How is it possible to defeat nadal?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Headshotterer, Mar 6, 2012.

  1. Headshotterer

    Headshotterer Professional

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    He is the definition of pure talent tennis machine. He is right handed but plays with his left for gods sake! His spirit, agility and effort are unsurpassable! It is no surprise federer is his wipping boy. Djokovic must be a cheater.
     
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  2. Clarky21

    Clarky21 Banned

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    Sarcasm alert. :lol:
     
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  3. Nbhasin7

    Nbhasin7 New User

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    Lol Troll more please.
     
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  4. kishnabe

    kishnabe G.O.A.T.

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    Not sure if trolling or serious.

    Nadal is talented but is not perfect. He can easily be beaten by a few top players. It just Nadal handles pressure better, and understands his game well.

    Novak knows how to handle Nadal games and is not pressure prone like in the past. Beating Nadal gave him that confidence. I fully expect Nadal to beat Djokovic a few times this year.

    5-4 h2h in 2012 with Djokovic with the 5 wins I think.
    Nadal going to floor him in IW, Miami, MC.
     
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  5. tenniselbow1

    tenniselbow1 Rookie

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    Epic troll post. Middle aged obsessed female crazed in anticipation of seeing her boy play in a few days it seems. Nadal is the least talented of the big 4, that's a no brainer. He's been extremely fortunate to have used what talents he does have to their maximum potential. The slowing down of the surfaces has single handedly handed him 3-4 slams he would not have had in any other tennis era. He's a slightly upgraded version of bruguerra or kuerten who's taken advantage fully of these changes over the last 4 years.
     
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  6. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Bionic Poster

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    He does play like he's using a PS3 controller at times o_O
     
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  7. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Believe me when I say that it has far more to do with modern tennis technology than the surfaces, apart from the lack of old grass Wimbledon and carpet courts on the tour. Nadal hits crazy topspin because of the new technology. He wouldn't have hit that much topspin, or have gotten that much depth, had he been playing in the 1990s.
     
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  8. monfed

    monfed Guest

    Which explains why he's so poor indoors and on a fast court like Cincinatti. Sorry,not buying.
     
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  9. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Cincinnati is arguably the fastest hardcourt on the tour. And yes, Nadal's indoor record leaves much to be desired, but the indoor season scarcely exists these days apart from a few events.
     
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  10. monfed

    monfed Guest

    Then saying "it has far more to do with modern tennis technology than the surfaces" is moot because it's a well known fact that the slams have been slowed down which have aided Nadal's topspin. Unless you're saying slams haven't been slowed down which would lead to a whole new debate.
     
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  11. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    The strings have aided Nadal's topspin and depth of shot. The surface differences are exaggerated in most circumstances.
     
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  12. Paul Murphy

    Paul Murphy Hall of Fame

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    Yep, he's got it all - pity about his serve and his backhand though.
    The forehand is landing a bit short these days too.
     
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  13. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    Why can't both co-exist.

    Technology aids his topspin, which gives him an advantage on slower courts. But fast or low bouncing courts nullify or reduce that advantage. (Sorry, i haven't gone through ur discussion, just the last 2 posts).
     
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  14. monfed

    monfed Guest

    They do, point being majority of the surfaces(including slams) have been slowed down which aid his topspin thus making him successful outside of clay. Players say it, tournament officials have said it,commentators keep going on about it.
    I'd take their view over a biased internet poster anyday.
     
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  15. Evan77

    Evan77 Banned

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    oh boy, this thread is just so wrong, lol. trolling at it's best. just hilarious. I don't even know why I'm bothering typing this stuff. simply stupid.
     
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  16. decades

    decades Guest

    wipping boy?
     
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  17. roysid

    roysid Professional

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    Nadal is always suspect is non-clay tournaments. He has won 11 harcourt compared to 32 clay court titles and only 3 on grass. Not only that, his hard court final record is 11-15 (clay is 32-4). So it is not only djokovic who beats nadal.
     
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  18. vive le beau jeu !

    vive le beau jeu ! G.O.A.T.

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    so in other words, both have evolved in favour of the nadal's ugly game.

    but i still think the most penalizing thing for him is to negate his topspin (it's a bit like a legless bull or a slimeless slug).
     
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  19. axel89

    axel89 Banned

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  20. Andres

    Andres G.O.A.T.

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    If Bruguera and Berasategui (or Muster, why not?) could, why not Nadal?

    I don't think Bruguera's FH was significantly less spinny than Nadal's. If anything, it was comparable.
     
