How much are you running and dieting?

Discussion in 'Health & Fitness' started by Power Player, Aug 9, 2012.

  1. Kevin T

    Kevin T Professional

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    IMHO, 5ks are the perfect distance to use as cross-training, maybe with a 10k thrown in every now and then. I mentioned earlier that I did a 10 miler and it was probably one of my more boring runs. After 30 minutes or so, I'm ready for it to be over. I still don't know how people train long distance day in and day out. 5k requires a decent mix of speed and aerobic fitness, you'll get the enjoyment of doing a few races and it shouldn't be too hard on the joints. It really shouldn't impact your strength training too much, either.

    Tracks are fun. Always used to love speeding up in the turns.

    The nice thing about Higdon and other 5 k training programs is you usually have an interval/speed day each week. If you want to increase it to 2 days and drop a longer/slower day, I doubt it would hinder your progress.
     
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  2. Kevin T

    Kevin T Professional

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    I believe Crossfit Endurance is geared more towards shorter distance/high intensity interval running/biking/rowing vs the longer/slower standard method. Maybe look into that as a quick reference.
     
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  3. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    I am with you. I hate long distance running. BORING. I do it just to challenge myself honestly. I would rather go to the track and do intervals. this has me excited already to be honest. especially if it is considered a better way to burn fat, get lean and get better on the tennis court.
     
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  4. gatorbait01

    gatorbait01 Rookie

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    Those of you who do HIIT how many times per week? Do you incorporate any traditional aerobic work?
     
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  5. Kevin T

    Kevin T Professional

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    I like to do at least one day of slower running, 8-9 minute mile pace for 3-4 miles, usually on Sunday morning. As mentioned above, I incorporate plyos and sprints into my strength training days (so 2-3 times per week, depending on squash/tennis). A lot of times (maybe most weeks) I ditch the Sunday run in favor of squash. I'm lucky to play tennis 1-2 times/week tops these days with 2 kids < 5yo and another in the oven. Heck, I often do my strength training while cooking dinner or breakfast at the same time with kids nipping at my heels. :) Actually getting pretty good at timing stirs and pancake flips with breaks between sets. :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2012
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  6. hcb0804

    hcb0804 Hall of Fame

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    I'm on the see food diet, I see food and I run to the table to eat it.
     
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  7. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    I hit the track today. Wow, definitley an eye opener. Started with 3 200s and had to finish with 6 100s. I sprinted each and yeah that hurt in a good way. I could tell that is the ticket. I think I will do it twice a week and then the 5k once. I'll just hit the track each time, I love it.

    Worked out earlier so I was not exactly fresh, but these intervals hurt. I am gasping while I walk about 50 meters and then ok by the time I walk 50 more so I was walking 100 and sprinting 100. This definitley could get me in shape faster than anything because it is a lot tougher than the 5k IMO.
     
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  8. Sabratha

    Sabratha G.O.A.T.

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    I had a jog this morning, decided to change up my routine and see how far it gets me in terms of fitness. I've been holding hand weights while running to build up strength, too.
     
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  9. mykoh

    mykoh Rookie

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    intervals are the way to go imo. the thing is you have to be really motivated and self-diciplined for it to be effective.
     
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  10. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    Yeah agree. What is a good program for it? I used to do suicides/intervals every practice when I played football. It sounds like the all out sprinting of 100s could work, but some are saying to do full 400s?
     
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  11. maggmaster

    maggmaster Hall of Fame

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    I would not do 400s for tennis. There is no correlation between a 400 and a tennis match. Long distance running prepares you for the whole match heart rate increase, short sprints makes you faster for individual points. Medium distance sprints, 400s and 800s just do not seem valuable to me.
     
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  12. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    What would you do..100s? If so, what is a good set to do..10-12?
     
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  13. movdqa

    movdqa Legend

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    I like doing 400s as they are useful for 5Ks. I do 400M in 1:33 - 1:40. If you figure 5 shots every 15 seconds, that would be a 30-shot rally that's comparable to doing 400M. Those kinds of rallies are rare (at least they are for me) in a match. I think that we had one rally that went about 25 shots yesterday but the average rally was a lot shorter.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2012
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  14. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    Oh ok. I am pulling out old track times. I was running the 100 in under 12 seconds when I ran track in high school, which is decent. My best was around 11.3 and the guys beating me (all went to D1 football programs I think..lol) were running sub 11s, some around 10.1-10.6.

    My 400 was around 56 seconds. So when you are saying 1:33, that actually is not bad. The numbers I am putting up are from when I had 5% Bf and was in perfect shape.

