How do you train for power?

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by user92626, Jun 26, 2013.

  1. user92626

    user92626 Legend

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    I mean to increase the power and penetration of your groundstrokes?
     
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  2. v-verb

    v-verb Hall of Fame

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    #2
  3. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    PDR, and of course, a mental attitude that only power counts, and hitting long is no big deal.
     
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  4. Lukhas

    Lukhas Legend

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    I drop tension and train for accuracy instead. Granted my groundstrokes are already technically fine, that is.
     
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  5. Thepowerofchoice

    Thepowerofchoice Semi-Pro

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    For me, there are bunch of little things (use your core, lose arms, shoulder turn...) BUT one thing that click and put things together for me is simply "Bent my knees" :)
     
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  6. StringingIrvine

    StringingIrvine Semi-Pro

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    Try getting those big foam '36 court beginner balls and play mini tennis with them. This will get your swing speed up then goto normal balls. They work great on the wall too.
     
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  7. v-verb

    v-verb Hall of Fame

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    Love it!!!
     
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  8. user92626

    user92626 Legend

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    What's PDR? Roddick stick? :)

    I don't have any problem with mental attitude. All my tennis is recreational.

    I ask because I already swing out of my shoes, at the top of my strength. No injury , no nothing.

    I see these two young dudes at the court who are smaller stature than me, they hit with crazy power. If they were bigger, they would be mistaken for pros. All their shots clear the net lower than 2 feet, bounce in and hit the back fence, and they play from 3 feet or more behind their baseline.
     
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  9. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Should you post a vid of you and a peer hitting?
    Size isn't everything, but some size gives consistent power on more different shots and situations.
    How can anyone fix something if they don't know what's wrong?
     
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  10. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

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    If you have good stroke mechanics, then power shouldn't be a problem. As has been suggested, post some videos of your hitting and then people in the know (not me, I just like watching tennis videos) can give you some helpful tips.
     
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  11. WildVolley

    WildVolley Legend

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    Good stroke mechanics with a full swing. Once I have that down, I try to always prepare early, move my feet to get behind and the correct distance from the ball and then to unload with speed and the kinetic chain from the bottom up. Slightly closed racket face in order to apply enough topspin to put the ball down into the court.

    Off court I lift weights, run sprints, do rotator cuff exercises and train with the speed chain.

    It is fun to punish the ball, but if I don't have time to set up correctly, I just attempt to spin it back into the court.
     
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  12. user92626

    user92626 Legend

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    About video, I'm gonna pull a suresh and say nyet. Nyet video :)
    Seriously, I got no camcorder or smart phone. :shock:

    I think there's only so much power I can do with a 11.5 oz apgt and I also need to flatten out my shot.

    It looks like hard hitters have no interest of keeping the ball in but then it's very hard to get past 3 shots from them.
     
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  13. boramiNYC

    boramiNYC Hall of Fame

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    First, improve coordination and balance. get rid of extra muscle mass that is not balanced throughout the whole body and stretch all the tight areas and strengthen loose areas. and maximize your proprioception. this will improve your form (posture) in general and take a lot of work and effort but this will improve your quality of the kinetic chain and your technique. This should be more than enough to play astonishingly powerful tennis for recreation for the rest of your life and give you super healthy physique.

    Next, if you want more power for serious competition, while focusing on the balance, increase muscle strength and joint flexibility throughout the whole body including heart (cardio) and breathing muscles.

    Simple.
     
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  14. user92626

    user92626 Legend

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    I just put more lead tape on my racket.
     
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  15. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Instead of weighting the racket, which might slow down your RHS and endurance, I'd watch that vid of Nalbandian hitting with the Canadian Open level guy.
    Nalby swings long and SLOW, hits very flat, hits deep, and pushes COG right off the court.
    Of course, for us amateurs, it also means hitting long, hitting into the net, and mishitting short....
     
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  16. WildVolley

    WildVolley Legend

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    Is this the video, Lee?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKf8dNbntrY

    And to user92626: hit harder with topspin, that way you won't blast everything long. All the cool kids are doing it.
     
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  17. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Love that video....
    Nalby just hits balanced, smooth, easy.
    Jibran is scrambling to even hit near the center of his racket, much less deep back to Nalby....
    On a much much lower level, reminds me of the first day I got to hit with a male A player. This after being Mareen and Marcie Louie's hitting partner for a few months. Rich just hit soooo smooth, so effortless, and his shots all landed within 2' of my baseline, basically handcuffing me and mesmerizing my pea sized brain.
    Then, when Rich hit some serves to me, and his serves are quite a bit slower than mine, WOW, the depth, placement, and consistency.
     
