How similar is Murray to Miloslav Mecir?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Oceansize, Feb 1, 2010.

  1. Oceansize

    Oceansize Rookie

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    I'm too young to remember Mecir, but i recall people saying Murray has a similar playing style to him. Looking at Mecir's career, it seems uncanny that he made 2 slam finals (US & AO) and was straight setted both times by the guy generally considered the best of his era, Ivan Lendl. Mecir also retired early due to a back problem, which Murray has also had trouble with recently.

    So do you think Murray could end up with a similar career to Mecir, ie never winning a slam but maybe grabbing an Olympic gold, like Mecir did in 88?
     
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  2. World Beater

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    murray is like a male hingis with a big serve.
     
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  3. Gaudio2004

    Gaudio2004 Semi-Pro

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    Mecir and Murray's backhand strokes are 100% identical; Murray has more talent than Mecir though, no doubt.
     
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  4. Oceansize

    Oceansize Rookie

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    Are you sure Murray is more talented than Mecir? Looking at older posts about Mecir, a lot of people seemed to think he was one of the most natuarlly talented players ever. At this point in Murray's career, he's still behind Mecir who made Semis at FO and won Olympics, as well as being runner up at US & AO. Also, Mecir played in arguably the strongest era of mens tennis, so his record is maybe even more impressive.

    I'm not sure why most people think Murray will win a slam. Isn't it more likely that he'll will end up like Mecir as being one of the most naturally talented players whose playing style is not suited to winning slams?
     
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  5. Wilander Fan

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    First time I heard of the comparison but it is very appropriate. Mecir was deadly against the baseline specialists, particularly clay court top spinner. he had great court coverage and varied his spin on his ground strokes and was kind of a sneaky player in that he would engage in rythm rallies with players and then suddenly shoot out a flat shot in an unexpected place. He seemed to keep the ball on his racket longer and players would often comment it was very difficult to tell where he would be hitting the ball. He had a great head to head record against the Swedes of his time who were all basically pushers but ran into trouble against players who could dictate points like Lendle.

    It makes sense that Murry would do well against Nadal since he is pretty close to the likes of Mats Wilander, Nystrom, Jarryd etc.
     
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  6. jaggy

    jaggy G.O.A.T.

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    They are alike in movement for sure
     
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  7. Marius_Hancu

    Marius_Hancu G.O.A.T.

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    Both of them are/were able to absorb the speed of the ball, great hands

    Mecir was lighter on his feet, more flexible than Murray, and his ball had, IMO, more top and more disguise. However, not as strong as Murray, nor having such a great serve.

    Murray will get to no 1 sooner or later, which didn't happen with Mecir. The timing depends on Federer:)
     
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  8. bluetrain4

    bluetrain4 Legend

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    Not exactly the same. But, it's an apt comparison.
     
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  9. C++ Primer

    C++ Primer Rookie

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    Dementieva is most similar to Miloslav Mecir
     
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  10. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    LOL. That's one of the most hilarious statements I've seen on these forums. EPIC FAIL!
     
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  11. davey25

    davey25 Banned

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    I dont think they are that similar. Mecir was such a smoother stroker and mover. Murray has a very crafty and diverse game, but very different in nature. Murray will definitely pan out to be the better player IMO, and probably already is, but Mecir never fulfilled his potential due to all his injury problems. Plus his mental block vs Lendl.
     
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  12. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Except for one match where he humiliated Lendl, both on the tennis court and in sense of humour. The talent Mecir showed in that match was simply brilliant. I've scarcely seen better in all my time watching tennis. Mats Wilander absolutely hated playing Mecir because he could only beat him by focusing and thinking 100% throughout the entire match. If Wilander made a bad start or lost his composure for a while, Mecir would have him completely trapped in his web of magic and would then proceed to dish out a masterclass in tennis.

    To be honest, I don't see the comparisons with Andy Murray. Mecir's movement is far superior while Murray's defence and consistency is far superior. Mecir had lots of days when he was way off his game. Murray doesn't have too many.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2010
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  13. rod99

    rod99 Professional

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    both are/were great movers so mecir certainly doesn't have far superior movement. murray is one of the best movers, if not the best mover, in the game. murray's serve is much better than mecir. both had/have better backhands than forehands. mecir was more versatile in that he came in more.
     
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  14. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Mecir glided on the court in a way nobody else ever has. He scarcely looked like he was moving his feet at all and yet he could be so fast. Mecir was all natural talent and instinct, while Murray is a lot more methodical.
     
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  15. rod99

    rod99 Professional

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    either way, neither one has far more superior movement than the other.
     
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  16. I agree with this, and i want to add that Murray is more powerful than The Cat ever was with a much bigger 1st serve.
     
