How much are people joking when they say Nadal is a GOAT contender?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Wangtang1, Apr 23, 2012.

  1. Wangtang1

    Wangtang1 Rookie

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    Pads his H2H against other top players with clay matches and people act as if this means a huge amount for GOAT rankings.

    Doesn't win a single title (apart from Davis Cup lol) from 2011 French Open to 2012 Monte Carlo. Remind me what Federer (5 years older) was doing from French Open 2006 to Monte Carlo 2007?

    Became Djokovic's bunny.

    He is a world class clay courter though. With some hard work I could see him starting to win some titles on hard courts.
     
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  2. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    16 slams is quite doable.

    Definitely a contender if he crosses 14, however GOAT is subjective.
     
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  3. WhiskeyEE

    WhiskeyEE Legend

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    they're referring to his tournament drawing ability. he's gotten more cake walk draws than any other player in the open era. GOAT drawer.
     
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  4. monfed

    monfed Guest

    He's a CLAYGOAT/CO-CLAYGOAT. GOAT/CO-GOAT he is not.

    Enthusiastic *******s wanna inflate his stats,too bad they can only inflate his clay stats BAHAHAHAHAA!
     
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  5. monfed

    monfed Guest

    It is for Ralph,that I'm sure of.

    Yea but if he wins 4 more RGs to get there, he'll still be regarded as a CLAY GOAT.Imagine 10/14 on clay ROFL
     
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  6. Spider

    Spider Hall of Fame

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    There is no GOAT or whatever the fanboys call it now a days. That is just a fanboy term for their favorite player, and no Federer is not the GOAT.

    There are very successful players and Nadal is one of them currently. Of course there are some more successful than him.
     
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  7. PhrygianDominant

    PhrygianDominant Hall of Fame

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    There is no goat

    [​IMG]

    They do make interesting conversation though
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2012
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  8. Hood_Man

    Hood_Man Legend

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    Lots of people seem to have their own idea of what GOAT means, but instead of actually explaining it they just tell everyone else they're wrong and this just goes round and round and round and round and round...

    Personally I don't think there can ever be one GOAT but several Greatest Players of All Time, so Nadal would be in the list. Not as high as Fed or Sampras as in my eyes it's total dominance of your field over an extended period of time that matters most, not just the major count, but with 100+ weeks at #1 he's up still pretty high up.
     
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  9. nadal_slam_king

    nadal_slam_king Banned

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    Has there ever been a 25-year-old closer to being GOAT than Nadal? Career Grand Slam, 10 slams, 20 Masters Shields, 102 weeks ranked number one, 3 straight slams in a Calendar Year. Surface GOAT already. No 25-year-old has ever been closer.
     
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  10. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    26-year old without 1 month. Federer at the same stage had more majors, more titles, was ranked no 1 for longer, had less MS but more WTF's (in fact Nadal still has none), reached 9 consecutive major finals and never got owned across 3 surfaces in his prime to such a degree as Nadal was against Djokovic.

    [​IMG]
    Time is running up for Nadal...
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2012
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  11. nadal_slam_king

    nadal_slam_king Banned

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    You can't be a GOAT contender without the Career Grand Slam. And Federer had a lot less Masters Shields, and only the same number of slams. Compare 25-year-old Nadal to 25-year-old Federer and 25-year-old Nadal wins because of the Career Grand Slam and several more Masters Shields. Not even close. The weeks ranked number one don't tip the scales, and the World Tour Finals aren't as important as the significantly greater number of Masters Shields. Oh and did I mention Nadal is the SURFACE GOAT already?
     
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  12. Feather

    Feather Hall of Fame

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    WTF is not as important as Masters shields, yeah that's why Rafa didn't want to win not even a single one. I always used to wonder why Rafa never didnt even get a single WTF victory. Now I got the answer. Thanks a lot :)
     
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  13. nadal_slam_king

    nadal_slam_king Banned

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    Impossible to read that 'grammar'.
     
