How has Nadal's injuries inflated his nearest competitors' careers?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by DRII, Apr 27, 2013.

  1. DRII

    DRII Legend

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    Nadal already enjoys a winning record against all of his greatest peers, something no one else can claim, even though he's been burdened by injuries, some pretty serious, throughout his career.

    Imagine if Nadal had the health and longevity of Federer; how would Federer's, Nole's, and Murray's record have been further affected (particularly in slam and master's titles)?
     
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  2. Flash O'Groove

    Flash O'Groove Hall of Fame

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    It depends. If Nadal could play like it does without being injured, we all know the answer.

    But we all know that he is injured because of his style. I guess it's not overreaching to consider that playing RG with bad knees, with the intensity he always shows, was not the most clever move in the long time.

    Nadal know from the beginning that his playing style and his knees are not friendly. He has chosen the playing style, and he pay it regularly with injuries. It will be more expensive in the future.
     
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  3. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    Failthread. Nadal knew exactly what he was doing and his injuries were perfectly predictable.
     
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  4. Cup8489

    Cup8489 Legend

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  5. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    Nadal has won those matches by chasing down every ball like his life depends on it. By bringing crazy intensity to every match. If you play like that you're going to suffer.

    Hypothetically if Nadal hadn't had so many injury breaks I'd probably be expecting him to be winding down more now anyway. He may have won Wimbledon 2009 but I don't see too many more slams being his otherwise.
     
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  6. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    But Nadal has to sacrifice his body for all of his achievement. If he doesn't, he would remain healthy but wouldn't have won 11 slams. It's the cause and effect...take your pick.

    Also, the injuries are grossly exaggerated(and excuses to discredit the winners), and not that he's the only player on the tour who's suffering physically. Some players had surgery(e.g. Hewitt, Del Potro, Davydenko). Nadal didn't need any surgery during his 7 months layoff.
     
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  7. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    Djesus plays like that so why isn't he injured all the time?
     
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  8. Hitman

    Hitman G.O.A.T.

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    100% correct.

    You want to poke a lion in the eye? Go ahead, but expected to get swallowed whole.
     
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  9. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    I don't think Djokovic is as intense as Nadal. I expect Djokovic to be injured at some point though. Nadal has more miles on him due to being an early bloomer as well.
     
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  10. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    this ...

    Just one thing though, the guys you mentioned aren't even the worst affected by injuries.

    You had far worse cases with krajicek, cash, haas etc ...
     
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  11. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    not as much as nadal , no ... for starters , he doesn't run around his BH as much, not even close as he has a better FH-BH balance.

    but he too has had and will have his share of problems. for instance, in 2011, his performance dropped rapidly after the USO .
     
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  12. Nitish

    Nitish Professional

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    Last edited: Apr 27, 2013
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  13. 90's Clay

    90's Clay Legend

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    If Nadal wasn't injury prone then he would probably would have broken the slam record before Fed did

    What Hurt Nadal the most is he got injured during what should have been the PEAK of his career. The way he was playing from 2008-2010, barring injury he would have won 90-95 percent of those slams.

    2011 he started on a downhill turn (level wise) probably which the injuries precipitated. He was never the same after 2010

    Getting hurt during the peak of your career is a major hit. Imagine if Fed suffered injury during the 2005-2007 seasons. He would be wayy off the 17 slam mark right now.

    Nadal's prime should have been 2008-2012 but he was taken out by injuries twice

    Yea many will attribute that to his playing style. But people forget it he already had injury problems prior to ever joining the pro circuit.

    Djokovic also plays that similar style and hasn't suffered the injury problems like that. Some guys are just more injury prone then others.

    When I look back at Nadal's career i would say he should have been a hands down GOAT Candidate but injuries stopped that from happening
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2013
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  14. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    lol wut ??????

    nadal was just as good on grass and HC in 2011 as he was in 2010. he just happened to face djokovic 2.0 on the other side.

    @ the bold part, lulz, you think your idol's record is that easy to break ? good to know :lol:

    or maybe its just you hate fed so much for breaking your idol''s records to pieces. you'll do the same for nadal when he does touch/break your idol's major count ....
     
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  15. Goosehead

    Goosehead Hall of Fame

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    nadal trains at the same level he plays..intense and full on, that's what got him all his titles,

    unfortunately that approach to training and matches also gave him the injuries that damaged his career arc..

    so nadal could have eased off on the training and changed his approach to playing but he wouldn't have won all those titles.

    its a vicious circle, Its part of his OCD, he feels that he has to train the way he plays in order to win and won't give that routine up..

    training/playing intense..I think its an extension of rafa getting his bottles all neat and tidy and pushing his hair by his ears/picking his bum/rubbing his nose before every serve..the whole intense play/training/on court tics make him who he is and give him success...but also give him injuries.
     
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  16. Hitman

    Hitman G.O.A.T.

