How fast do recreational players serve?

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Steady Eddy, Mar 19, 2014.

  1. Fintft

    Fintft Hall of Fame

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    Kudos! And stupid me agrees with you and envies you at 6'2" and 225lbs (blah need to lose at least 10lbs).
     
  2. TCF

    TCF Hall of Fame

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    He already clarified, the 110 was a parlor trick in a fastest serve event. Its nothing like a real serve in a real match. he is estimating in a real match he would be "in the 90s". Tennis is about averages, its a percentage game. The only serve that matters is the one you can win with.

    I have been around the block a bunch of times. Everyone overestimates their match worthy serves. Like I have said several times, if he were in a real competitive match, his '100 mph serves' would very likely be accurately measured to average in the 80s.
     
  3. Topspin Shot

    Topspin Shot Legend

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    There's a big difference between what somebody can hit and what their match speed is. For me, it can be up to 30 mph, just on first serves.
     
  4. RoddickAce

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    Agreed, and the average speed will also vary depending on what type of first serve one is hitting.

    A lot of times, it simply isn't strategically sound to blast flat serves over and over again because returners can adjust after a game or two.
     
  5. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    Can a top tier National level 3.0 bagel a 2.5?
     
  6. zaph

    zaph Rookie

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    Slower than they think, I have played against the odd deluded soul who thinks they have 100, 110 or even faster serve.

    It was no were near that quick. My simple rule is, if I have time to take a swing against a serve, it aint that quick.

    Most rec players serve 90 at most, may be a few make a 100.
     
  7. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    I totally agree, if you have time to take even a shortened swing, the serve is not over 100.
    But what about this? I've served to some 5.0's and 4.5's who stand one foot behind the baseline, and chip the return, or block it, off my first flat serves.
    Abba of former Harvard No.2 singles did the same, he did not try a shortened groundie off my fastest serves.
    Now, assuming, that word again, that most players today would rather hit groundies than volleys with a continental grip, why do you suspect those player's chip and block my fastest serves? They do try somewhat shortened groundie strokes off my second serves.
     
  8. Steady Eddy

    Steady Eddy Hall of Fame

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    Of course, because even if the players are evenly matched, and suppose serving allows no advantage, (not an unreasonable assumption at this level), mathematics says that one out of 32 sets will be a bagel for one player simply by chance.

    There's an interesting asymmetry in sports. If the competition is lopsided the score will be lopsided, but the converse is not true, i.e. evenly matched teams do not always have close scores. Sometimes chance takes over.
     
  9. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    Should Basalt be banned from the sport? Does it give an unfair advantage to unscrupulous players? What if they made Basalt baseball bats? Would George Brett get busted again? These are a sampling of the horribly wrong things I am thinking about today.
     
  10. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    It's not chance...
    It's the normal ups and downs, call it what you want, of everything in life.
    We cannot produce our best days time after time.
    We also cannot produce our worse days every time.
    That accounts for 6-1, 1-6, 6-1 scores in tennis.
    And why the Pacers, Heat, and Spurs can lose to bad teams.
     
  11. Chas Tennis

    Chas Tennis Hall of Fame

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    I read somewhere that a stated purpose of the Internatioinal Federation of Tennis is to test equipment, ball and courts, etc so that tennis remains a good sport (or some such wording). I believe that their decisions will have a lot of impact on what is allowed.
    http://www.itftennis.com/technical/rackets-and-strings/overview.aspx

    If any technology would upset the sport the ITF has a philosophy of keeping the sport a good one. I've seen their policy stated somewhere, it seemed reasonable and I liked it.

    The quick ITF outlawing of spagetti string rackets comes to mind.
    http://engineeringsport.co.uk/2010/01/19/revenge-of-the-spaghetti-strings/

    The string advances in the last 10 years were apparently not considered game changing enough. Judgement call I guess.

    A friend of mind once said to me that the equipment and other things associated with any sport have to be defined........ seems very reasonable.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2014
  12. tennis_ocd

    tennis_ocd Hall of Fame

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    If by not that many you mean none I'll agree ;) You have a nice serve but I simply am not ready to believe any 3.0 has a 110 mph serve. None. The technique required for that speed is simply beyond that of a new player....

    Take a 17 yo kid with a very strong arm. Baseball all his life; no tennis. 90 mph fastball. If handed a racket by the time he developed the technique for a 110 mph serve he'd be well beyond 3.0. My goodness, there are atp top 100 world players that don't have 110 mph serves.
     
  13. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    There are NO top 100 ATP players who can't serve over 110. Even DonaldYoung, Somedev, on old Rochus/Barrasetchi have serve much faster AT TIMES!
    You read an "average", like Connors or Mac, and think that's their fastest serve. It is NOT. Mac can serve into the 120's, as can Connors and Agassi, even though their match "average" is 107 or so.
     
  14. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    Yes its about you leeD. Always about you.
    They chip your serves back because if they hit a proper return you can't get to it. Stop trolling and trying to insinuate you have some heater serve. Get over yourself.
     
