How honest are you?

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by TonyB, Nov 10, 2012.

  1. TonyB

    TonyB Hall of Fame

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    Seriously, I'm wondering just how honest most people are.

    In recent matches, I've given up points on:

    Touching the net with my foot before the ball bounced twice -- it really didn't matter because it was an overhead putaway, but my foot barely touched the bottom of the net after I hit the ball.

    Grazing a ball with my frame before my partner hit it for a winner (doubles). The slight touch of my frame didn't disrupt the ball's path. In fact, nobody else noticed that I even touched it at all.

    And today, while serving, down 0-30, I double faulted with a 2nd serve just barely missing the center line, but neither of my opponents (doubles) saw it. They both called it "good" because they couldn't see it and I called it "out" (because it really was), thus going down 0-40 and I went on to lose the game.


    Anyone else that honest around here?
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2012
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  2. Overheadsmash

    Overheadsmash Semi-Pro

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    I always call it like I see it, even it means a lost game, set, or match for me. If you get a reputation for being a cheat, no one will want to play tennis with you.
     
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  3. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

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    Generally honest, but if the opponents have been acting like ***** then I'll dick 'em back. Against people like that, you won't earn their respect by being honest, they'll just think you're a schmuck. Finding more and more, cheating cheaters and giving wacko back to wackos, works--they get that and respect you for being one of them--that honor amongst thieves thing.
     
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  4. dcdoorknob

    dcdoorknob Hall of Fame

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    I'm just confused how two doubles opponents who are receiving serve manage to not see your serve? In general don't think I'd overrule them, it's their call. People play serves that I think *may* have been out all the time (and sometimes even that I'm pretty sure were out), I've learned to just keep playing unless I see/hear a clear out call. If they get the return back and didn't call it out and I stop play they can often will just claim the point, which is perfectly reasonable for them to do.

    Does not make sense that "they didn't see it." What were they looking at instead then, exactly?
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2012
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  5. Bartelby

    Bartelby G.O.A.T.

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    You really should let the doubles non-returner call the serves, or at least that's what I was taught.
     
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  6. gmatheis

    gmatheis Hall of Fame

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    You are not supposed to call your own first serves out, only your second serves.
     
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  7. gmatheis

    gmatheis Hall of Fame

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    I'm pretty darn honest when I play, I will routinely call my own shots out that miss a line by less than an inch when my opponent might say something like "that was really close I'm gonna have to give it to ya". If I'm not sure that's ok but if I saw it then I don't take a point I didn't earn.

    I also often play opponents balls when they are within in inch or so out, because I don't want to end up making a bad call.
     
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  8. dizzlmcwizzl

    dizzlmcwizzl Hall of Fame

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    To the OP ... I have done all of those things at some point and called them on myself. However, I cannot promise I have called this on myself every time it has happened.
     
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  9. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    They call me Honest Abdul
     
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  10. TonyB

    TonyB Hall of Fame

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    It had a ton of spin and hooked in towards the center T. The netman didn't have a good angle on it, so it looked good. The returner was late to the ball and couldn't see it straight along the centerline, so he assumed it was good.

    But I had a direct view from where I was and I could clearly see that it was out by about an inch or so. No doubt about it.

    I've been hooked so many times in league matches that I probably should have just let the point go in my favor, but that's not how I play.
     
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  11. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    The real test of honesty is whether you will overrule your partner's line call.

    I played a match recently with a lady who tends to call lines while looking across them. Happens all the time with her. We were early in the first set, and she called a ball wide on the sideline when I was closer and looking down that line.

    Nope, sorry. I think it caught, so I gave them the point after discussing it with her.

    It would have been easy to say, "I'm going with my partner's call." But darn it, folks need to stop calling lines when they are not in good position to make the call. The only way to educate them is disagree and award the opponent the point.
     
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  12. Roforot

    Roforot Professional

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    Not sure about the last example. It's tough for me to see that ball w/ the centerstrap and if it's that close, I wouldn't complain if they called it out, but I wouldn't penalize myself if they thought it was in. On the other hand I have called out DTL shots where I had a good view of the ball vs. opponents who're perhaps giving me the benefit of the doubt when they're watching perpendicular to the spot.

    BTW, the score shouldn't matter as to whether you're honest or not.
     
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  13. cluckcluck

    cluckcluck Hall of Fame

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    I always try to call every shot as best as I can. If I didn't see it completely out, I'll play it. If it was completely out, I'll call it. I rarely argue with opponents on out calls, the most I've said in response to a bad call is "are you sure?"
    You never know when you're going to get a total a-hole on the other side who would chase you down and beat you with his racquet.
     
