How good are these players? (Now, of course)

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by Brock, Jan 16, 2010.

  1. Brock

    Brock New User

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2008
    Messages:
    53
    #1
  2. nfor304

    nfor304 Banned

    Joined:
    May 4, 2009
    Messages:
    1,455
    I would say high div 1 college, or if they were still pros ranked around 600-1000 and playing futures
     
    #2
  3. OHBH

    OHBH Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2009
    Messages:
    590
    I don't see a D1 college player beating either of these two. Courier may have lost a step to age but the tactical ability and court sense of a seasoned top ATP pro, and the strokes are much better.
     
    #3
  4. DNShade

    DNShade Professional

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2007
    Messages:
    1,197
    Location:
    Hollywood Hills and San Luis Obispo (home of TW)
    They both still hit a real nice ball. You have to remember that these guys still have the smarts - match mentality. That doesn't really go away. So if they are healthy and keep their games sharp - they can still compete at high levels - easily D1 and can hang with current ATP players pretty well. The mental edge that makes a champion and champion is a HUGE factor. That's something that all the talk about new sticks, strings and all that stuff that gets focused on out here seems to miss. Once you get to a certain level - so much of the match is between the ears.

    Age takes it toll on cumulative days play and recovery and as matches go on into three sets and beyond. But for a set or two they can hang. Same reason 50 y/o JMac can still play almost anyone tight for a set or two if he's on - or Pete can take sets off (or even win) current players.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2010
    #4
  5. Datacipher

    Datacipher Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    Messages:
    4,611
    The replies are in the correct ballpark!

    OP, have you seen many low D1's playing that relaxed, that far within themselves? Yes, they're a bit rusty, yes, they have little intensity here, but at any given time, they could play some serious tennis. At their best, they could play, for a few games, or a few sets, ATP level tennis, but they're a bit rusty, so the level would fluctuate down into futures/high college at times, particularly because they have absolutely nothing to prove anymore.
     
    #5
  6. mental midget

    mental midget Professional

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2008
    Messages:
    1,434
    agreed. courier still plays a bunch of tennis, not sure about chang, but for pete's sake, we're talking about two guys who were among the best players on EARTH not too awful long ago. a big-hitting d1 player going for broke and having a good day would make it respectable, but over the long run, these guys would take out any college player, anywhere. just a different animal altogether.
     
    #6
  7. nfor304

    nfor304 Banned

    Joined:
    May 4, 2009
    Messages:
    1,455
    A player like Devaarman, Ben Becker, Kevin Anderson, or Isner during their college years would do well against them for sure. Dont forget these guys are not playing regularly and are almost 40 years old.
     
    #7
  8. 35ft6

    35ft6 Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2005
    Messages:
    6,557
    I would think these guys could still do very well in the Futures. Seriously doubt they could win a Challenger. Maybe if they trained hard for it. But get to the semis? Wouldn't surprise me that much I guess.
     
    #8
  9. d3tennis

    d3tennis New User

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2010
    Messages:
    12
    Location:
    D3Tennis.com
    Guys that were close to being the top players in the world in their prime. Both are 15 years removed from that. They could still be top collegiate players, but they would not hold up to the speed of the game. Courier could still blast his way through the draw, but Chang's only real weapon was his wheels. Those are gone.
     
    #9
  10. Brock

    Brock New User

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2008
    Messages:
    53
    Quick Edit

    I agree with D30's post but I do have to revise my post to saying that they are mid-high (closer to high) D1- after reading some posts about how experience plays a huge role. I agree with that, however, I still don't see them beating, Alex Clayton, or Somdev Devvarman just because of age, and that, as you could see, although they weren't playing hard (and chang was not near his 89 FO form), I don't think they'd really be able to hang in there with all the long rallies of the game- I think that again, because of age and speed, they'd wind up to resorting to just serving-and-volleying, hitting going-for-broke shots, hitting out more on, serve, and simply doing whatever it takes to try and win the points as quick as possible. And, at least whenever I find myself doing that, I know I've been outmatched.
    So, to conclude, I say around very low-low 6.0 (Meaning being able to take Robert Farah to three, or lose in two very close sets).
     
    #10
  11. Datacipher

    Datacipher Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    Messages:
    4,611
    You're still underestimating them. They are rusty but their games were simply on completely different levels to an Alex Clayton. When they were at his stage of development, they were winning grand slams and at the top of the atp tour. Clayton is a fine player, but they are exponentially more talented.
     
    #11
  12. 35ft6

    35ft6 Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2005
    Messages:
    6,557
    True. I should have made a distinction between the two. Courier could still win some cheap points with his first serve. Still think Chang could win a round or two in a Challenger, though. He would have to train a while. His game would be different for sure.
     
    #12

Share This Page