  15. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Of course it's about me, I"m posting and agreeing with a fellow TW poster, using an example from my EXPERIENCE to reinforce his thread.
    Everything I know is about ME, because it's what I recall that counts, not something I heard or read about.
    Me, me me me.
    You know, YOU only post about ME ME ME, so why shouldn't I post about me?
    At least 2/3rds of YOUR posts are about ME ME ME.
     
  16. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    Whatever major loser.
    I post in response to your boasting because your annoying. And frankly you ruin ttw.
    Maybe go in your van and go wind surfing for awhile and leave ttw to tennis players.
     
  17. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    YOU never talk about tennis! You hardly ever answer about any tennis tips and instruction.
    All YOU do is snipe and whine like a little girl.
    I answer lots of posts, besides your whining posts about me.
    I give good advice more often than I answer your whinny posts.
    And of course, I often give advice that the OP would not understand, but I have played tennis longer than most of yous, and have played competitive sports longer than almost all of yous.
     
  18. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    I don't bother with tips because im not in the business of teaching. I argue with you because while you give tips they are hardly worth anything more than look at how fast leeD can serve. Great tips.

    Also I have no need to have ttw know my tennis experience or knowledge. Which are light years beyond you I might add. You don't have to take my word for it. Papa mango and shroud can vouch to this fact.
     
  19. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    You don't know Papa or Shroud. You lie instead.
    Can your swear you have contacted either? NOPE, you lie.
     
  20. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    I am friendly with papa and shroud. We have been playing at the other tennis courts besides the magical san Pablo because we like to make fun of you. Ask them yourself.
    Shroud told me yesterday that your serve was around 50mph average but he didn't have the heart to tell you.
     
  21. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Do you want to get married?
    Your obsession with me is beyond understanding.
    You lie constantly, and yet you accuse me of stretching some facts.

    You haven't ever communicated with either Shroud or PapaMango.
     
  22. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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    About the same speed as Andy Murray's 2nd serve
     
  23. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    Sorry but I am married and not a homosexual. Its fine if you are I don't judge.
    I spoke to papmango and the 12 year old girl you play with yesterday. They both said your sorta weird. And your serve sucks.
     
  24. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    LeeD would crush younger 4.0s on the rise based on his experience on the court and the ttw forum.
     
  25. dizzlmcwizzl

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    Being able to hit 100 mph serves and regularly hitting 100 mph serves are two different things altogether.

    I have the fastest serve of almost anyone I know. Even if my biggest serves were in the 110 range, I rarely hit it that hard in play. I bet the difference between my hardest serve and what I routinely hit as first serves is close to 20 mph.

    I would rather hit spots and use more spin. And the game is more fun if I have a high 1st serve percentage ... at least the other guys get to return it.

    Mostly I use the heater for chin music when some one gets the bright idea to step in on me.
     
  26. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    I think with leeDs goat ttw posting experience he would beat young rising 5.0 players. and older 5.5 players. The 12 year old girls he plays with almost exclusively has prepared him for domination.

    I also think papamango and shroud vouches for this as well.
     
  27. jussumman

    jussumman Semi-Pro

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    lol I think it's way before. Now if they did that challenge things would be different.
     
  28. President

    President Legend

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    arche3 vs LeeD is the best rivalry around these days. I think arche3 is asian-american too, am I correct? Maybe he is trying to usurp Lee's position as the best older asian tennis player on these boards.
     
  29. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    Yeah I'm Chinese. :)
    LeeD is a disgrace to asians on ttw. I feel a moral and cultural obligation to thwart the cancer that is leeD on ttw.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2014
  30. President

    President Legend

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    ^You guys NEED to play a match at some point. Maybe next time Lee visits the east coast. Get it on film.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2014
  31. tennis_ocd

    tennis_ocd Hall of Fame

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    Take a guy like Filippo Volandri. High of 25 in world. The guy will average under 100 firsts in a match; only occasionally breaking 110. 3.0's are not hitting 110's during a match. No way; no how.
     
  32. tennis_ocd

    tennis_ocd Hall of Fame

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    LeeD goats on ttw forum due to lefty dominant typing.
     
  33. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    Most of the top tier 3.0s in the Eastern Region are GOATing 110 - 115 serves consistently.
     
  34. HunterST

    HunterST Hall of Fame

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    Actually, I'd say you're much closer to ruining ttw than LeeD is. Who caused the thread to deraill, Lee or you? At least he's trying to help. You're just trying to argue.
     
  35. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    Yes im the downfall of ttw. Are you one of the guys that vouch for leeD? LeeD caused the derail by turning this thread to his fantasy tennis exploits. I just called him on it. But its fine if you don't agree. Considering I post only a few times a week I don't see how I can possibly ruin ttw. LeeD does have little groupies like you so I understand your concern.

    Some people get fooled by big words like top spin and lefty twist. Its ok if your enamored by the spell of leeD. Maybe you guys can practice together to beat the bryan brothers in doubles.