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  14. Rozroz

    Rozroz Legend

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    how can anyone really enjoy a game if cheating or even slightly cheating is beyond me.
    no fun at all.
     
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  15. dcdoorknob

    dcdoorknob Hall of Fame

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    So it wasn't "unsighted", you just think they missed the call. You seem awfullly sure of yourself that it was out, even if only by an inch. I'm very seldom *that* sure on a ball that close (especially since I'm not usually seeing the center service line straight on from my vantage point either after I just served, were you not covering a cross court return at all?), so I'm unlikely to overrule my opponents call in that position. In general I think the receivers are pretty much always in better position to call the serve than the server, so even if I think it was an inch out, I'll just defer to whatever they actually call because I'm not going to be sure enough to overrule. (I would if it was really obvious I guess, but that situation really doesn't come up that I can remember).

    If it's a different situation, later in a point, and both opponents are like scrambling out of position and genuinely don't even get their heads around to call a ball, I'd call my own ball out if I thought it was out for sure, and I'd always be honest if asked whether I thought it was out or not regardless of situation, although again I can't remember even being asked that question on one of my own serves.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2012
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  16. OrangePower

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    I will call my own shots out if I'm sure. The most common scenario is attempted winner / passing shot down the line, where my opponent is looking across the ball while I have a good view of it. Most opponents will give me benefit of the doubt on a ball that is slightly out, but if I see it out, I will call it on myself.

    Having said that I would not be as quick to call a 2nd serve out, because typically I am still recovering from my service motion when the ball lands. I'm not tracking it through the air, and I don't get a very good look at it. So unless it's obvious to me, I'm going to rely on the opponent(s) to call it.
     
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  17. OrangePower

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    Ever called a footfault on yourself or your partner?

    Now that would be impressively honest :)
     
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  18. sphinx780

    sphinx780 Professional

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    Anytime I'm playing singles and have a clearer look down the line, I'll call a miss.

    USTA dubs match recently, my partner called a second serve to him out, which would have given us the break and a chance to serve for the match, I corrected it good, they went on to hold.

    If I see it, I call it. If it's close and I'm unsure I go in my opponents favor as it should be.

    If I'm going to win, I'm going to win on my merit, not my calls.
     
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  19. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Curious: was this a center line call, a sideline call or a service line call?

    There is almost no chance I will overrule my partner on a serve call of out if she is looking down that line and I am looking across it. If she has the better view, how can I possibly be sure she is wrong?
     
    #19
  20. schmke

    schmke Professional

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    I'm glad to see this attitude exhibited by many of the folks responding to this thread. My wife and her mixed partner unfortunately were not so lucky last night.

    Serving at 5-6, 15-30 in the second set of a USTA match, my wife, let's call her Sue, hits an ace that is pretty clearly on the line, the female receiving, let's call her Pam, calls it out, the male partner doesn't. My wife's partner, let's call him Bob, protests (this was not the first questionable call they'd made, things were boiling over) and the receiving female says "play 2". Bob says if they are unsure or correcting the call to in, it is Bob and Sue's point, so the female says, "ok, it was out then, 2nd serve". Sue proceeds to hit a serve deep in the corner, several inches inside the side line and service line, there is clearly space between the ball and the lines, and yep, you guessed it, Pam calls it out again.

    Next point Bob hits a volley deep in the court that appears to catch the baseline, but yep, you guessed it, it was called out. This wouldn't have been so bad except the entire match was filled with questionable to blatantly bad calls, most on aces or clear winners they didn't have a play on. My wife and her partner refused to stoop to their level and squeeze them back so there wasn't much to be done. Folks playing on the court next to them said after the match all three balls were in so I'm pretty sure Bob and Sue weren't mistaken.

    Checking with the league coordinator afterwards I learned that they can ask for an impartial person to stand on the court and comment on calls when asked (or 1 person from each team), but these "commenters" can't make calls or correct them.

    Here's wishing for more honest players. A bad call or two because you honestly see it differently is fine or you chalk up to poor eyesight or wishful thinking. Approaching 10 blatant calls in a match is just too much.
     
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  21. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Guy returned my serve cross-court for an apparent winner. Ball rolls on our court during the point. I honestly called a let and replayed the point. Honesty pay dividends
     
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  22. sphinx780

    sphinx780 Professional

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    Service line, called deep. I agree that you should avoid overruling unless you have the best vantage point.

    Same with assuming a hooked call or not. A close baseline call can easily look out but catch line so I assume my opponent called well.
     