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  21. phnx90

    phnx90 Hall of Fame

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    Slowing down surfaces per se does nothing to aid Nadal's topspin. WTF is a slow HC, but he's won as many titles there as I have on that surface. Rather, spin-friendly, fast surfaces would probably benefit Rafa's groundstrokes more. That could explain why Rafa has done so well in Wimbledon.

    The only real benefit slow surfaces give Rafa is that it makes retrieving a lot easier, which does play a substantial part of his game. But then again, retrieving is a large part of everybody's game. It's just that Rafa happens to be the poster child of that style, which does actually include other big players like Murray and Djokovic, the latter whose popularity (come to think of it) has conveniently spiked exponentially ever since he started winning everything last year.
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2012
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  22. monfed

    monfed Guest

    WTF is a medium-fast HC with low bounce(A slow HC would be AO,Miami,IW..WTF plays nothing like the aforementioned.). This explains why Fed was able to hit through the court, as was Tsonga. Like you said,a faster HC takes time away from Nadal and his retrieving ability is curbed to a great extent(but that is secondary to his primary weapon his vicious topspin FH). A 30 YO grandpa Fed spanking a prime Nadal 6-3 6-0 (that too with all the supposed mental edge that Nadal has and being a nightmare matchup) is telling.

    Please do enlighten me which are these "spin friendly fast surfaces".
    Incase you're gonna say USO, know that the tournament officials,players have complained how it's been slowed down.

    Also, Nadal's indoor season is ALWAYS dismal by a top player's standards(esp no1/no2). It's almost akin to Pete's clay season. They're barely a factor.

    Nadal's record in Cincy(one of the fastest HCs) is anything but stellar. The guy hasn't even made a final there and has lost to virtual nobodies in earlier rounds.

    Nadal takes a month off(skipping Bercy) to prepare for WTF yet falls short. If anything Nadal should thank his stars that AO was changed from RA to PC(in 2008, incidentally has been doing well since then winning in 09) , USO was slowed down. The majority of the HC season has slow HC, which heavily favours a grinder like Nadal.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 7, 2012
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  23. CMM

    CMM Legend

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    Djokovic said you have to outlast him.
     
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  24. celoft

    celoft Guest

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  25. LuckyR

    LuckyR Legend

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    Beat Rafa? Easy really. Just start acting (real or imagined) like you are absolutely dead tired, that you are having trouble even standing up. Then he will hit the rest of the balls right at you, so you don't have to do any running to get to his shots.

    It seems to work just about 100% of the time.
     
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  26. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Relatively speaking, it's close, but Nadal's forehand has more power on it in absolute terms. The technology makes that possible. Bare in mind that I'm comparing Nadal, a modern day player, to players like Muster, Bruguera and Berasategui as they played in the 1990s. If Nadal played in the same era as the other three, it would be much closer.
     
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  27. phnx90

    phnx90 Hall of Fame

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    Actually by spin friendly fast surface, I'm actually referring to the Wimbledon grass. It's slower than before, but much more spin-friendly and still the fastest surface amongst the four slams.

    I wouldn't really say WTF court is medium-fast. I'd put it at medium. I had tickets to something like 6 matches at WTF 2010, so I can say that it's actually surprisingly slow. Not AO-slow, but definitely not that fast. It seems about the same as AO 2009.

    Nadal may be in his prime right now, but he was playing terribly in WTF 2011. Also, indoor is still Fed's turf, though of course it wouldn't negate Fed's nutcase routine whenever he finds Rafa on the other side of the net.
     
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  28. BeHappy

    BeHappy Hall of Fame

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    I agree with Andres, I see no difference.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoMBxY7hgcQ



    Until 2007, Nadal was losing to journeymen everywhere on hardcourts, except for the slow hard courts leading into the claycourt season. These slow high bouncing hardcourts were the only place Nadal could transfer his clay court game to.

    Then the AO was slowed down, then the end of year World Championship was slowed down when it moved to London, then all the hard courts leading into the USO were slowed down(remember how unbelievably fast Cincinnati was?), then the USO. What little indoor tournements are left are all ultra slow.


    Nadal has only ever been able to play on ulta slow high bouncing courts, and in the last 5 years virtually the entire tour has been changed to his preferred speed and bounce height, except the French which is actually faster.
     
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  29. MichaelNadal

    MichaelNadal Bionic Poster

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    ^^Did you ever consider his game is better than it was in 2007? What a see-thru hater.
     
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  30. BeHappy

    BeHappy Hall of Fame

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    Nadal was always good on slow hard courts, now most of the tour is slow hard courts but he still loses on low bouncing courts whenever he plays on them.
     
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  31. clayqueen

    clayqueen Hall of Fame

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    Like Federer's weak era!!!!!!!
     
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  32. clayqueen

    clayqueen Hall of Fame

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    Just like Federer made his name against journey men.
     