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  17. Rorsach

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  18. Oceansize

    Oceansize Rookie

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    Looking at this clip - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_34nkKIUXc, it looks like Tomic is more similar to Mecir in terms of ball striking, as they both seem to swing the racket in slow motion. However, Mecir's movement and tactics appear to be much the same as Murray's, ie. hit mid court medium pace balls, wait for an error or counter punch.
     
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  19. pc1

    pc1 Legend

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    Maybe, but I do even wonder about that with the rackets we have now.

    I'm a big Murray fan. I like his overall game but Mecir is one of the most gifted players that I have ever seen. Mecir glided across the court and his hands were unbelievable. He could hit angles and shots Murray wouldn't even dream of and his volley was extremely underrated. He was an excellent volleyer, something that you can't say about Murray. Granted I do think Murray is a decent volleyer. When Mecir was on his game, he could make players like Wilander look like rank beginnings. I've never seen a player like Mecir and I doubt if I ever will again.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae7lyHnuOdw
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZX9OloLbiY&NR=1
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2bzlj4ypvw
     
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  20. I agree, Mats Wilander- One of the alltime greats and legends of the game and a great strategical player himself said in 1988: (His best year with 3 GS-wins) "I simply have NO idea how to beat this guy"
     
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  21. Gorecki

    Gorecki G.O.A.T.

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    The comparison seems to be quite reasonable taking into account that there are 20 years of distance...

    but Mecir was way way more naturally gifted...

    btw, OP: kudos for the only really interesting thread in the last days
     
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  22. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    That was after their 1988 Wimbledon quarter final match when Mecir won 6-3, 6-1, 6-3, Wilander's only major loss that year.

    I actually think Mecir is more similar to Nalbandian, especially with the angles created on the court.
     
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  23. pmerk34

    pmerk34 Legend

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    Rolling eyes... Mecir was one of the most talented players ever? Shouldn't he have gotten some better results then? His 1986 effort vs Ivan in the USO (or Czechoslovakian Open final as Newsday so aptly put on the Sports Page that year.) capped off one of the most boring Slams ever. Sure he could have a magical day day such as 1988 when he blitzed Mats Wilander in the Wimbledon quarters but I don't remember him being a serious threat to be number one in the world.
     
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  24. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    Boring? Because the US players did poorly at that tournament, and only Tim Wilkison got to the quarter finals out of the American players? That semi final with Mecir vs. Becker was simply brilliant, as was Lendl's win over Leconte in the quarter finals and Mecir's win over Wilander in the fourth round.

    And it's true that Mecir never became a serious threat at becoming number 1, although Wilander backed Mecir to do it one day. Mecir was too inconsistent to be number 1 as he had too many matches where he looked ordinary.
     
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  25. pmerk34

    pmerk34 Legend

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    It was awful, y and his final vs Lendl was a snoozefest as was the other all Czech affair on the women's side.
     
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  26. Mustard

    Mustard Talk Tennis Guru

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    The final wasn't good, I'll give you that. Mecir played poor after the close first set.
     
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  27. Oceansize

    Oceansize Rookie

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    Sorry, i just saw quite a few threads where people made out that he was an amazing talent. Like i said, i never saw him play, and there's not many clips of him on youtube to get much of an idea of his talent.

    With regards to getting better results, i don't think this is the best way to measure talent, as things like physical & mental strength can be almost more important. It might be a confusion over the definition of natural talent, as i mean it in terms of tennis skill, as oppossed to power, determination etc.
     
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  28. Oceansize

    Oceansize Rookie

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    Thanks for the positive feedback. As this was my first post, i was antiicipating more comments along the lines of "not another post concerning murray, he's just a pusher", so it's been a nice suprise that people have provide thoughtful responses.
     
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  29. daveyboy

    daveyboy Rookie

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    It was Mecir's first Slam final, and Lendl had the game that could beat Mecir. If asked who's more talented between Murray and Mecir, I'd have to give a slight edge to Mecir because of his movement. He did more with less. Murray has lots of variety from a spin standpoint, but Mecir was extremely crafty. Oh, did I mention that he moved as well as Fed, if not better?

    I have to say, though, Murray has worked really hard to become a better mover and tactician. Lets ask this same question a year from now if Murray continues to improve.
     
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  30. borg number one

    borg number one Legend

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    There are some definite parallels between the two. Though not many ever expected Mecir to challenge for the top spot in Tennis during his career. The expectations for Murray are a bit higher.

    He's got some impressive accomplishments, such as reaching 2 slam finals, winning the Olympic gold medal in 1988 and beating Edberg at Wimbledon (no mean feat).

    He frustrated a lot of the more powerful top players in the 80's with his playing style.