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  14. Magnus

    Magnus Legend

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    One thing is for sure, Nadal is the COAT - Cheater Of All Time
     
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  15. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    Read again. Federer after Wimbledon 2007 had 11 majors (not "slams"...common newbie mistake - a slam = winning all 4 majors in 1 year.

    Federer didn't have the privilege of having a joke draw in one of the French Opens to complete his career slam at the time (he had a relatively easier one in 2009 comapred to 2005-2008 though). This is probably the least important thing on the list, once you get that 4th slam it doesn't matter at what stage you did it. Nadal can't build on that later on. Also, Sampras is a top tier contender without even reaching a FO final and sucking big time on the whole surface.

    20 MS shields to 13 MS shields and 3 WTF's. I don't see how the difference is "huge". Fed's numbers were also more balanced, he didn't have to rely on a massive joke competition on one surface to collect the vast majority of his titles there, like Nadal holding 8 Monte Carlo titles, lolz. I guess Nadal doesn't have enough talent to even win 1 WTF as he can't avoid playing 5 top 8 players in the world on a hard court.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2012
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  16. nadal_slam_king

    nadal_slam_king Banned

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    Time is running up for Nadal?
     
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  17. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    Lawl ok. I predict you'll be gone after Madrid.
     
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  18. Feather

    Feather Hall of Fame

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    You mean impossible to get the sarcasm :)
     
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  19. nadal_slam_king

    nadal_slam_king Banned

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    I predict Nadal will be slaughtering your hopes after, before and during Madrid.
     
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  20. nadal_slam_king

    nadal_slam_king Banned

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    So your version of sarcasm = awful grammar.....
     
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  21. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    Can't wait.
     
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  22. tennis_pro

    tennis_pro G.O.A.T.

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    there is nothing wrong with that sentence, you fail once more
     
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  23. nadal_slam_king

    nadal_slam_king Banned

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    There is a lot wrong, hence you fail epically.
     
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  24. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    If Nole falters, then there's no one else stopping Ralph. Murray certainly isn't pulling up his socks.

    Right now, i frankly don't hand Rafa even the RG (unlike others). However, if Nole remains at 0.8 (lol), Rafa can take 2-3 slams for 2 years or so. That's not only clay slams.

    10 RG's!! Blows my mind!:)
     
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  25. Sentinel

    Sentinel Bionic Poster

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    You mean juggling accounts :)
     
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  26. mattennis

    mattennis Hall of Fame

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    Nadal future status as one of the GOSEs (Greatest Of Some Era) depends heavily on Djokovic's level in the following months/years.

    Right now Nadal is not a GOSE for me (though he already is in my list of about 15 greatest players ever), but I really think that only Djokovic separates Nadal from achieving 14-16 GS (he could be around 13 GS already if not for Djokovic2.0 ).

    I don't see any other player right now capable of defeating Nadal in a GS tournament consistently.

    Out of the last 8 GS, only Ferrer (apart from Djokovic as I said) was able to defeat Nadal and that was mainly because Nadal injured his leg in the very first or second game of that match. In the other 7 GS nobody could beat Nadal (before the final), who won 4 of them and only lost to Djokovic in the last 3 GS finals.

    Nadal was never that consistent in GS in the past. Some people talk about decline, but the truth is that Nadal is closer to win multiple GS per year in the last two years and now, than any time before, and the only reason he may not do it this year (and he didn't last year) is because of Novak Djokovic.

    It is going to be very thrilling to see how it finally develops, because the truth is that Nadal is not "that far away from Sampras's 14 GS" and just one player is stopping him at the moment.

    On the other hand, Djokovic himself must be more than willing to win as many GS this season (and the next) as he can, knowing that he is going to be 25 next month and that his bid to be a GOSE (and to win maybe 8-10 or more GS) depends heavily on what happens this season and the next one.