    There is something about sprinting these 100s..it really may be the ticket. It is the first running exercise I have done that really leaves me gasping, so it leads me to believe that is what I need to work on.
     
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  15. maggmaster

    maggmaster Hall of Fame

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    When I am in a sprint training phase I start with a set of 6 100s and 6 50s and then throughout the 4 week microcycle I replace the 50s with 100s.
     
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  16. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    Awesome. I like it. Sign me up.
     
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  17. gatorbait01

    gatorbait01 Rookie

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    Would you mind going over your entire routine?
     
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  18. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    Well put Mag.
     
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  19. movdqa

    movdqa Legend

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    With the 400s, you have to do some pace management as you obviously can't go flat out for that long (at last I can't). You also have to manage your oxygen to some extent.

    I haven't tried the shorter intervals but I would expect that it would be easier to go flat out.

    I don't think that the 400s do more for you than 100s and 200s in tennis. I've only done 400s so far - haven't tried the 100s and 200s. I should give them a try - but I've had a spurt of playing more tennis lately as I've found more people to hit with so the I'm running less. I have easy access to a track so I don't have an excuse for not doing intervals. It would just be a matter of getting up really early in the morning and sneaking off for a while.

    I have the Garmin Forerunner 610 so measuring the intervals would be a piece of cake.
     
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  20. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    Finding the public track near my house is a game changer. It makes it so much more motivating to do this, especially since I can ride my bike there as a warm up/cool down.
     
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  21. maggmaster

    maggmaster Hall of Fame

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    You mean the whole year? That would take a long time. I will give a brief breakdown. I run a periodized routine across the entire year and I break up training into "units". Each microcycle( 4-6 weeks) focuses on a one type of unit. My 4 types are Strength training, endurance training, sprint training and tennis. 1 unit of endurance training is 30 minutes of some form of cardio, one unit of sprint training is either the above sprint workout or a footwork routine which is pretty intense, one unit of strength training is a full body lifting workout or 15 minutes of kettlebell swings with a 20 s on 40 s off tempo, one unit of tennis is 1 hour of hitting or 2 sets of singles or 3 sets of doubles. So my sprint microcycle would look something like this.

    Week 1
    Monday Sprint work 6 100s 6 50s 30 minutes cardio(light) 2 hours of hitting
    Tuesday 30 minutes cardio(light) 1 hours of hitting, 2 sets of singles
    Wednesday Sprint work 6 100s 6 50s 30 minutes cardio(light) 2 hours of hitting
    Thursday 30 minutes cardio(light) 1 hours of hitting, 2 sets of singles
    Friday Sprint work 6 100s 6 50s 30 minutes cardio(light) 2 hours of hitting
    Saturday 3 hours of hitting , weight routine(light)
    Sunday off maybe light hitting if I feel ok

    Week 2 looks about the same but the sprints progress.

    Week 3 More sprint progression

    Week 4 Test Sprint benchmarks and prepare for next microcycle.

    I do this all year with 2 long breaks of about a week and maybe 3 or 4 deloading weeks where I just go really light.
     
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  22. gatorbait01

    gatorbait01 Rookie

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    I wish I had a track to do some of this stuff. I'm wearing a path in the backyard doing suicides. I'd like to add in some straight sprinting to change things up.

    I could try and sneak into a high school track, but I feel kinda weird doing that. I also feel kinda weird sprinting around the neighborhood. My best bet may be to use a local park. One has a big soccer field, the other which is much closer barely has enough room to run some straight 200's.(Measured on google map).
     
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  23. maggmaster

    maggmaster Hall of Fame

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    I played soccer at a reasonably high level, I do all my sprints around soccer fields. Better on the knees.
     
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  24. gatorbait01

    gatorbait01 Rookie

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    maggmaster,

    That routine is intense. Your fitness level must be off the chart. Thanks for posting.
     
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  25. gatorbait01

    gatorbait01 Rookie

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    Do you wear cleats or tennis shoes?
     
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  26. maggmaster

    maggmaster Hall of Fame

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    Just tennis shoes
     
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  27. movdqa

    movdqa Legend

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    > I could try and sneak into a high school track, but I feel
    > kinda weird doing that.

    High-school tracks, like public tennis courts, are public property. I pay for these with my property taxes and income taxes. You might pay for these things with your property, income or sales taxes. Why would you have to sneak onto these?
     
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  28. gatorbait01

    gatorbait01 Rookie

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    ^^ Agreed. You make some good points. I think most are kept locked up so I'd have to jump the fence. If not I wouldn't have a problem.
     
