How Not To Handle Not Being Invited

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by Cindysphinx, Nov 30, 2012.

  1. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    15,070
    Ah, boy. New ratings are out, new teams are forming. And once again, people are asking to join teams I captain.

    There seem to be two types of requests.

    The first type is an email: "Hey, Cindy. I'm looking for a 4.0 ladies team. Do you have an opening?" This is perfectly acceptable networking. If I have a slot for you, I will invite you. If I don't, I will say that and will help you find another team if you want the help.

    The second type, though. The second type is a whine. This is the person who comes up to me and says, "I see you didn't invite me onto your 4.0 team."

    Come on, people. If you aren't already on someone's team, they are under no obligation to make room for you just because you are friends. If someone is forming a brand new team, they are entitled to try to find the most suitable assortment of players they can. And if you hope to play up and no one invites you, the issue is almost certainly that your tennis is not good enough for the higher level yet.

    I dunno. There seems to be a huge sense of entitlement among a lot of ladies. If they know you are captaining and you don't invite them, they are hurt. Me, I have struggled to get on various teams many times. I do not take it personally -- I figure it is all about the tennis. If I improve, I will have more offers than I can accept.

    Can we maybe stop harassing captains and just let them put together the team however they like?
     
    #1
  2. texacali

    texacali Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2012
    Messages:
    228
    I've been fortunate that in my short league life, I have been invited to join a couple of teams. Curious to see if I will be considered for a senior team this winter. No big deal if not....Lord knows I need time to work on my game.
     
    #2
  3. dizzlmcwizzl

    dizzlmcwizzl Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2010
    Messages:
    2,172
    Location:
    DE
    Seems to me that this might be a man / woman thing. I am a newly bumped player. I have friends at the next level and a couple have already invited me to play, but I know that I will be one of the last off the bench.

    I wont get hurt or upset if I dont play, and I certainly wont begrudge any captain that does not invite me ... because I know my level of play is at the bottom of the next rating. I am not as sexy (to 4.5 captains) and I know it. I genuinely think this is true of most men.

    Based on my casual observations of my wife, daughters and female friends I think women associate inclusion with whether they are liked or not. If this is true, I gotta believe that this point of view creates some additional challenges for you as a captain of a women's tennis team.
     
    #3
  4. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    15,070
    Yup. I know a 4.0 captain who struggled with the decision about whether to invite her 3.5 BFF. The captain invited the BFF.

    By season's end, the BFF was complaining that she only got to play a few times. BFF actually said that had she known she wouldn't get to play a lot, she would have joined a different team.
     
    #4
  5. LuckyR

    LuckyR Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2006
    Messages:
    6,404
    Location:
    The Great NW
    Tennis, of course, is just a microcosm of life itself. Why would you expect the Great Unwashed to suddenly have a better perspective on interpersonal relationships and communication just because the subject matter happen to be League Tennis?
     
    #5
  6. Douggo

    Douggo Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Messages:
    549
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Cindy, I'm guessing you look at the tennis much more objectively than most.
    "It's all about the tennis" probably is just as hurtful as "it's all about whether I like you" to most. Player A is not likely to accept that he/she is not as good as Player B, unless that fact is ridiculously clear.
     
    #6
  7. jswinf

    jswinf Professional

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2009
    Messages:
    1,143
    Maybe you should carry some cheese to offer to go with the whine.
     
    #7
  8. hobnob

    hobnob New User

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2010
    Messages:
    18
    I somewhat agree

    As a women, I have been fortunate enough to currently have teams invite me to play for them now. I wouldn't say that was so when i first started out, but the last year it definitely has been.

    I think for women, the decision to invite that person onto the team has more to do with than just play style, I think it also goes to team dynamics... maybe that new person might not gel with the current players? Not all captains think about that, but I certainly know a few that do.

    when I play my level, I expect to play enough matches, but when I play up, I only expect 2 matches (to qualify for any playoffs etc matches and to get my $25 worth in fees) or a bit more. However, I do notice that a lot of captains are hung up on ratings as well... so even if I'm playing up and even if I'm better than some of the ladies on the team with the proper rating, I will not get to play as much as them. Of course, a friend of mine was kind enough to inform me that's b/c the captain is trying to only be fair and let the proper rated players play more (since I am playing up, it's an extra team).

    Anyway... a person's tennis ability may not be the only factor in not getting invited on a team... there are a lot of other factors... at least that's my experience with the ladies league. Also, the men's league has WAAAY less drama period.
     
    #8
  9. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    15,070
    Yeah, there can be a bias against those who are playing up. Much of it is based on tennis skill. But some of it is not.

    As a captain, I can tell you that I will get an earful if I pair a 3.5 with a 4.0 if the 3.5 isn't up to the job. That means I have to look for 4.0s who are willing to have a partner who is weaker on paper. I also have to find opponents where my gals will have a decent shot. It's a pretty big headache.

    That said, I can cut folks a break because I know lots of 3.5s I would rather have as partners instead of some 4.0s.
     