    So this year we are going to see two great players fighting to death in every one of the remaining 3 GS, plus the great Roger Federer trying to win at least one more or two to put his record a bit "further away" from Nadal, just incase....

    Exciting moments in tennis, much more because of the fight and drama than the game styles in themselves, but the drama is always a key ingredient in any memorable GS final, so let's hope for the best to come...
     
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  27. veroniquem

    veroniquem Bionic Poster

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    Is that a joke? gose? Seriously? What is that? Never heard of it. Best of all time, best of open era, or best of own era, that's the only categories I'm prepared to take seriously and Rafa is definitely in the category of best of all time, don't know where on the list yet but given all his records, that's where he belongs for sure.
     
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  28. mattennis

    mattennis Hall of Fame

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    "Best Of Some Era" is being the best player of the world at least in three different Years (better if consecutive years).

    It is something about my personal opinion, just that.
     
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  29. mattennis

    mattennis Hall of Fame

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    And as I said in other thread, for me Nadal and Agassi are both in my list of about 15 greatest tennis players ever (even though none of them are GOSEs for me).

    It is just some personal terminology I use to try to explain my view better (for example, for me there are no GOAT, it is just an illusion. For me there are several GOSEs and some other very great players from different eras).
     
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  30. aprilfool

    aprilfool Guest

    You can't be GOAT without 23 consecutive semi-finals in slams. Much more impressive than even Fed's record of most slam titles.


    Nadal will probably break Federer's slam record and become Greatest of all Time-wasters.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 24, 2012
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  31. brettsticker86

    brettsticker86 Rookie

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    Uh oh, better call the...
    [​IMG]
     
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  32. DjokovicForTheWin

    DjokovicForTheWin Banned

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    Nadal is now closer than ever to 16 slams. So close :)
     
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  33. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Bjorn Borg. He won his 11th major at 25 years and 1 day old. He has also had 109 weeks at number 1.
     
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  34. Evan77

    Evan77 Banned

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    Nadal won 10 slams (6 on clay), OK. talking about Nadal as a potential GOAT is a joke. There is only one GOAT and that's Federer like it or not. Yes, we can argue that his competition was almost non existent but Rog was playing whoever was on the other side of the net.

    Even 30 yo (almost 31yo) he can trouble the best player in the world (Djokovic) and I respect that.

    I do not pick the best player ever based on how many slams they won. I still feel like crying when I think about Borg giving up and retiring so early. Borg who didn't bother playing the AO, Borg who hated playing at the USO etc.

    However, nobody who is sane enough can argue that Fed is the best tennis player ever. His foot work, crazy winners from all over the court ... absolutely amazing. People put too much into his h2h vs Nadal. I personally hate that match up. One thing that I'm really p!ssed at Roger is that he was simply too stubborn to change his game against Nadal...

    All Nadal has been doing is attacking Rog's BH ... over and over... same old ****. In terms of talent, Roger and Nadal shouldn't be even mentioned in the same sentence ... Nadal, IMHO, is just a bully who is waiting for other players to make UE ... well, thank God one player showed up (Djokovic) who was able to stop him.
     
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  35. elpolaco84

    elpolaco84 Guest

    the only thing that matters for most tennis fans is slam count, only then you can count ohter achievments to reinforce goat status tardism
     
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  36. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    But that approach doesn't work if you are seriously considering the merits of players before the open era. Even into the open era, it gets complicated with players banned from some open majors for political reasons.
     
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  37. darrinbaker00

    darrinbaker00 Professional

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    If Roger truly is the GOAT, why can't he make the necessary adjustments to stop it?
     
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  38. elpolaco84

    elpolaco84 Guest

    Yes,thats why GOAT discussions are endless
     
    #38
  39. timnz

    timnz Hall of Fame

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    Tell you who

    Bjorn Borg. Got to 11 majors by age 25. He was the clay goat before Nadal. Won more titles than nadal including 3 season end finals (nadal has yet to win one)
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2012
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  40. jwjh

    jwjh Hall of Fame

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    Yes, definitely the DOAT.
     