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    No Djokovic 2.0, Nadal could have swept up W 2011, USO 2011 and AO 2012. Giving him all four in a row. Him getting injured in 2012 can be partly attributed to the war he and Djokovic had waged against each other. That USO final was so brutal, neither player recovered fully for the rest of the season, and then when they went at it again, it was six hours of pain and punishment. Nadal's body had suffered from the those battles, and is a big reason that he missed two slams. And his slam count is where it is at currently.
     
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  17. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    nah, not 4 in a row. I think one of tsonga at wimbledon, federer at the USO or murray at the AO would definitely have stopped him, the latter two being more likely than tsonga ...

    but then doesn't change that his level was pretty high in 2011 on grass & hard .......( and of course AO in 2012 and clay in 2012 ), his level on clay in 2011 did dip, but only by his standards.

    speaking of the USO and AO final, I might be in the minority on this one, but the USO final felt more brutal intensity wise, they had to change directions faster on the faster USO surface ....
     
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  18. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Yeah, you can't have both way. Frankly I would rather have 11 slams with a tendinitis than having a perfectly healthy leg with little success.

    These are the real unfortunate one since they are underachiever. Nadal's problem isn't remotely close compare to them and he has accomplished a lot. His fans should be happy and stop whining.
     
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  19. Hitman

    Hitman G.O.A.T.

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    Notice how I said could have, and not would have. He might have been stopped, but one thing is for certain, he didn't have a mental complex against any of the players you mentioned, so that is plus for him. Ultimately, we will never know.

    I agree that USO final was more breathtakingly brutal.
     
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  20. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    Even with his injuries, Nadal is the most dominant top player. He has a winning head to head vs all of Fed, Djoko and Murray.
     
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  21. Mike Sams

    Mike Sams Legend

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    Simply put, if Nadal didn't play with maximum intensity as he does, he would not win anywhere near as many titles. He really has no choice.
     
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  22. Hitman

    Hitman G.O.A.T.

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    This is because Nadal is far more superior on clay, than the others are on their favorite surfaces when he plays them.
     
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  23. Nitish

    Nitish Professional

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    USO was definitely more brutal,I got tired watching it
     
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  24. monfed

    monfed Guest

    Padding up the H2H on clay certainly did no harm to Ralph now did it? :twisted:
     
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  25. kishnabe

    kishnabe G.O.A.T.

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    Nadal deserved his injuries for hoe he plays. So there no such thing as inflation of his competitor.

    If he played a less damaging style, not be injured but then again might not win as much.
     
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  26. Gonzo_style

    Gonzo_style Hall of Fame

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    yeah right, Murray and Nadal's pigeon Federer
     
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  27. tudwell

    tudwell Hall of Fame

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    You're so blind. Of course Federer gets injured, and he got injured even in his prime. In 2004, he tore his left thigh and had to miss Basel and Paris. In 2005, he hurt his ankle and had to miss Madrid, Basel, and Paris. He played the 2005 WTF and even some of the 2006 Australian Open in an ankle brace, for Christ's sake. Do you even watch tennis?
     
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  28. tudwell

    tudwell Hall of Fame

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    Or career-ending mono like Soderling and Ancic.
     
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  29. monfed

    monfed Guest

    For all this talk of Ralph being injured, he never has in any of those extended periods of being out of the game(09,12) had a major surgery like DelPotro, Kuerten, Soderling etc.
    Infact, Ralph comes back after almost a year like a fully recharged energiser bunny. :lol:
     
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  30. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    murray did beat him @ AO 2010. he was playing very well in AO 2012 and stretched djokovic to the limit fighting all the way. Why on earth wouldn't he have a decent shot vs nadal then ?

    federer was playing better than nadal @ USO 2011.

    nadal had to struggle like hell to get a set vs djokovic. federer was up 2 sets to love vs him and had MPs. This was with djokovic playing better in the semi ( especially serving ) - both djokovic and nadal weren't serving well at all in the final

    even the matchup angle doesn't account for that big a difference in the scorelines. federer was clearly playing better than nadal was ...

    federer in USO 2011 was playing pretty well , would have a pretty good chance vs nadal ...
     
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  31. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    true .....
     
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  32. Hitman

    Hitman G.O.A.T.

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    In 09 he missed Wimbledon, nothing else.

    All the top players take a month off after Wimbledon anyway before the USO series. People sometimes make it sound like he missed a tremendous amount of time in 2009. It looks like a long time because he got trounced early in RG, and then sat out W. But really, he only missed one big event.
     
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  33. Gonzo_style

    Gonzo_style Hall of Fame

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    I would give Tsonga better chance, he def Nadal before Wimbledon on grass, Federer is 2-8 vs Nadal, 0-2 on HC Majors

    You mention AO 2010 QF but Nadal def in-form Murray in USO 2011

    AO 2012 final Murray-Nadal? Nadal would have been a big favorite
     
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  34. Tennis_Hands

    Tennis_Hands Hall of Fame

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    Does the OP or the rest of the Nadal's and Sampras's fanboys (and girls :roll: ) have any proof of the severity of Nadal's injuries?