    #9
  10. beernutz

    beernutz Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2005
    Messages:
    4,411
    Location:
    expanding my Ignore List
    [​IMG]
     
    #10
  11. anubis

    anubis Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    3,013
    I'm sure the ladies that get offended by not being "invited", easily get offended throughout their day, relatively easily, by almost anyone in their lives. You just happen to get the tennis-end of their worries. I feel sorry for their significant others...
     
    #11
  12. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    35,041
    Cindy wields too much power.
     
    #12
  13. Maui19

    Maui19 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2010
    Messages:
    1,655
    IMO, it's more of a woman thing than anything else. Many of the same qualities that we love in women create these kinds of problems from time to time. My club was forced to create some rules about who could and couldn't participate on club teams because a couple of women got so bent out of shape at not being invited to play. No probs with the men on this issue though.
     
    #13
  14. NumbersGuy

    NumbersGuy Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2012
    Messages:
    153
    Absolutely the same thing I see with the teams my wife captains and plays on. Being invited, and being in the lineup, equate to "being liked". They'll even use that particular expression. With the mens' teams I captain, I wouldn't say there's no drama, but it's all of the I-think-I'm-better-than-him kind. At least that drama is about the tennis. I often wonder why I keep captaining, but I REALLY wonder why she does! But like Maui says, it's all part of the package.
     
    #14
  15. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    15,070
    I think something else is going on.

    Back in the day, etiquette had certain rules about invitations to events. If you realized you were not invited to something, you pretended this didn't bother you. You would never approach the host and ask why you weren't invited. Rude and awkward. By the same token, the host and other guests did not discuss the event in your presence to avoid rudeness and awkwardness.

    Now we live in a time when it is OK to confront people, to get things off your chest, to be open, to assert your rights, to get closure. That leads people to ask why they weren't invited -- to weddings, to parties, to tennis teams.

    It would be nice if folks could go back to just assuming that they cannot be invited to everything in life and accepting it.
     
    #15
  16. beernutz

    beernutz Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2005
    Messages:
    4,411
    Location:
    expanding my Ignore List
    Welcome to the new millineum Cindy. :)
     
    #16
  17. r2473

    r2473 Legend

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    Messages:
    7,014
    Really :shock:
     
    #17
  18. NumbersGuy

    NumbersGuy Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2012
    Messages:
    153
    If that were the root cause then I would think we would see the men doing the same thing, but we don't seem to be seeing that.
     
    #18
  19. Gemini

    Gemini Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2004
    Messages:
    1,586
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Sounds like that person that sent the " I see you didn't invite me.." is harboring some existing issues. When people send me stuff like that, I take it that I've offended them in some way previously that I, personally, am not aware of. Still, that's his/her issue..not mine. And a message like that is a surefire way to make sure you NEVER receive an invite from me...for anything...ever!

    And you're right, people need to stop assuming that they'll be invited to every event. There's a lot of competition out there and you may not be the best fit for the "job".
     
    #19
  20. dcdoorknob

    dcdoorknob Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2010
    Messages:
    3,560
    So, I noticed you didn't ask for my opinion on this topic.

    Fine. Whatever.
     
    #20
  21. floridatennisdude

    floridatennisdude Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2012
    Messages:
    1,968
    This is the "me first" generation

    It fights teachers for their kids grade, parks its mini van in spots marked compact, sues a business when it trips over Caution tape, sits at an AYCE buffet for lunch and dinner, etc. In a nutshell, there are no rules of etiquette. There are only wants.
     
    #21
  22. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2007
    Messages:
    2,734

    Yup.......
     
    #22
  23. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    15,070
    What do guys do, anyway? If one guy has his buddies over to watch the game, do the ones who weren't invited ever learn about it or care?
     
    #23
  24. wrxinsc

    wrxinsc Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2010
    Messages:
    1,400
    Location:
    Cackalacky South
    opposite really. cindy needs teh more powers.
     
    #24
  25. wrxinsc

    wrxinsc Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2010
    Messages:
    1,400
    Location:
    Cackalacky South
    YES

    [​IMG]
     
    #25
  26. emilyhex

    emilyhex Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2012
    Messages:
    209
    The solution is simple: choose not to captain a team and be relieved of all the headaches. Let someone else deal with it.
     
    #26
  27. travlerajm

    travlerajm Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2006
    Messages:
    4,415
    Easy solution.

    If someone asks you to be on the team, you can tell her:
    "I have a lot of strong ladies on the team, so I can't guarantee that you would get a chance to play any matches." If she still want to join your team under that circumstance, then let her sign up, since obviously it's not about the tennis for her - it's about her need to feel included.

    If someone whines about not being invited, tell her:
    "I have a lot of strong ladies on the team, and I didn't think it would be fair to you to invite you if it was unlikely that you'd get a chance to play a match."

    The only way these exchanges might become awkward would be if the player had an overly inflated view of her own skill level.
     
    #27
  28. dizzlmcwizzl

    dizzlmcwizzl Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2010
    Messages:
    2,172
    Location:
    DE
    We are so self centered that even when we are told there was a party that we missed, we ignore them because it did not pertain to us.
     
