beat them. All you need is to watch some live tennis of professional women playing and you would not believe your eyes that these women are considered the top in the world and at a professional level. I've seen women at the US Open play like 4.0-4.5 club players. And to talk about equal prize money, seshhh, let's not even go there.

     
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  23. TenFanLA

    TenFanLA Hall of Fame

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    I watched Serena at her peak (2002 WTA Finals vs. Clijsters) from the front row, right behind the IBM serve speed clock. Trust me, UCLA men's team will have no problem handling her serves and game.
     
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  24. DRII

    DRII Legend

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    Serena hit 120 mph only a handful of times this Wimbledon. Even at peak she only hit 120 or over only a few times a match. Venus at peak would hit 120 or over a few times a game, even still her peak serve would not hold up in the ATP and thus should not be compared!

    And what do you mean 'respective tours' :confused:

    Serve stats, particularly those opponent-dependant, should not be compared between the men's and women's game; simple as that...
     
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  25. PetSounds

    PetSounds Rookie

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    That would be logical, yes. But they didn't mention anything about her competition. They just kept comparing it (favorably) to the men. What took the cake though was when they put a graphic on screen of the four singles finalists' aces this tournament, highlighting how Serena had by far the most, as if that meant something! Murray 'only' had 76, but Serena had 100+...they couldn't stop creaming themselves over that stat.
     
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  26. Service Ace

    Service Ace Professional

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    Serena's average 2nd serve was a few mph's faster than Murray's average 2nd...

    Fair's fair
     
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  27. krz

    krz Professional

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    Pam and Chrissie riding Serena's wiener?

    Tell us something we don't know. Those 2 are so biased it's not even funny. Their comments don't even deserve a serious response.
     
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  28. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    You're asking way too much of Sentigif,DRII. I can already see him shortcircuiting trying to come up with something different. :lol:
     
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  29. Defcon

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    Serena would get laughed off the court by any decent 5.0 who would hit return winners off her so called great serve.

    It's amazing the hype machine in US media that works for Serena.
     
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  30. PetSounds

    PetSounds Rookie

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    Another meaningless comparison, considering Murray doesn't have the luxury of facing WTA cream puffs. But of course you knew that...
     
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  31. PetSounds

    PetSounds Rookie

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    In many ways the bias and hyperbole is quite the norm for ESPN and their usual audience. But if you're going to bid for big events, expect some people who know something more than nothing about what you're covering to tune in. Hopefully the men's final can redeem the ESPN crew.
     
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  32. DRII

    DRII Legend

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    Thats a fairer comparison, but as someone else pointed out: the men use heavier balls than the women...
     
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  33. krz

    krz Professional

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    I guess I shouldn't expect so much.

    After all, they do employ Skip Bayless and allow him to talk on air too.
     
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  34. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Like I've been saying for the last couple of years, the women commentators in the US are absolutely horrible, and really have no effen clue what they are talking about or when to simply shut the F up. They vomit out the dumbest things.

    Do they not know that one of Serenas hitting partners is a top male junior who consistently kicks her *** in practice?

    Honestly, my ears were about to start bleeding listening to her today.
     
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  35. TennisNinja

    TennisNinja Hall of Fame

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    That is just embarrassing then. I didn't watch the women's final but wow...

    That's like going to a wheelchair tennis tournament and highlighting that one player has 100+ aces, so therefore they are clearly better servers than the best ATP players in the world.
     
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  36. heftylefty

    heftylefty Hall of Fame

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    I don't know why commentators feel the need to compare the women's game to the men's game. It is pointless. We don't compare male golfers to female golfers.

    As great as Serena served this past 2 weeks, see not facing any woman that can return like men. Serena's ace count was impressive, why not leave it at that.
     
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  37. TennisNinja

    TennisNinja Hall of Fame

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    Most people agree that the ace count is impressive. I agree that it's impressive. But to say that Serena's serve matches up to that of the top men is ridiculous, especially given the "proof" the commentators were using.
     
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  38. heftylefty

    heftylefty Hall of Fame

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    THANK YOU!!!
     
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  39. Raging Buddha

    Raging Buddha Semi-Pro

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    Here's your proof.
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=21533
     
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  40. Cavaleer

    Cavaleer Semi-Pro

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    Haha, great point and typical selective ignorance of so many conscious or unconscious "feminists", even though I don't think Chris would call herself that at all.
     
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  41. Racquet Daddy

    Racquet Daddy Rookie

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    Aside from the difficulty of comparing the WTA to the ATP, I think what's only been touched on in this thread is the main issue: the return of serve. Anyone can rack up aces if their opponents just straight up don't move for the ball :cough:Radwanska:cough: If there were some women that returned like the top 4 men, I doubt Serena would have that many aces. The men on the ATP are taller, stronger, quicker. To quote Ron Burgundy: You're just a woman with a small brain. With a brain a third the size of us. It's science.
     
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  42. Colin

    Colin Professional

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    I mean that within the context of the WTA, Serena's serve is more of a weapon against top players than it is for someone on the ATP like Raonic or Isner, who get knocked out because of mediocre ground games.

    Compared with Serena, they have better serves, but where is it getting them? The third round? Serena pretty much won this title because of her serve.
     
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  43. mellowyellow

    mellowyellow Hall of Fame

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    It is no different than comparing drop shot winners, women do not have the explosive movement to get a first step on a drop shot if executed fairly well, likewise they also can not get to the first ball on serve.
     
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  44. DRII

    DRII Legend

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    Ok,

    but they were doing a direct comparison. It was not relative to the respective tours...
     
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