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  23. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

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    That sounds like a very interesting remedy, having an observer present would probably quell the cheating even if they are not well sighted for a particular line. This would be an interesting area to explore how it would work out. So the impartial observer(s) can't make calls or correct them--but can comment on them--"They just cheated us!"--"No comment, but philosophically you may be correct, perhaps cheat them back, you don't go to hell for cheating in tennis (that we know of), good luck."
     
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  24. 3fees

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    I call it as I see it.
     
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  25. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Then I check the mark
     
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  26. SoBad

    SoBad Legend

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    The other day i was serving second serve match point down and as i hit the ball I noticed that the tip of my left shoe was touching the line. I immediately called a footfault on myself and conceded the point and the match. Then on my way home I found a quarter on the ground and took it to the police precinct to report the finding of the property.
     
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  27. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Honesty, it's overrated
     
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  28. SoBad

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    I don't know about that, but self-serving claims about own honesty, aired anonymously, on the other hand...:lol:
     
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  29. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Honestly???
     
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  30. SoBad

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    Sometimes, when I have a quiet evening to myself in the privacy of my home, I call the IRS and chat with the folks there about how to report various miscellaneous cash income that’s not on the books.
     
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  31. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    I'll drink to that
     
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  32. SoBad

    SoBad Legend

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    Every once in a while I call up social services to report myself for substance abuse and express concern for the safety and well-being of furniture and communication equipment inside my apartment.
     
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  33. will3689

    will3689 New User

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    Too honest most of the time. I must have lost so many points by playing on when the ball was out but if im not 100% sure the ball was out i play it.
     
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  34. tennisee

    tennisee Rookie

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    So; those of us who post here are honest.

    Posting about rules presupposes an interest in the rules, and generally that leads to a desire to follow the rules.

    But I don't think asking TW posters if they are honest can lead to anything other than self congratulatory posts by TW posters on their honesty.

    "On Saturday I had been calling very fairly all match, until I hooked my opponent at 5-6 in the second set tiebreak. It was a ball that landed on the baseline and I called it out. It gave me a second chance and I closed out the match 14-12 in the TB. Had we gone to a third I was cooked."

    Did I?

    I am actually 100% certain that my out call was correct, but my opponent gave me a look that indicated he disagreed.

    Our match was cordial throughout - no bad blood. I think that he wanted that point so much that he really wanted to see the ball as in, and that's how he saw it.

    He could equally say of me that I so wanted to stay in the set that I saw it out when it was in.

    I made the right call, as I was certain of it, but that's a long way from saying my view is the only one.
     
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  35. Alchemy-Z

    Alchemy-Z Hall of Fame

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    My partner made a bad call one time in a tournament and I had an okay look at it and felt like it was good. The guy who hit it was at the net right in front of it and showed no sign of it being a miss. Also I knew him very well and he is not a cheat. they started to argue about the call I and my partner said "it my call doesn't matter if it's in or out...and wanted to argue with me as well.

    it was my service game so we continued play my next serve I hit the ball into the net...and the next serve terribly long and then held a thumbs up to the other team at which they nodded and we went back to duece a played normally from then on.

    at the end my partner apologized and no one left with hard feelings and the other team thanked me for squaring things up with my serve. (it was my only double fault all day)
     
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  36. Tennusdude

    Tennusdude Rookie

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    Is anyone else surprised at how far out the ball can be in pro tennis matches and the player will still challenge the call? It makes me wonder how they made calls in the juniors when it was solely up to them. I used to drive a junior to many of his matches. I saw fair amount of cheating going on including on return of serve by doing the following. The returner would go for a winner even if the first serve was out. If they made the winner they would call the ball in, if they missed they would call it out. I asked the junior player who I was driving to the tournaments about this and he told me it was a common practice. There were also a fair amount bad line calls. The junior players seem to expect it. It is a real shame in my opinion. Has anyone else witnessed this sort of behavior in the juniors? or even any organized tennis team play?
     
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  37. SwankPeRFection

    SwankPeRFection Hall of Fame

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    I correct incorrect line calls on myself.

    I stop the point if I've nicked a ball that flew past me.

    I reward points if I've hit the net.

    I try very hard not to cross over the net with my racket to hit a ball that's not crossed into my side of the court first.

    I don't foot fault like all the other league players out there, but at the same time I try not to make a big deal out of it for others at the local level. I do mention it to them to watch it if they ever make it to legit tournaments and/or state finals, where it could be a problem. Now, if you're foot faulting into the court by a foot or more, I'll call you on it, but again, I start by telling you first and if things get really bad, I'll make it a point to make a big deal over it, but I've never taken points on someone who's just egregious on doing it. I just won't play with them anyone if they're not going to fix their foot-faulting issues.