    #28
  29. dizzlmcwizzl

    dizzlmcwizzl Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2010
    Messages:
    2,172
    Location:
    DE
    that never happens ...
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2012
    #29
  30. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2009
    Messages:
    10,577
    Several 3.5 GOATs in my section were forsaken for a multitude of low-end 4.0s with defensive slice backhands.

    Epic League shenanigans.
     
    #30
  31. Maui19

    Maui19 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2010
    Messages:
    1,655
    Only the metrosexuals.
     
    #31
  32. Maui19

    Maui19 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2010
    Messages:
    1,655
    LOL Nicely done.
     
    #32
  33. NumbersGuy

    NumbersGuy Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2012
    Messages:
    153
    I think guys tend to treat social occasions and competitive sports teams differently. If we didn't get invited to watch the football, yeah, we'd probably get a little hacked. The women seem to treat their sports teams as an extension of social occasion, from what I can tell.
     
    #33
  34. Roforot

    Roforot Professional

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2004
    Messages:
    1,198
    Do unto others...

    One day, you may be the one left behind.
     
    #34
  35. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    15,070
    I have been left behind. I have tried to get on an 8.5 team. No luck. I am not hurt.

    The solution is to improve.
     
    #35
  36. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2009
    Messages:
    10,577
    The next step is to turn off your Internet connection and prepare for your epic TT Exho YouTube enabled battle video with suresh.

    Faith.

    Courage.

    Honor.
     
    #36
  37. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2004
    Messages:
    4,862
    Win or die trying. Trample those who get in the way. Satisfaction is being the biggest fish in the smallest ocean.
     
    #37
  38. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    35,041
    Played for 3 hours today in 74 degrees sun. Singles and doubles. I am ready for Cindy.
     
    #38
  39. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    15,070
    74 degrees is too hot for me.

    How do people survive heat like that?
     
    #39
  40. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2009
    Messages:
    10,577
    Wield forth thine KPS 88 and ascend into TT GOATHood.

    Respect.

    Integrity.

    Freedom.
     
    #40
  41. 3fees

    3fees Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2010
    Messages:
    2,033
    Location:
    NorCal
    Captains should pick the best thats available and developing, there will always be persons who feel they should have been included,part of the headache of being a captain..


    :mrgreen:
     
    #41
  42. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2011
    Messages:
    13,033
    Location:
    In the future
    I doubt that person has issues. I am sure she felt like she should have been invited and wasn't so probably was wondering why ? maybe she is wondering she was wronged in someway or she offended cindy as a friend
     
    #42
  43. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2011
    Messages:
    13,033
    Location:
    In the future
    yea but you can't just dump people that's been with the team for years just cause they suck now or isn't as good as division winning team you are trying to build
     
    #43
  44. andfor

    andfor Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2004
    Messages:
    4,862
    #44
  45. NumbersGuy

    NumbersGuy Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2012
    Messages:
    153
    Agree with Nostradamus. I've seen many teams (and captained one) that dumped a bunch of old players in favor of new, stronger ones. Created a bunch of ill will, which of course was expected, but perhaps more importantly the teams always self-destructed at the end of the year.
     
    #45
  46. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    15,070
    It's more complicated than that.

    I'm not trying to build a division-winning team. I think what people don't understand that it is very hard as captain to take/keep bad players on a roster.

    It's the same thing every time we have a much weaker player on the roster. No one wants to partner with them. If I spread the pain by giving them several different partners, they complain that they have a revolving door of partners. If I don't play them a lot, they complain that they are riding the bench.

    Add in the fact that captaining a bottom-feeding team makes it very, very hard to recruit. So even if we are not playoff bound, I would like my teams to make a respectable showing.

    The answer to all of this is: If you want to be invited onto teams, improve you tennis.
     
    #46
  47. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2009
    Messages:
    10,577
    Nostradamus is looking very strong.

    May win TTPOATYEC.
     
    #47
  48. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2011
    Messages:
    13,033
    Location:
    In the future
    If they are like the weakest player, they usually know that. That is what I had found. and they know they won't get any much playing time as the strongest players. And when I am a captain, I usually just put them at #3 doubles when we play bottom 1/3 division teams. and that usually works out. These weaker or weakest players don't want to play when we play the top 1/3 division teams anyway.
     
    #48
  49. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    15,070
    Do the weaker players know they are weaker?

    Nope.

    I think if I told the two weakest players on any team I have captained that they are the weakest player, they would disagree and take great offense.
     
    #49
  50. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2009
    Messages:
    10,577
    Most 3.5 GOATs ascend to higher levels in their own minds when playing in front of an audience. Especially during playoffs.

    In 4.0 Queens Districts last year I saw a doubles team bust out into spontaneous 5.0 level volley and passing shot epic-ness, far beyond 4.0. Absolutely GOATed.

    But they went on to Sectionals and got crushed by 4.5 samdbaggarz playing 4.0 for USTA league death glory.
     
    #50

Share This Page