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  33. clayqueen

    clayqueen Hall of Fame

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    Isn't it funny how the 'most talented' is the whipping boy of the 'least talented?:???:
     
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  34. clayqueen

    clayqueen Hall of Fame

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    Never a truer word said.
     
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  35. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    Interviewer: "Has the rivalry with Nadal pushed you to new heights"?
    Djokovic: "What rivalry? I win all the matches."
     
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  36. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    Don't forget, Ralph sniffs crack before every serve!
     
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  37. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Yet Djokovic still has a losing head-to-head against Nadal, and Nadal is not deterred by those 7 losses to Djokovic. He will keep trying until he gets it right.
     
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  38. monfed

    monfed Guest

    Excellent post!
     
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  39. Biscuitmcgriddleson

    Biscuitmcgriddleson Professional

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    Spin friendly an fast don't seem possible to me. For the surface to take spin doesn't the surface have to be much rougher in texture? Miami is suppose to be like sand paper and I recall drakulie saying it just destroys your shoes playing on that surface due to the amount of sand mixed in the top coat.
     
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  40. Biscuitmcgriddleson

    Biscuitmcgriddleson Professional

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    Fast when it's new grass maybe, but not in the second week. Also if I'm driving 30 mph and others are going 15 mph, I am the fastest of the bunch but it doesn't make me fast.
     
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  41. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    Enjoy it as long as you can.
     
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  42. monfed

    monfed Guest

    Ok understood and yes I agree.


    I thought Bercy and WTF played pretty much the same speed this year,although Bercy 2010 was lightning quick.


    His UE count was less though. But maybe you're right. I guess his performance in WTF 2010 was better but he still lost quite convincingly in that final too imo(last set being a blowout).

    I personally think the mental edge is exaggerated, it's more the matchup issue that really bothers Fed. Nadal can't seem to breakdown Fed's BH wing indoors, that takes pressure off Fed's FH which is vital.
     
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  43. FlashFlare11

    FlashFlare11 Hall of Fame

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    I thought this too and I still try to convince myself that this is all it is. But then I see Federer time and again lose when being in a largely advantageous position and the mental disadvantage comes back. The match-up disadvantage plays a huge part in why Federer loses to Nadal so frequently, but time and again I hear tennis commentators mentioning that Nadal's level doesn't really rise or fall during his matches with Federer, it's Federer's level that drops, and part of that, I believe, is due to the mental demons Federer has against Nadal.
     
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  44. NamRanger

    NamRanger G.O.A.T.

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    Someone who doesn't play tennis simply wouldn't understand.


    The strings that most players use have been around for a very long time. Graphite, oversize racquets, etc. etc. have been around since the 90s.


    What happened was the entire tour shifted towards a medium paced/slower paced speed, thus leading to the popularity of polys.


    Trust me, play on a real grass court or fast hardcourt/carpet court and you'll find that oversize racquets/poly strings aren't gonna do you any favors at all.


    The notion that the surface change had nothing to do with how the players play now adays is completely absurd. The notion that technology has everything to do with what is going on right now is even more absurd, considering no new significant technologies have been introduced into tennis (unless you count Luxilon, which is simply a refinement of poly strings).
     
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  45. flyinghippos101

    flyinghippos101 Legend

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    Be Djokovic. Seems to be working out so far

    /thread
     
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  46. Biscuitmcgriddleson

    Biscuitmcgriddleson Professional

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    ^This guy gets it.
     
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  47. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Wimbledon grass courts have changed and carpet courts have been fazed out of the tour, so that is a surface change. Oh, and Rebound Ace has been dumped for Plexicushion as well.

    It's clear that something has changed about the way the shots are hit because there's no way Nadal hits his topspin shots with that much spin and that much depth in the 1990s. While it would be impressive by 1990s standards, it wouldn't have the kind of spin or depth it has nowadays. And I'm talking about 1990s clay-courts here as well, which weren't exactly fast. The guys today hammer the ball harder than any previous generation.
     
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  48. FlashFlare11

    FlashFlare11 Hall of Fame

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    I use a 90 sq. in. racquet and when I play on a fast, indoor surface or even wood, I can definitely feel myself hitting the ball much cleaner on both wings (I use a single-handed backhand). My backhand especially becomes more of a weapon on faster surfaces than on slower ones. I can definitely see and feel the difference between the two and see why Nadal's success indoors and on faster surfaces is lackluster.
     
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  49. Crazy man

    Crazy man Banned

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    Did you ever watch Bruguera? (Serious question)
     
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  50. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    What a question. I saw Bruguera loads of times. Very impressive topspin by 1990s standards, but not compared to Nadal in this era.
     
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