    If you're an advanced player, I don't call lets when a ball that I know for sure you've seen roll on the court once an aggressive point is under way. Usually both of us are advanced enough to not trip over a ball we know where it is and most of the time, I've seen weaker league players call lets when this happens just as the stronger player just ripped a winner which they knew they couldn't get to anyway, regardless of the lucky timing for the ball rolling onto the court and them calling a let.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2012
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  38. PrimeChoice

    PrimeChoice New User

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    hook em
    haaha
     
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  39. I Heart Thomas Muster

    I Heart Thomas Muster Semi-Pro

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    I'm nobody special in civilian life but on the tennis courts I am honest to the point of self destruction. If I can't be 100% certain it was out I call it in much to the chagrin of teams I have played on.

    Even when I'm being hooked I can't make my calls any other way. Not that I haven't contemplated it. I take a lot of pride in knowing I have not been accused of cheating in 20 years of tennis.

    That said I wish I wouldn't let cheaters mess with my head. I still struggle with that all these years later.
     
    #39
  40. Gonzalito17

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    You have to cheat a cheater to keep him honest. When in Rome do as the Romans.
     
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  41. I Heart Thomas Muster

    I Heart Thomas Muster Semi-Pro

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    10 LOL's at the office.
     
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  42. I Heart Thomas Muster

    I Heart Thomas Muster Semi-Pro

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    I never pass up a chance to pat myself on the back
     
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  43. InspectorRacquet

    InspectorRacquet Semi-Pro

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    Generally, I'm pretty lax on the rules and line calling. As long as my opponent isn't cheating, I don't cheat. When my opponent cheats, I cheat back the exact amount of times my opponent clearly cheated.

    It's not very honest on my part, but most of the time it gives them a wake-up call to say "I know you've been cheating, and I can do it, too."

    I try to be as honest as possible otherwise. I tend to give up too many points so I don't go home with a guilty conscience.
     
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  44. SwankPeRFection

    SwankPeRFection Hall of Fame

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    Did that rolling ball "really" interfere with your ability to get to that return and keep it from being a winner? If not, it's a cheap call... sorry.
     
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  45. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Juniors are very dishonest and deceitful.

    Adults are scrupulously fair and honest in all things big and small.
     
    #45
  46. Pickle9

    Pickle9 Semi-Pro

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    had a point in 3rd set super tb breaker that i lost 10-7 where i could have called the ball out but didn't. went for bh crosscourt topspin lob but didn't get enough of it so it just became a tough, high backhand volley which he hit for a sharp angle. when he first hit it, i though it was going way out but ended up being really close. i asked him if it was out and he said he thought it kissed the line. i asked "are you sure?" and he said definitely, so i gave him the point.

    definitely paying more attention next time, and if i think its out i'm calling it as such. so i guess i'm not honest, this was just a coincidence.
     
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  47. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

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    Their minds are not fully formed yet.
     
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  48. floridatennisdude

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    Had an opponent this weekend actually say to my doubles partner and I, "why are you guys so nice?" after we called a double bounce and had confirmed a couple of their line balls as good early in the match.

    However, when we came back to win 2-6,6-4,10-4 they weren't as cordial. After a few outbursts about how lucky a couple of net cord shots of ours were, one of my opponents smashed his racket into the light pole after match point.

    So, as honest as I am, I still get accused of being a bad sport when I get a couple bounces.
     
    #48
  49. NTRPolice

    NTRPolice Semi-Pro

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    You'd be surprised how far being "nice" (which in context here means playing according to the code) gets you. The only problem with playing "nice" is that everyone gets a little more "critical" the further (and closer) a match becomes.

    When you're wining 5-0 they will usually just give you "everything". If they come back to 5-5 then the lines become skinnier; court becomes smaller, bodies become bigger; the clock starts to tick, between points and changeovers; feet become happy, stepping into the court, ect.

    I'm a little too honest. It's why some people cant play doubles with me. I will overrule them, or give away points if its not called quickly or if there is hesitation. But, the ones who know me know, that if that courtesy isnt extended back, I have a lot of ways I can get "even".

    I have a slight tendency to bean people on complete accident. I have a large tendency to bean people on purpose in response to cheating. Even if I dont actually hit them, it usually does the trick.
     
    #49
  50. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    I am so honest that I point out foot faults in matches I am not playing in.
     
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