How important is stretching?

Discussion in 'Health & Fitness' started by RCizzle65, Aug 17, 2012.

  1. RCizzle65

    RCizzle65 Hall of Fame

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    I don't stretch before I play tennis, the only times I have are when my high school/college coaches made the team stretch beforehand, but I don't do it any other time. I remembered that Agassi didn't stretch, but he was plagued with injuries late in his career, was that due to not stretching?
     
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  2. MostDope

    MostDope New User

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    Well a player at my club who usually stretches before playing wasmrunning late and didnt stretch. An hour into olaying she turned the wrong way and tore her ACL. I would say its pretty important to loosen up.
     
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  3. Marius_Hancu

    Marius_Hancu G.O.A.T.

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  4. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    +1

    ........
     
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  5. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    +1, after playing a hard match and you start to feel twinges of tightness.
    Before, your routine, whatever makes you feel ready, from McDonald's Cheeseburgers to yoga, keep it consistent.
    Injuries can happen whether you are loose or not.
    I played 3 years of high school football, never stretching, but did warmups by running. Played OLB and tight end, 2 positions with violent high speed contacts. Got knocked out a few times, but never a physical injury.
     
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  6. TCF

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    Exactly. We see people show up and start to play with no warmup, or do a crazy pre play stretching routine with no warm up, etc.

    As Mr. Hancu says, warm up pre play, stretch as part of your cool down period.
     
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  7. maverick66

    maverick66 Hall of Fame

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    I think if you have the time stretch, warm up, than play. I am not sold as much as I used to on the dont stretch.

    As someone that suffered from tight hamstrings and calfs I had to stretch.

    I agree with Mike Boyle when he said any power loss they believe you get from stretching is well gone by the time you finish warming up.
     
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  8. ATP100

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    Easy Answer: Very Important
     
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  9. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    I'm certainly not against stretching before exercise, but I still would not stretch cold muscles. In high school track, the routine was to warm-up with light jogging, maybe 400-800 meters, stretch, do the workout, cool down with a ~400 meter jog, then stretch.

    I had no problem with that, but decided that **I** really didn't need to stretch before the workout. But if you are tight and it helps, then that is the way to go.

    I need to stretch after exercise or I get stiff and have a tendency to cramp. Just a personal thing. I know plenty of people that never stretch and are just fine.

    I've come to believe that with regard to stretching, everyone is going to be different. You just need to experiment and find what works best for you.
     
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  10. The Meat

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    I think its important to do Dynamic stretches, rather than Static stretches. From what I've heard from my coach Static has a higher probability of weakening your muscles and when your out on court your more prone to injuries.
     
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  11. TCF

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    I think you meant warm up, stretch, then play? I do not think any expert would advise to stretch first while the muscles are cold.

    We normally warm the kids up, stretch, then play. Followed by a cool down at the end that includes some additional stretching.
     
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  12. maverick66

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    No I mean stretch first.

    This is gonna go round and round once again but just do what feels good to you. The anti stretch thing got overblown big time.

    I can remember in my tennis academy days that almost every kid had tightness. Especially in the hamstrings. Dynamic warm ups where not gonna fix that yet they did them every morning and afternoon.

    Yet I rarely saw them stretching out good or be stretched out.
     
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  13. Fee

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    At my age, I'll warm up first with some jogging, high knees, whatevers, then I'll stretch. No way I'm stretching cold muscles like that, I have enough health problems already.

    Definitely stretch afterwards as well, it's the best time for me to achieve maximum stretch depth and it really does help me feel better the next day.
     
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  14. Surecatch

    Surecatch Semi-Pro

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    I think it may depend on individual physical and age factors. In my forties, I do not stretch too much before a match. I tend to believe that for me, the story on static stretching being possibly detrimental is valid. I do just a few basic twists of the joints, swivel the hips a little, and bend over a couple times. That's it. I do make sure the muscles are warmed before match play.
     
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  15. TCF

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    Sorry, but your first statement is simply incorrect. I worked in the fitness industry for 30 years, coached every sport, and worked with some fine professionals.

