How fast do recreational players serve?

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Steady Eddy, Mar 19, 2014.

  1. Fuji

    Fuji Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2010
    Messages:
    6,587
    So I decided to get some footage of my own serve and use it on the speed app today!

    My "Best" serves with some dead balls and a demo frame were 104, 100, 100, 100, 99. All first serves. My second serves ranged from 80-85 as slice serves. Nothing too crazy.

    That being said, I'd hazard a guess that with my normal frames and fresh balls I could hit about 110 tops with this app.

    -Fuji
     
  2. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    35,753
    Totally agree.
    You are younger, faster, stronger than me.
    I wonder, what are your match play second serves? When you need them, not just hitting them against a radar gun.
    Mine are closer to 75, with twists going at least 10 mph slower.
     
  3. GuyClinch

    GuyClinch Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2004
    Messages:
    4,705
    Sounds legit. Kick serve usually about 30mph slower then a first serve. But we have really settled nothing on this thread.

    There are two camps:

    Camp 1: A 100mph serve - almost no one really hits it - though a lot of people think they do. Its rare - like the ability to crank an 85 mph fastball out to left field. (If you get a chance to try this - you will discover its effin hard).

    Camp 2: A 100mph serve is dog standard. Most men who play 100 times or more a year and are under the age of 40 will hit them. So yeah the average serve might not top 80 - but the people on the internet don't really count those people.

    A good real life comparison to this would be powerlifting. The general standard to be strong is bench 300/ Squat 400/ Deadlift 500. In reality hardly anyone does this - if you look at all the gym members in the world. There are so many little old ladies and small kids and injured dudes just stretching that the number of people who can do this is probably 1 in a 1000. Heck it might be 1 in 10,000.

    But if you went to some powerlifting forum - a lot of the members could do that. It's the same thing here..albeit to a smaller extent.
     
  4. Fuji

    Fuji Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2010
    Messages:
    6,587
    My second serves during match play probably float around that 70-80MPH mark. The fastest second serve I hit was 85MPH, but I realistically won't hit that too often during play. I wouldn't be surprised if my kick serve was about 65-70; it's pretty slow through the air.

    Averaging around 100 on first serve isn't that crazy. I have one of the bigger serves for my level, and I know play one guy at my level that serves bigger than I do.

    -Fuji
     
  5. Fuji

    Fuji Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2010
    Messages:
    6,587
    Haha that's for sure. It's tough trying to get some good information out of here.

    The biggest thing is that there is a difference between the average and the max. My average first serve is going to be floating around that high 90's mark, I don't change much from bucket serving to serving under pressure, on my first serve at least. I rarely go for the "huge" bomb of 105+ in a match, it's just too wild a lot of the time.

    The second serve idea is interesting though. I think I drop quite a bit of speed on my second serve during match play, I would guess at least 5MPH, if not more on average.

    Also, regarding your camps. The people that are in my level, I've only seen a handful of guys serve bigger than me. I have one of the "biggest" serves for my level at my club. It's all relative though, I have video evidence of my buddy who plays varisity tennis hitting 110 to 120MPH on the same app. Right now I'm in the camp, that most people can break 100 with enough practice and coaching, but the biggest thing is the technique. I actually have really funky technique (my serve looks almost identical to Tomic's) and I feel if I cleaned up the shoulder a bit I could go bigger.

    -Fuji
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2014
  6. ilovetennis212

    ilovetennis212 Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2013
    Messages:
    1,146
    Location:
    Tennessee
    I'm 5'9 short guy.
    It's been 6years I start to play tennis.
    Never had chance to take a lesson from USTA coach.
    I'm slow learner.
    I will clock 120mph someday.
    106mph max so far.
    96mph in video.
    Any critics are welcome.
    http://youtu.be/F7vLoZNV6xw
    And that pink bag is my wife's bag. Lol
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2014
  7. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2009
    Messages:
    10,510
    GOATing......
     
  8. shindemac

    shindemac Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2005
    Messages:
    2,228
    Are there still people in camp 1?! Serving 100mph is not that impressive a feat. I think anyone young and fit can hit this number if they put in the time. It's only a big deal cause people see it's 3 digits, and they probably never put it in the time, so they assume it must be impossible. But once you start practicing, you realize 100mph is a low bar for someone fit and healthy.
     
  9. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2009
    Messages:
    10,510
    Can a 4.0 get a point of Seppi? I think not.
     
  10. TennisCJC

    TennisCJC Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2010
    Messages:
    5,302
    We had a fat tall guy around 6' 3" or so on our team years ago. He could hit a serve over 100 MPH but maybe 1 in 5 went in at best. His biggest serves were over 110 mph in my estimation. He sucked and played the lowest position on the team because A. he had no 2nd serve and DF-ed all the time, and B. the rest of game was erratic too.