    Don't start arguments with me and I won't argue with you.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2014
  36. LakeSnake

    LakeSnake Semi-Pro

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    LeeD, may I suggest my good friend, IgnoreButton?
     
  37. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    One of the top 4.0s in manhattan has a mean lefty twist that exposes the pure weakness of the lower echelon 3.5 1HBH slice return.
     
  38. Spin Doctor

    Spin Doctor Professional

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    If I had never come on this forum I would have guessed my serve to be appox 1/2 the speed of a pro. So maybe 60mph.

    I don't believe anyone here is AVERAGING anything in triple figures IN A MATCH and LANDING IN THE SERVICE BOX.
    A one-off serve during solo practice, maybe. But averages in matchplay? Not likely.

    The stats for pros are AVERAGES in a pressure filled situation.
     
  39. GuyClinch

    GuyClinch Hall of Fame

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    One-off? Drakulie could hit 4 or 5 in a row no problem and he posted it here on video. What more do you want?

    I think you overestimate the difficulty in a big serve. Any HS pitcher or football QB worth his salt will be able to hit 100 mph serves with some practice.

    Do I think that 65 year old men are hitting 110 MPH serves in matches? On that I am dubious - but its not impossible..
     
  40. GoudX

    GoudX Professional

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    I could average triple figures fairly easily on the first serve if I was happy with a fairly easy to predict 40% consistency serve. Frankly I do a lot more damage using variety than pace: my 80mph slice serve which flies outside the tram lines, my 70mph kicker which bounces over head height and my 90mph slice-pace or kick-pace serves which are very hard to read before the serve is on top of you, will do a lot more damage than unchanging 105mph flat serves. I will occasionally blast a flat serve in the 110s+ to stop opponents crowding the bounce, but I need to bring my consistency/accuracy right down so that I am only getting around 25% in the box, aiming right at the middle, in order to do that.
     
  41. maggmaster

    maggmaster Hall of Fame

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    I hit primarily topspin serves and have a radar( one of the cheap ones) my match serve is about 75 with spin, my flatter slice is 80-85. If I am trying to hit as hard and flat as possible I can get up over 100 but I never do that in a match, I find that if I am serve and volleying the ball just gets on me too fast. Again this is all based on my cheapo radar.
     
  42. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    The top 68 year old 3.5 in Westchester has been clocked at 105. Dude is an effing monster. Would shred most 5.0s in 8 game pro-sets on slippery dry green clay.
     
  43. mxmx

    mxmx Semi-Pro

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    By your own words, here is why averages matter:

     
  44. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    WHAT does average matter?
    If you fastest is 105, you use it when it's needed.
    To set up the 105, you hit 75 mph slices wide, and 65 twists wide the other side, so you bring the reciever IN to be susceptible to your 105 into his body.
    105 is needed.
    76 is needed.
    65 is needed, if you want to WIN points off your serve.
    Average means nothing, NOTHING.
     
  45. HunterST

    HunterST Hall of Fame

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    So if I don't like how you follow LeeD around and try to argue with him in every thread that makes me his "groupie?" Talk about a jump in logic.

    This has nothing to do with LeeD's claims. The point is that you try to turn every thread into a "Bash LeeD" fest. Like his posts or not, Lee's are ON TOPIC. Your posts almost never are.

    You're seriously delusional if you think LeeD speaking on the topic in a way that you find annoying is derailing the thread more than you blatantly changing the topic.

    So, yes, you "calling Lee out" on every other thread makes you more likely to ruin the board than LeeD.

    Oh, and before you imply that I am "fooled by big words," you might want to brush up on your usage of "your" and "you're" and "its" and It's."
     
  46. WildVolley

    WildVolley Legend

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    What I've learned from this thread is that about half of amateurs can't hit over 80mph. Some amateurs can hit over 100mph even if they don't average close to that. There are a few elite amateurs who can hit 120mph or higher. There are rec players who are deeply offended that other rec players can hit over 100mph. Some people just want to fight with LeeD.
     
  47. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Tried a Becker grip flat first serve today. Continental with a slight twists towards eForehand.
    I'd been having trouble with the wide out duece court flat serve, using my normal conti grip. Me lefty.
    What a revelation! Must have got 60% IN, most going past the startled or diving returner. And all the misses were net cords or close calls OUT by less than a foot.
    I guess there's a time for slice serves, a time for weirdo grip serves, and a time for twist serves.
    Just hard to find the right time for which....
     
  48. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    Why does everyone try to correct peoples spelling when most are typing on smartphones these days? Meh...

    I get you have white knight syndrome and want to rescue leeD. I applaud your chivalry but I dont think leeD will date you.

    So start arguing and defending leeD when I call him out. I have no issues with your king Arthur to leeDs gwenevere. Carry on sir knight.

    I don't want to keep arguing with you but if you insist im game.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2014
  49. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    Hey leeD is your arms all tingling because your knight is defending your honor?
     
  50. Maximagq

    Maximagq Banned

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    I estimate that rec players on average serve 70 mph.
     

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