    No one would advise to stretch a cold muscle, makes no sense and would lead to more injuries. ALWAYS warm up a muscle before stretching. It is as simple as that. Again, sorry, but stretching first is the worst advice I have ever read.

    I could post a bunch of studies but I doubt anyone reading this forum has any doubt that you never stretch first.

    http://www.functional-fitness-facts.com/exercise-myths.html

    ?You should never stretch cold muscles. Stretching cold muscles can cause injury, and several studies have shown that stretching cold muscles slightly decreases muscle strength and power for up to an hour after stretching. Warm up first, then stretch. Or stretch after your workout.?
     
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  16. floridatennisdude

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    The academy folks knew what they were talking about. You don't. TCF is correct, cold muscles shouldn't be stretched prior to exertion.

    Static stretching should be done when no exertion is followed. After excercise is good. Prior to sleep is great. Before excercise, movement prep is ideal. Jumping jacks and a light jog minimum. Dynamic movements targeted to the activity are better.
     
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  17. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

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    Agassi was plagued by a deformity that caused his spine to stiffen. He documents it in his book.

    As to the thread title...stretching is important. It is important in order to maintain a flexible, lean muscle composition. Timing of stretching is also important. Prior to a work out, your body needs to prepare for the exertion it will face. That is not obtained by touching your toes. But, if you stretch consistently every night before you go to bed your body will thank you.
     
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  18. maverick66

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    This is why stretching debates suck.

    You are incorrect I will leave it at that.
     
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  19. Talker

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    I took martial arts classes at two different schools awhile back.
    First thing we did was stretch at both classes, then did the usual warmups.

    Same thing in my yoga class, immediately went into stretches without any warmup.

    For tennis, I just hit around for 10 minutes and do mild stretches in between, that works best for me.
     
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  20. tennisplayer1993

    tennisplayer1993 Semi-Pro

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    very. i used to not stretch for matches. then i got a really really bad foot injury in 9th grade that forced me to sit out for the rest of the season. I landed awkwardly on my leg and scrapped my whole back of my ankle on the hard courts... it kept bleeding everyday through my socks and the tapes my coach put on. My coach said I could join the team the next year. But I ended up doing track for the rest of high school (forgot why though)
     
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  21. RCizzle65

    RCizzle65 Hall of Fame

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    Well my left groin has been hurting recently, I think it's been due to me adding knee bend to my serve, is that just due to me having a weak groin? Or not stretching?
     
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  22. Chas Tennis

    Chas Tennis Hall of Fame

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    Stretching for exercise & stretching to correct posture issues

    I believe

    1) Always warm up first, even for doing only stretches.
    ? ) Quick, light, dynamic stretching before exercise.......still undecided. ?
    2) Static stretching after exercise, especially for quads & hamstrings.
    3) Separate stretching to correct postural problems that, over time because of our lifestyles, have seen certain muscles become short & tight.
    4) When injured - Doing stretches or exercises designed for preventive conditioning when injured might make the injury worse or prevent the best healing.

    In particular, I discovered that my rectus femorus was tight/short and probably also that my piriformus is tight, based on the feel of the range of motion. The hip joint muscles are especially important for balance and movement. They affect performance. The hip muscles also affect the alignment of the knee. If the knee is misaligned the risk of injury & arthritis increases. I am sure that all joints that do not have the proper ranges of motion increase the risk of injury. Ranges of motions for the hip joint due to tight piriformus and tight rectus femorus are not easy to understand or evaluate. Finding medial specialist knowledgeable enough to properly evaluate your posture is not easy. I believe that a very considerable percent of the chronic joint conditions - attributed to aging - is not due to aging but to poor posture.

    Also, my calves need stretching.

    Bottom line for me is that the most important part of stretching is to correct postural problems that have resulted from my lifestyle.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Example, tight rectus femorus, this applied to me -

    Stretch the rectus femorus using the regular quad stretch with the hip in extension (extension - line between the trunk and upper has the leg back). Here is the reason and some special stretches for those with tight/short rectus femorus.

    http://www.mrtherapy.com/articles/article3.html

    Warning: Hip flexor stretches can put stress on the lower back.