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  18. newpball

    newpball Legend

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    What's your racket and what string configuration are you using?
     
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  19. user92626

    user92626 Legend

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    11.5 apdgt, Kirschbaum Poly around 55lbs. Do you think the racket is too weak? My hard hitting friend tried these rackets and he instantly lost his usual depth and pace. His usual racquet is the federer tour 6.1.
     
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  20. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    While exact racket coupled with string can make a difference of say...5% in power, it's the player and his strokes that do the rest.
    Ferrer hits with power.
    Fed hits with power.
    Murray can hit with power.
    Nadal hits with power.
    Certainly Roddick hit with power.
    They all use different rackets, different flex, and different strings.
    The PLAYER hits with power, and if he chooses what is considered a "weak hitting" racket, he might hit just the same because his confidence to not hit long allows his body to swing faster and stronger.
     
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  21. newpball

    newpball Legend

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    It sounds to me like a great setup for a pro player.

    It makes sense to get stiff strings if you have a lot of power left while still being able to maintain control.

    But if not then the first thing to look at, in my opinion, is to get some more flexible strings.
     
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  22. Thepowerofchoice

    Thepowerofchoice Semi-Pro

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    Here is a great but simple tips that really improved my strokes. I'm hitting much harder but using much less energy.

    http://www.feeltennis.net/feeling-the-correct-racquet-path-on-the-forehand-and-backhand-strokes/

    Check out slow-mo of Nalbandian in the video on this website above starting at 00:32
    Smooth as butter!
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2013
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  23. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Funny you should use Nalby for your example.
    I brought him up also, maybe in another thread, of him hitting with the Canadian Open level guy.
    Long, smooth, balanced, FLAT, and deep.
     
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  24. MikeHitsHard93

    MikeHitsHard93 Hall of Fame

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    An aeropro drive can hit just as hard as any racket.
     
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  25. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    I hit just as hard with my 2,3, and 5 series Dunlop rackets, with my LMRadMid, but not quite as hard with OS rackets.
    Funny how almost nobody hits hard with granny sticks, the wide, big, thick superlight weight head heavy rackets, isn't it?
     
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  26. ATP100

    ATP100 Professional

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    As usual, it is usually footwork.
     
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  27. charliefedererer

    charliefedererer Legend

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    I'll bet anything their power is coming from more fully coiling and uncoiling on each shot, not from their strings or racquets.
     
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  28. user92626

    user92626 Legend

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    All, thanks for your input.

    question: in the forward swing, would you rather keep your elbow closer to the body or extend it, as result your arm is straighter? In a way I feel the former creates more leverage and involves the body more. The feel is like you do arm wrestling where you feel the power/force coming from the shoulder.
     
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  29. Thepowerofchoice

    Thepowerofchoice Semi-Pro

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    For me, I keep my elbow closer to my body during forward swings because it gives me more power and better control. And I agree that it does create more leverage and involves the core more. Think of boxing...I use more core and can punch much harder with my elbow close to my side vs swinging wild with my arm straight. I know there are many great players with straight arm forehands but that does not feel right for me. Just my 2 cents.
     
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  30. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    I'm more interested in seeing a vid of these little guys hit no higher than 2' over the net
    and doing so well. :)
     
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  31. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Two feet over the net and deep means they're hitting WTA groundstrokes, little topspin, good depth.
    That vid of Nalbandian hitting shows a net clearance of at least 3' on most deep shots.
     
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  32. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    which only works out ok with a cooperative hitting partner...maybe why these
    guys hit together regularly.
     
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  33. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Good point.
    But Sharapova hitting with Azeranka can duplicate "2' over the net, and deep to the baseline also.
    Also, underspinners.
    And lots of 4.5 looking hitters who lose to 3.5's in match play.
     
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  34. charliefedererer

    charliefedererer Legend

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    How high is the ball you are trying to hit?
    Low, waist high or up at chest level?

    [​IMG]

    The top row of pics shows a waist high forehand. The elbow is fairly close to the hip.

    The second row of pics show a chest high forehand. The elbow will be farther away from the body.

    The last row of pics shows a forehand of a low ball. Because of body lean, the elbow will also be further away from the body.
     
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  35. user92626

    user92626 Legend

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    Except exceptions, isn't ball height a matter of your footwork? I mean you can move to let the ball drop into your strike zone.