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  41. underground

    underground Legend

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    It's funny how people go like 'OMG if Nadal hasn't lost to Djokovic he would have an extra 3 slams!'

    Then how about this:

    If Federer hadn't lost to Nadal he would have 22 slams by now.

    If Roddick hadn't lost to Federer he would have 3 Wimbledons and an extra USO.

    These 'If' statements are just invalid. The runner up wasn't the better player and didn't win the slam, simple as that.

    True his achievements at 25 years old is amazing. BUT one thing to note, Nadal's 'ascend and decline' graph is one of the steepest ones. By the time he gets to 30 he'll have so many injuries + running out of steam he would retire by then. Nadal's playing style can't last him that long. On the other hand Federer can play up to 35 yrs or possible even more.
     
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  42. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    I think you're forgetting a certain Lleyton Hewitt, certainly in regards to 2005 Wimbledon, and maybe 2004 as well.
     
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  43. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    I fail to see what point you are attempting. Federer hasnt won a slam in over 2 years, when he was only 28. He can play until he is 35 if he wants but he sure as hell wont be wining anything. It is doubtful at this point that he will win even 1 more slam.

    While Nadal might never reach 16 slams his chances of winning future slams and adding to his current achievements are still 5x more than Federer. So what if he is retired at 30, he still has a real shot to win more majors the next 2-3 years, the aging Federer does not.
     
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  44. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    Roddick fans say he would have won both 2004 and 2005.

    Hewitt fans say he would have won both 2004 and 2005

    All objective people who arent a major fan of either will say Roddick would have won in 2004 and Hewitt in 2005. Which is what would have happened.
     
    #44
  45. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    We don't know that, and will never know, but we have our opinions.
     
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  46. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    The more likely result is the bottom line though. It is just like how we dont know what would have happened without the Seles stabbing but the most likely turn of events is their Roland Garros records would be drastically impacted, but Graf would have continued to dominate Wimbledon. We dont know what would have happened if Maureen Connolly hadnt had a crippling horse back accident but most likely is she would have continued to dominate on all surfaces the next 8 years or more and been the runaway GOAT today. We dont know whether Henin would have won the 2003 U.S Open and 2004 Australian Open titles without Serena's injury but the most likely answer is no. And so on.
     
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  47. DjokovicForTheWin

    DjokovicForTheWin Banned

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    After 2002, I'm sure the most likely thing to happen in most people's eyes was that Federer would win 16 slams. LOL :) Some people are just :rolleyes:
     
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  48. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    A certain former Wimbledon champion said at 2002 Wimbledon after Federer lost to Ancic that he didn't think Federer would ever win Wimbledon. It was hard to disagree with him at the time as Federer seemed to be going backwards in the majors in 2002, losing in the first round in straight sets at both the 2002 French Open and 2002 Wimbledon, whereas he had reached the quarter finals of the same tournaments in 2001.
     
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  49. underground

    underground Legend

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    Both players have shots at winning majors. Federer is in great form IMO. Fed 2012 definitely > Fed 2011. People are writing him off too early. He's still consistently making QFs and regularly appearing in SFs. A year ago I thought he couldn't beat anyone else in the Top 4, but now he's showing that he can beat Nadal, and not once every 2 years. He still needs to prove that he isn't going to choke against Djoker though, but they haven't played for 6 months already. Who knows Federer might get a cupcake draw like Nadal always does and he can have a shot?

    Also, Federer has much more records than Nadal has. Nadal's achievements will not be 5x what Federer has.
     
    #49
  50. DjokovicForTheWin

    DjokovicForTheWin Banned

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    I agree with you. You'd have to be pretty stupid to just go off of most likely things, which are often inane opinions themselves.
     
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