    Example, tight calf muscles caused me plantar faciitis and mild Achilles pain.

    Make sure you stretch both the Gastrocnemius and Soleus. Most tennis players I see only stretch with a straight knee - that stretch can miss the Soleus.

    See http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=436205 reply #2
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Search injuries such as plantar fasciitis and Achilles for stretches to prevent these injuries.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2012
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  23. Chas Tennis

    Chas Tennis Hall of Fame

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    I got an injury there. I had warmed up on the seated lat pull down machine using lighter weights (40%? 1 rep max.) and thought that I had warmed up all necessary muscles. Then I went to near 1 rep max. weight and gave a very hard pull. It was the only pull that lifted me off the seat and stressed the muscles/tendons that keep my trunk and upper leg at 90°. I felt an immediate slight pain. These muscles had been missed in my warmup. That was the only time that I recall ever getting an immediate injury because I was not properly warmed up.

    I did not know if I had a muscle/tendon pull or a hernia. The slight injury, just noticeable, lingered for almost a year, then it disappeared.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2012
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  24. movdqa

    movdqa Legend

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    One stretch that I do is on the tennis court. Just before serving, I lift the left arm up as in a ball toss and hold it stretched for a moment. Then I drop the right arm down with the racquet in hand. Then I bring the racquet to the back scratching position and grab the top with my left hand and pull down. And finally I put the racquet in the position where it would normally strike the ball for the serve and stretch the arm up there. Then I take practice serves.

    I have done that for many years and it's gotten rid of any issues related to warming up on serves.

    Tennis uses the back muscles a lot and stretching those (I like to grab the back of my knees while sitting on a chair and pull the stomach and chest into the knees) before a match can help to loosen you up.
     
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  25. superfittennis

    superfittennis New User

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  26. TheTsongaKid

    TheTsongaKid Banned

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    Stretching afterwards is good, not really before.
     
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  27. fuzz nation

    fuzz nation Legend

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    Although a lot of opinions about warming up are in transition these days, I'm beyond my "warrior years" now at age 46, so I'm trying to keep myself more healthy more often.

    I've seen significantly better recovery from day to day when I deliberately stretch well immediately after I'm done on the courts. Even before I get in my car to head home, I try to hit the fundamentals which include my quads, lower back, calves, etc. If I also get a decent stretch right before bed, I routinely feel better when I put my feet on the floor in the morning.

    I also think it's smart to get my muscles and cardio "switched on" before I go full speed on the courts, but I don't use the same warmup routine every day.
     
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  28. Surecatch

    Surecatch Semi-Pro

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    To clarify though, I think that stretching is greatly beneficial as a general practice. I'm rehabbing my back and shoulder right now and I stretch for about fifteen minutes three times a day, some days. I at least do it in the mornings and in the evenings. It is not only greatly beneficial to my overall condition, it feels really good too.

    I highly recommend safe daily stretching, regardly of match schedule, etc..
     
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  29. RCizzle65

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    Hmmmm, so could my groin injury be due to not stretching?
     
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  30. luishcorreia

    luishcorreia Professional

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    I took the leve I tennis coach course this year, and one of the things the instructor told us (and he's a university teacher and does research), is that, statistically, there is no evidence that someone that does not do warm up, has more injuries than someone that does.

    It does not mean that you shouldnt do warm up, because it also prepares you for the workout (e.g. performance), but it appears to have no correlation to the number and severity of the injury.

    I have no info. about the streatching..
     
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  31. Chas Tennis

    Chas Tennis Hall of Fame

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    I've consistently heard just the opposite, always warm up. Do you have some links discussing this point or the statistics?
     
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  32. luishcorreia

    luishcorreia Professional

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    Like I said, the recommendation is to always warm up. But what they found is that players that do not warm up using physical exercises do not have more injuries.

    I was surprised too. I always heard "always warm up". But its just a statistic... its not a recommendation.

    I always warm up.

    I have no links, no. Just something the prof. said.
     