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  29. PED

    PED Legend

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    I used to the Nike Free's but plantar problems caused me to give them up.

    You may want to check out the Brooks Pure flow, it's more minimal at 9oz than most running shoes but not as minimal as the Nikes.

    http://www.runningwarehouse.com/descpageMRS-BPFLOM1.html


    The Brooks put a stop to my foot problems and the padding is nice for my longer 8 milers. They sell them on Running Warehouse site.
     
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  30. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    Those shoes look rather awesome.
     
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  31. movdqa

    movdqa Legend

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    > I think most are kept locked up so I'd have to jump the
    > fence. If not I wouldn't have a problem.

    Your school district or city/town should have policies on the use of athletic and recreational facilities. I would contact the school district administration (Superintendent's office) or the Principal's office at the school where the track is located and ask them for their policies on the track.

    If there are really prohibitive restrictions, then I would consider talking to school board members to look into changing those policies (I work with former school board members, have worked with spouses of school board members and work with a former town council member). If they do have a good reason for keeping them closed (crime, vandelism, etc.), then I'd consider looking for another track in the area.

    I have a track in my town at the high-school. It's not in the best of shape but there's also a track in the next city over where I work and it is in very good shape and it's closer to me than the one in my town and that's the one that I usually use. There are several other tracks in that city too at the high-schools.
     
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  32. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    I called my local running shoe store and they told me all the local tracks. they are all middle schools and tons of people use the field for soccer and run like I do on the track. It's perfect.
     
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  33. gatorbait01

    gatorbait01 Rookie

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    Those are good ideas. Thanks.

    I went to the local park today and ran "poles" on the baseball field. I was doing 30sec runs and 30sec rests for 20 minutes.

    Question I have is towards the end I had no gas for the sprints after 30 secs rests. It was more of a hurried jog. Should I just keep it up until I'm more fit or should I rest more so I can go full out on the latter sprints?
     
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  34. crosscourt

    crosscourt Professional

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    I agree about managing your pace on the 400s. If you are anything like me you can't go flat out and run more than two. I tend to run even times and rest and run for equal periods.

    On the question whether there is any magic in 400m as opposed to another distance I don't know the answer. But I recall that when Murray made a big leap foprward in his fitness he put a lot of it down to running 400s (and that is what is advocated by his fitness coach). I also recall reading somewhere that Wozniacki runs 200s.
     
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  35. Alchemy-Z

    Alchemy-Z Hall of Fame

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    for conditioning:
    I run 2 Miles at 5:00AM Mon-Wed-Fri every week.
    On my Tuesday Night (3hours) Thursday Night (2 hours)
    Tennis practice at 5:30pm (typical temps for us 90-96 with high humidity)

    I wear a cotton T-shirt with a Nike dri-fit shirt on top of that..normally a dark color.

    when I play my matches I normally wear a lighter color and only the dry-fit shirt.

    I've acclimated so well to heat now that it's normally the very end of the first set when I start to sweat and I haven't felt winded in a match in probably since I started this routine.
     
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  36. gatorbait01

    gatorbait01 Rookie

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    I just googled Andy Murray's routine. According to the article in mens' health he starts out with a mile jog and some walking lunges to warm up. He then does 4 400m runs at an easy pace.

    He then does 10 400m runs. Tries to get them all completed within 85s with an 85s rest. He follows that with another cool down mile and some stretching.

    I haven't tried that of course, but it sounds pretty difficult. It's nice to have a goal like that to work towards. I wonder if he aims for that or if he completes the workout meeting his goals.
     
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  37. gatorbait01

    gatorbait01 Rookie

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    By the way, for those doing HIIT I really like the free app HIIT interval timer for you smart phone.
     
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  38. movdqa

    movdqa Legend

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    > Tries to get them all completed within 85s with an 85s rest.

    Good to know that I'm only 8 to 15 seconds slower than Andy Murray.

    BTW, my experience in 400s is that it takes a considerable amount of effort to improve by one second. The amount of time doesn't sound like a lot but I've often felt like I ran considerably harder than the previous one and my time turns out to be the same. To get the best time, everything has to be managed well.

    I imagine that most of us don't play the kinds of points that Andy does - he has some long rallies and he plays a pretty grueling style of tennis. 400s make sense for him.
     
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  39. dman72

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    14 400m runs is ridiculous for anyone other than a pro playing 5 set matches. That would be severe overtraining for any amateur or even a WTA player playing maximum 3 sets.

    I think a combo track workout would be best....after warm up, start with say 2 100, 2 200m, 1 400m sprint and start adding reps as you progress.
     