    Looking at Fed's photos, I just realize something. Maybe the first row depicts what is most suitable for rec players, well me, to follow given that we aren't very athletic or skillful that we can take off or go out of balance like Fed does in 2nd, 3rd rows. Stuff in the first row looks simplest.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2013
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  36. WildVolley

    WildVolley Legend

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    I'd like to see the video. That first series definitely looks like a serve return with a very shortened swing and little time.

    Be careful about comparing a serve return to a standard rally ball.
     
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  37. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    Practice swinging a baseball bat. If that doesn't do it try a (real) sledgehammer.
    You will quickly engage your core and leg muscles.
     
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  38. Rozroz

    Rozroz Legend

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    interesting. so how exactly i engage those specific exercises ?
     
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  39. Rozroz

    Rozroz Legend

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    might be the fact that Jibran is tensed hitting with Nalby and just cannot play easy. same way as one can maximize his power during coach lesson and practice, and in a match it's just lame.
    watch the 2nd video http://youtu.be/tVs0_mukFwU
    he is less tensed and start hitting deep.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2013
    #39
  40. boramiNYC

    boramiNYC Hall of Fame

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    there are many ways to see improvements in balance and coordination so I'll let you find your favorite method. what's important is that you clearly understand that the goal is to improve balance and coordination not something else. "balance and coordination" may sound a abstract but they really are not. test your balance. stand on a ball or walk on a rope. once your balance improves you will see the results clearly. and there are many training aids that challenge your balance. when you really try to improve balance however you'll realize you need better understanding of coordination to achieve that. hope this helps.
     
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  41. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    I was one of the VERY few guys who defended Jibram.
    But, alas, no. Jibran's ball never give Nalby any problems, and although hit hit higher over the net in this vid, they lack penetration and hop.
    Look at Nalby's shots. The way they bounce forwards, the placement, the accuracy.
    Jibran is barely defending, but this vid, he hits over the net.
     
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  42. geepeeone

    geepeeone New User

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    OMG Just played a 24 year old harmless looking dude who hit exactly like this. Balls clear the net no more than two feet, flat and deep. It's crazy, frustrating and embarrassing that I kept spraying the balls to the other courts.

    I doubt he'll play me again.
     
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  43. ClintimusPrime

    ClintimusPrime Rookie

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    In my experience, power comes from proper technique, bending your knees to get lower, or under the ball, and always stepping into the shot to use your body for the power. I'm 6'1, 163 and have a thin upper body build. I can hit harder than any of the men I play with that are far more muscular than me, but I have far better form and footwork. Hitting an open stance forehand for instance requires far more arm "strength" than hitting a closed stance low to high type stroke.
     
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  44. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Just hit for more depth, and your opponent thinks you are hitting with power.
    Just hit for more sidelines, and you opponent thinks you are hitting with power.
    Hit bullets up the middle, opponent grooves in within a few games....if they are you peers in skillset, and start to run YOU around your court.
     
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  45. RetroSpin

    RetroSpin Hall of Fame

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    This is a great way to swing a golf club, right elbow up against your hip. Not ideal for a FH though I believe. The radius of your stroke is decreased, leading to a loss of pace and control as the path cannot stay perpendicular to the target line for as long.

    Of the top pros, only Fed and Nadal have a more or less straight arm at contact on their FHs. Most pros will show the classic double bend position, with varying degrees of bend intheir elbows and their wrist laid back.

    The "arm wrestling" move you feel is called right shoulder internal rotation. It's the same movement that powers the serve. It clearly is a big power source in the FH, but so is right arm adduction, which is why players hitting modern FHs turn and face the net when they hit the stroke.
     
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  46. MarTennis

    MarTennis Rookie

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    you my friend...

    are a smart man.
     
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  47. user92626

    user92626 Legend

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    Wow I didn't know there was a term for it. .

    Can you explain "right arm adduction"? Thanks
     
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  48. Thepowerofchoice

    Thepowerofchoice Semi-Pro

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    Yeah can you explain this?^^^
     
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  49. jakeytennis

    jakeytennis Rookie

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    swing fast
     
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  50. TRobinson

    TRobinson New User

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    I find that the best way to increase the power of my groundstrokes is to hit against the wall. No, let me clarify, wail against the wall. Hit a couple of groundstrokes to warm up your shoulder and your abs and then hit the ball as hard as you possibly can. It might mean that you completely shank, or it may come back at you so fast that you can't hit it again. But, the more you do it, the more you will control it.
     
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