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  33. floridatennisdude

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    3 out of 5 detailed research studies here disagree with the info you got and another 2 studies were inconclusive. http://www.jsams.org/article/S1440-2440(06)00051-X/abstract

    I'd fact check a professor that states something so odd. It's probably just a belief he has that he cannot prove with data.

    Even purely on common sense, I don't get how someone can conceive that warming up isn't a wise move to prevent injury. I'm pretty sure I would tear my shoulder again if I went out and tried to hit a first serve with zero warm up. I do a fairly good job of warming up before going on court and take 12-15 practice serves at 60-75% before starting a match.
     
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  34. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Perhaps, should we listen to our own bodies, instead of a bunch of eyeglass wearing non athletic scientists who only compile and analyse information?
    THINK... if you're gonna run full speed for 200 yards, should you warm up?
    If you are gonna throw something as far as you can, first try, are you gonna warmup?
    If you're gonna hit your hardest first serve, do you do so straight out of bed?
    Forget the statistics and scientist, who don't play tennis. Think for yourself.
    As for stretching...your are an athlete. TRY IT. It works for some, is avoided by other's. I learned this in 6th grade little league, around 1959.
    When will YOU learn?
     
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  35. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYii6nxhvUk

    Where have all the flowers gone, long time passing?
    Where have all the flowers gone, long time ago?
    Where have all the flowers gone?
    Young girls have picked them everyone.
    Oh, when will they ever learn?
    Oh, when will they ever learn?
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2012
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  36. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Yeah, funny thing, that first day in LL tryouts. We all expected a structured warmup and stretch routine, like the pros did on TV. But, coach lectured us on the importance of listening to our bodies, that some players need warmups and stretching until they sweat, while other's play better when the engine is a little cool.
    He stressed how important it was for us to perform on the field, during actual play, and that we all had already gone thru years of phyiscal ed., and that we should know how our bodies operated.
    EVERYONE warmed up, a few stretched.
     
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  37. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    If you really feel a need to stretch prior to tennis, do so before you get to the courts. Considerable evidence in the past 2 decades indicates that static stretches will reduce muscle performance (both speed & strength) for about 1 hour (possibly longer with extensive stretching and perhaps only 30 minutes or so for light stretching). There is no evidence that static stretches immediately prior to sports/exercise will prevent injuries. In some instances, extensive static stretches just prior to exercise/competition may actually increase the likelihood of injury.

    Once you get to the courts, warmup up. It is not a bad idea to include dynamic stretches as part of your warmup. Do some sort of leg swinging to dynamically stretch the groin. After tennis or exercise, perform some static stretches as part of your cool down.
     
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  38. floridatennisdude

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    The best source for fitness performance is usually a group of little leaguers.
     
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  39. Chas Tennis

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    muscle-tendon stretching and ligament stretching

    An interesting point about stretching ligaments vs muscle-tendons -

    In the reference Stretching Scientifically(2003), 4th Ed, T. Kurz distinguishes between muscle-tendon stretching and stretching the ligaments at a joint. [Ligaments connect bone to bone.] He says that stretches aimed at elongating ligaments for adults may lead to lose joints and be hazardous.........very interesting discussion. There are many insightful discussions and observations in this book that I have not seen in any other stretching references.

    In another area of research - Over the last several years there is biomechanical research that indicates that the muscle-tendon-fascia combination may not be as important for elasticity as the basic muscle cell itself. As best I understand it when elasticity is measured on isolated muscle cells the same elastic properties can be observed in a single basic cell. That is, the muscle overall structure/facia/tendon may not be as important as has been thought. ( I'm not sure if there are serious controversies with the new conclusion. ?) A protein molecule in the muscle cell itself called Titin may play the main role in elasticity. See last paragraph on Titin- http://muscle.ucsd.edu/musintro/contractions.shtml
     
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  40. FastFreddy

    FastFreddy Semi-Pro

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    why stretch

    Printed in NSCA, NASM that stretching may reduce muscle sorness, improve muscle perfomance and reduce injury. The important word is may. It has now been proven that stretching does none of these. Some people use stretching as a part of warming up for a match. Warm up is about getting the mind ready for sports comp. Instead of doing stretching just do some jumperope to get ready.