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  40. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    Well I played tennis last night. My legs are too sore. I need to rest. But I noticed that I was not getting winded nearly as much So this week of running has already helped a little.
     
    #90
  41. maggmaster

    maggmaster Hall of Fame

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    There is no way that you can start at this level. There is probably no reason to ever get to this level. With training it is important to start low, and then progress. Doing this allows the adaptions to take place over time and it gives you room to progress. in addition doing to much too fast will probably lead to injury and frustration.
     
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  42. Boricua

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    Lets see what his routine is when he is 40 and with kids...lol
    In any case, it seems a bit exagerrated routine, I would have to see it to believe it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2012
    #92
  43. r2473

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    Go to any track workout for any high school or college team and you will see very similar routines. And this would be 1 of 7 workouts for the week (interval day). I can find something very simiar in training programs in this book and for time goals that aren't too lofty (probably these interval times might target a 18-20 minute 5K for example):

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0316773026/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&smid=A26J6JNN8TGTL9

    Could a 40 year old man do this workout? Sure, one that has stayed in relatively good running shape. Married with children? There are plenty of guys in this situation that can still squeeze in an hour workout each day. It all depends on what you want and if you choose to manage your time accordingly. Afterall, "married with children" men still find time to watch TV for an hour each day. Wouldn't be so hard to workout instead (if that's what they were dedicated to).

    Keeping the book I linked to above in mind, its always a good idea to "train with purpose". For me, following Coach Allan Lawrence's training routines keeps me from training aimlessly. Each workout compliments the other workouts and are all focused on achieving a particuar goal. Some days you don't feel like doing the scheduled workout, but unless there is a good reason (sickness, injury, etc), you begin to understand what is basically "laziness" (physical or mental) and fight through it, continuing to consistently build up that training base.

    It's fun to "do what you feel like / when you feel like it", but that's not "really" training.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2012
    #93
  44. movdqa

    movdqa Legend

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    I can do this routine and I'm in my 50s. But I'd only do it once a week. I have other workouts that I do on other days. My workout time per day is 30 to 180 minutes depending on work and other demands.
     
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  45. Kevin T

    Kevin T Professional

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    Says the guy with no kids. :)

    How's the recovery going, r2?
     
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  46. r2473

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    ^^ That's true, but I know guys with kids that are in the gym regularly (most of the guys I see in the gym at 6-7 am fit into this category, especially here in mormon country).

    It's going great. I've been back running for a week now. Should start rehab with weights on Monday.

    I've been doing the rehab religiously and have almost 100% ROM back and have worked out the pain in my forearm (something many guys who had the surgery were complaining about ~9 months after the surgery). I've taken to holding a hammer in my injured arm and twisting it with my other arm. The hammer gives me a lot more leverage and allows me to steadily increase my ROM.

    I expect that in 4-6 weeks I will be able to do everything except for lifting heavy weights in the pulling (bicep curls) motion.
     
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  47. movdqa

    movdqa Legend

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    > That's true, but I know guys with kids that are in the
    > gym regularly (most of the guys I see in the gym at 6-7
    > am fit into this category, especially here in mormon country).

    Yeah, our latest Vice President candidate is supposed to do P90X daily - I'd rate P90X as a lot harder than doing Murray's interval routine.
     
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  48. crosscourt

    crosscourt Professional

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    The Murray intervals look like a pretty good target. If you haven't been doing this stuff regularly then start by going to the gym, getting on a treadmill, and running the 400s in something like the time allowed. As you get better you can raise the incline on the treadmill to make it more challenging and also run the laps faster. When you are ready hit the track. But just doing this stuff on a treadmill will help, as well as save your knees and ankles (by comparison with running on the road).
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2012
    #98
  49. r2473

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    Sounds like you've managed to stay in great shape. It's more a question of consistency than anything else. There's a guy in his mid50's that's in the gym at least 4 of 5 weekdays and he's much fitter than the college kids. He doesn't do anything special (several bodyweight exercises and some running on the track), but he's been doing it for so long. My favorite guy to talk to in the gym. Has such a great perspective on things.

    I'll be turning 40 soon and I love to run the out of shape kids around the court. Just does my heart good :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2012
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  50. movdqa

    movdqa Legend

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    My son is working full-time and living in another city. Daughter is in college. I have moderately more free time than when they were younger. Work can get really busy and knock me off my diet/exercise regimen.

    Things like taking care of a relative can also kill the exercise program. I guess it's easier in 50s if the kids are gone or almost gone than the 40s when you have to spend more active time, physically and mentally, with your kids.
     

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