    But, he could hit a serve very, very hard. His motion was not horrible and he had a little spin. But, he just didn't have enough technique or spin to get it in more than 10-20% of the time so it was pretty worthless. He also didn't seemed concerned with improving it either. He just like to walk up to the line, toss it up and smack the heck out of it.
     
  11. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2008
    Messages:
    10,398
    Try this....step up to the svc line with that same set up (maybe even with the radar set up a bit higher close to net height) and see what you get. I bet you can break 100 by a bit...will you try it? :)
     
  12. shindemac

    shindemac Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2005
    Messages:
    2,228
    I've already done this, and the speed will be higher. I haven't tried to account for all the variables, but there's definitely a big discrepancy between pro radar guns and consumer models, esp. looking at that Sandler match.
     
  13. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    35,753
    100, it's possible.
    110, it's possible.
    120, no chance, because you're too old to really change all that much in your game.
     
  14. hray4clay

    hray4clay Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2013
    Messages:
    170
    Location:
    Stuck in Myrtle Beach area
    Can a "regular" person buy a piece of equipment that he can use to measure the speed of his serve and what would that equipment cost, praytell?
     
  15. Fuji

    Fuji Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2010
    Messages:
    6,587
    I just used my iPhone and the "servespeed" app. Just record yourself serving and input some personal data to retrieve your MPH/KPH speed. I read that it's almost identical to Pro radar speeds within a couple MPH, so it gives relatively accurate speeds.

    The app is available on the apple app store for free. :)

    -Fuji
     
  16. WildVolley

    WildVolley Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2007
    Messages:
    5,703
    You can buy a radar gun. TW sells the Pocket Radar for $200. You can find other radar systems of varying quality from about $60-$2000. I think there are a number around $200 these days that work very well.
     
  17. ilovetennis212

    ilovetennis212 Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2013
    Messages:
    1,146
    Location:
    Tennessee

    I'm just half old of your age..
    But I know I'm too old for tennis age (17 - 30) since I'm 31yrs old. Lol
    Wish there's someone around me who break down my technic.
    I will post 110mph soon :)
     
  18. ilovetennis212

    ilovetennis212 Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2013
    Messages:
    1,146
    Location:
    Tennessee
  19. GuyClinch

    GuyClinch Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2004
    Messages:
    4,705
    Speed Trac gets very poor reviews. I would not champion that - it seems to consistently score much lower then a Juggs radar gun.

    I think the frame rate method is more accurate..YMMV.
     
  20. ilovetennis212

    ilovetennis212 Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2013
    Messages:
    1,146
    Location:
    Tennessee


    speed trac x read slower than actual speed of the ball. Because it reads when ball is coming close to speed trac.
    Pro's gun read the speed of the ball right after service contact is made.
    You can add +5mph to speed trac x radar's speed to get more accurate speed.
    Frame rate method is more accurate if you have time to calculate all your serve of the matches.
    With speed trac x, I kinda notice what's wrong with my service motion when the speed shows low. And I can study on my muscle memory of aces (+100mph) service motion at the court.
    I think that's the benefit of having any speed gun at the court.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2014
  21. mightyrick

    mightyrick Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2010
    Messages:
    4,667
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Huhuhuhuh huhuhuhuh eheheheh.... you said... juggs....

    [​IMG]
     
  22. Dimcorner

    Dimcorner Professional

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2012
    Messages:
    814
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2014
  23. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2009
    Messages:
    10,510
    Crickets...
     
  24. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2011
    Messages:
    12,893
    Location:
    In the future
    Speed Trac X sucks big time. Not accurate. just to prove it. I hit some Groundies at same speed and it Varied by 15-20 MPH.
    so I suspect same thing is happening with Serves too
     
  25. ilovetennis212

    ilovetennis212 Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2013
    Messages:
    1,146
    Location:
    Tennessee

    It's speed reading range is not that wide compared to pro's gun.
    Of course it varies by 15+ MPH unless you hit the ball directly toward speed gun.
    It varies with your hitting angle and ball's trajectory.
    It will read your groundies much slower than actual speed if you are loopy top spin hitter.
    I can't complain with $130-affordable-radar-gun.
     
  26. psv255

    psv255 Professional

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2011
    Messages:
    963
    Location:
    NY
    Not sure if it sucks, but did the frame count and Speedtrac on the same 2 FHs and came up with 77 frame count 71 radar, and 75 frame count 73 radar. So my unit underestimates in the 3-7% range, or frame count overestimates by up to 8% relative to each other.
     

Share This Page