    Sometimes with tennis outside with rain delays u get zero warmup and I played fine. I found the same with injury my shoulder was so bad I served zero warmup serves and served fine during the match. The dude I was playing said wow no serve warmups your serve must be dailed in. I got into his head before the match. As far as cool downs go light run or cycle 20 mins to get rid of any muscle stiffness.

    Some people swear dynamic before and static after. The only reason I can see for stretching is if u need to increase your rom for your sport or u r losing some rom from your workload. Just remember there is no warmups in life.

    Freddy NASM PES, CES, NSCA CSCS
     
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  41. floridatennisdude

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    No warm ups in life, Freddy?

    Bleh, my life warmup is called "coffee."
     
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  42. FastFreddy

    FastFreddy Semi-Pro

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    no doubt

    Iam coffee free since 2006 and soda free since 1999. It's so true lets say u r in NYC subway, street or bar and some dude wants to fight u. Hold on dude I first have to warm up then do some stretching so come back in 15-20 mins.
    Same goes for cops a robber starts running, does the cop say stop I have not warmed up I might pull a muscle stop and wait for me to warmup and stretch haha.
     
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  43. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    So as a professional in the field, you are advocating no warmups before going full out?
     
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  44. FastFreddy

    FastFreddy Semi-Pro

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    warmup

    I just saying warmups are all mental. Here's another example call come in the fire house in the middle of the night they are sleeping all they do is get up get dressed and perform their job. They don't have time to do a active warmup 10-15mins then stretch for another 15 mins. I bet thay have no time for coffee. One time I got lost going to one of my JR A hockey games. I showed up half half thur the first period. Guess what nobody was going to stop the game for me to skate around and stretch out.

    Guess what I played one of my best games ever scored 3 goals. Just saying it's all in your head. I also use to serve a bucket of balls 110 before each match to get my serve ready. So once my tendon let go in my shoulder I served zero buckets and served fine. Then my shoulder got worse and I stopped serving warmup serves during the warmup. That's 12 more serves before my shoulder starts hurting. I have also ran 3 marathons with zero warmups 3:40, 3:24 and 3:09. No long runs, taper or speed work. I run 8 miles every day with no warmup!
     
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  45. gino

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    No Warmup?!?!?!??!!?!
     
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  46. r2473

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    OK, just asking.
     
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  47. SupremeV

    SupremeV New User

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    Not sure if this has been said, but it's not so much about stretching per se, but about how flexible you are.

    An analogy would be studying for a test. If you study at last second then it won't be that much of a benefit. You will reap the benefit by studying periodically, and consistently.

    Similarly, from my experience, that stretching not that different. If you stretch at the last second, it will probably do nothing for you. The only benefit is to those who don't stretch at home anyways, in which case than yes better than nothing.

    From my personaly experience, I've always had VERY tight calfs and hamstrings. In high school I recall pulling my calfs very often. It's not like i didn't stretch, always did the mandatory stretching with the team etc etc. But overall not very flexible.

    This changed in college when I started made strides in gaining flexibility. I have seriously not pulled a muscle since then.
     
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  48. 3fees

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    Stretch before and after matches,practice,ect
     
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  49. WildVolley

    WildVolley Legend

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    I'm a skeptic when it comes to the value of a lot of static stretching before competition, but I'm not yet a skeptic of the value of the warm-up, at least when it is cold.

    Perhaps it is just mental, but I definitely warm-up my shoulder every time, before I start serving. I remember when I'd run in 90+ Fahrenheit weather and I'd feel loose instantly and not do any warmup at all.

    There's probably nothing wrong with doing a little light stretching as part of a warmup, even my dog and cat will do a little stretching when they are getting ready to go and have been sleeping.
     
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  50. floridatennisdude

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    Well, if we could all count on a major boost of adrenaline before a workout I guess we'd be ok. Ultimately this is a bs comparison. And I assume you know it.
     
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