    Because, apart from the constant inane babbling from his camp and himself, there is no a single piece of evidence, that his injuries were as debilitating as the majority of his (and ironically Sampras's) fanboys are making them out to be.

    Did he have a surgery during the course of his career? No. Check

    Every time he returned, he was around the same level, he has been before his break (of course, corrected for the respective surface). Unlike for example Del Potro, who needed a full year to get to his previous level. Check

    His level on the different surfaces follows a pretty natural curve (not disrupted in any way by his "severe" injuries. Apart form his slight decline in his speed (which is perfectly normal) he doesn't display any signs of mechanical defficiencies, which WOULD occur, should he have a persisting problems with his body. Check

    Oh, and his rivals had their fair share of injuries as well. Gluten for Djokovic (if it is to be believed, that that solved his problems), Mono and bad back for Federer.

    The fact, that they didn"t miss out Majors doesn't mean, that they had less health issues than him. It is just that not every player is a *****, when he needs to take his health issues and psychological problems like a man.

    :cool:
     
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  35. abmk

    abmk G.O.A.T.

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    both HC major meetings were at the AO and federer was playing clearly better in US 2011 than he was at AO 2012 ... he atleast had his serve going in USO 2011 unlike in AO 2009 ....

    lopez also got nadal on grass @ queens in 2010. did that really matter that much ?

    tsonga's level varies far too much in comparison to federer/murray to say he'd have a better chance ....

    murray was so not in-form in USO 2011. he was well below par, which is why nadal defeated him convincingly, but still lost convincingly to djokovic.

    murray played far better at the AO in 2012 ( and the next year at the USO as well )

    65-35 to nadal in that final at max ( I'd say 60-40 ) , but definitely not more than that ... in a semi, would be close to 50-50 ....
     
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  36. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    Nadal has a winning H2H v every single player in the top 10 (and nearly everybody else besides)!
     
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  37. WhiskeyEE

    WhiskeyEE Legend

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    he wasn't injured. he skipped the fast court season because he can't win there anymore (not like he could to begin with). If anything, he is disrespecting the players, the fans, and the sport in a desperate attempt to inflate his own records (h2h).

    He wouldn't have winning records against many of the top 10 if most of their matches weren't played on clay.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2013
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  38. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    He doesn't have a winning head to head on hardcourt.
     
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  39. DRII

    DRII Legend

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    I largely agree, but Nadal already is a GOAT candidate overall even with his many injuries...
     
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  40. DRII

    DRII Legend

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    do you actually believe that BS that you took the time to type :confused:
     
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  41. DRII

    DRII Legend

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    dude, are you trying to troll?

    certainly if Nadal missed Wimbledon, the biggest slam in most people's eyes and one of Nadal's favorite tournaments that he was defending no less, he was obviously injured pretty badly in 09!

    what other proof do you need in Nadal pretty easily dismissing Soderling the very next year at RG...
     
    #41
  42. smoledman

    smoledman Legend

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    BS thread. Nadal doesn't win certain slams without red-lining his knees. Best case in point - 2009 AO.
     
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  43. moonballs

    moonballs Hall of Fame

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    I don't think his "decline" was caused as much by injuries as by Djokovich. The 7:0 dominance in 2011 was decisive. I don't think Nadal has a solution to the Djokovic problem except for clay matches, where they are more evenly matched.
     
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  44. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    So what? I know you Fedites and Djokotards like to subscribe to the mantra that clay doesn't count, but I am sorry to inform you that it does.
     
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  45. vladap

    vladap Semi-Pro

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    He's far from being dominant when Novak is in the picture.
    In their last 16 encounters he managed to beat him only 5 times.
     
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  46. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    What decline? He's on a 6 finals in a row streak. Some decline that is!
     
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  47. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    So dominant that he barely spent 100 weeks at no 1 compared to 300+ of Federer. Djokovic is going to catch up soon too.
     
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  48. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    Sure but unless Novak reverses the head to head stat, my point still stands.
     
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  49. NatF

    NatF G.O.A.T.

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    You're a joke of a poster. Don't make up strawman arguments and pin them to me in future. Even your fellow Nadal buttpickers are tired of your posts.

    I never said it doesn't count. I just think h2h should be broken down by surface. Saying look how good Rafa is he dominates his rivals is rather shallow, and doesn't take into account that he's much more likely to be beaten by them on hardcourt than he is on clay. If he leads 6-2 against player 'X' but he's won all 6 of his encounters on clay and lost both his meetings on grass then the 6-2 doesn't tell the whole story.

    That was my only point. If you didn't jump to conclusions and actually had some semblence of my posting history you'd be aware that I've actually elaborated on this view more than once.
     
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  50. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    He only dominated on clay, but overall, not quite. He never won over 90% in a year. Never was a force after the USO. Prime/peak Nadal never won 10+ event in a year.

    Oh and the way he abuses his body, he's lucky that still can play.
     
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