    Check out these Youtube clips to get an idea of his play:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGlvPu-PE24 (Mecir vs. Wilander)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_34nkKIUXc (Mecir vs. Lendl)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwy15etlLgI (Mecir vs. Lendl, see Mecir making fun of Lendl's complaints about the "towels".)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKHe88CHj1U (Mecir vs. Edberg)
     
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  31. Oceansize

    Oceansize Rookie

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    Thanks for the links! I can definitely why lots of people have fond memories of Mecir. He seems to have a unique and smooth style. Some of the shots he hits are genius. From what i've seen he seems to be more skillful than Murray.

    It's interesting that in the clip against Wilander he appears to be playing a lot more aggressively than he did against Lendl. To me, this is reminiscent of how Murray changes his gameplan against Nadal compared to when he plays Federer. Maybe, they both needed to worry less about the opponent, and just play assertively every match, rather than just against Wilander/Nadal. I suppose having lots of options can be both a blessing and a curse at times.
     
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  32. borg number one

    borg number one Legend

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    Exactly, I agree. Murray may be well served if he just plays his Game, with more aggressive play, and then force opponents to react to HIM, as opposed to vice versa. Good point.
     
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  33. Oceansize

    Oceansize Rookie

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    I wonder if Murray needs someone to spell this out to him, as it has been apparent for a while now, but he keeps making the same mistake. It would have been much better if he had played aggressively against Federer throughout the AO final and lost badly, as opposed to playing slightly passively and almost guaranteeing he would lose. At least by playing aggressively there's a slight chance he could win, and it would have had the additional effect of putting more pressure on Federer, if he could have seen Murray was going to go for it. Federer mentioned afterwards that he was the one he was more willing to step up try and win the trophy, rather than sit back and just hope he might win.
     
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  34. borg number one

    borg number one Legend

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    As Becker suggested in a recent interview: ask Connors, McEnroe, or perhaps some other past champion who could get Murray to listen. Connors would be great, for even one year. I think Connors helped get Roddick to change his mindset somewhat for example. McEnroe is a tennis genius as well. There's no substitute for the knowledge that past champions have. They see the Game quite differently than even the average pro.
     
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  35. djokovicgonzalez2010

    djokovicgonzalez2010 G.O.A.T.

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    If Mercir was better that could scarcely be a good sign for Muzzy. And person who said mercir made fo semis, muzz made wimby semis
     
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  36. Oceansize

    Oceansize Rookie

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    I guess part of the problem may be that Murray is stuborn, and doesn't like anyone else telling him what he should or shouldn't do. I think that's why it didn't work out with Brad Gilbert. His current coach seems like a nice guy, who is more of a mate than a coach, and that's probably how Murray likes it. I suppose playing aggressively seems an easy thing to just decide to do, but in reality it's changing your whole mindset, and Murray is perhaps just defensive by nature, so it's a lot easier said than done. It may just come down to Murray having to decide how much he really wants to win a slam, ie. is he really prepared to change his mental approach.
     
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  37. Oceansize

    Oceansize Rookie

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    Ah, yeah but no but, Mecir also made wimby semi, so Murray's slam record is currently worst, as he's only made QF at FO.
     
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  38. Gorecki

    Gorecki G.O.A.T.

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    well. that is because you actually came up with a novel idea and created a insightfull debate unlike most bashing\praising threads created in the last days...
     
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  39. Oceansize

    Oceansize Rookie

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    Thanks, but i can't take credit for it, as i only realised Mecir had lost his two slam finals when someone mentioned it in another thread. The coincidence that Murray had lost his two finals similarly seemed odd to me, as i knew Murray's playing style had been compared to Mecir's.
     
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  40. Oceansize

    Oceansize Rookie

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    That's more like it, just the sought of insightful response i was hoping for :)
     
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  41. Gorecki

    Gorecki G.O.A.T.

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    [​IMG]
     
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  42. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    Thanks for those clips, just be aware, the clip of Mecir making fun of Lendl looks like a copy. I would suggest linking to the original instead: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1zkNyxSrzE
     
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  43. borg number one

    borg number one Legend

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    Gotcha, thanks Krosero. You're youtube clips are always awesome. Let me check it out this one as well though.
     
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  44. pmerk34

    pmerk34 Legend

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    As usual, Lendl with no sense of humor curses Mecir.
     
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  45. krosero

    krosero Legend

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    On a similar note I've thought of something else. Can you email me? (I have that option open in my profile).
     
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  46. Wilander Fan

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    I dont think it was strategy or mental toughness Mecir had over Wilander. The low flat ball he hit was very difficult for the baseliners because he disguised it so well.
     
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  47. Wilander Fan

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    He had a very low percentage game as he hit the ball very flat and deep. He also did not match up well against guys who hit with alot of pace. This made him very dangerous but inconsistent. Andy Murray kind of went into Mecir mode when he played Nadal.
     
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  48. Cyan

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    So many coincidences.....
     
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  49. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    It's only uncanny if you think Murray has peaked, will never make another slam final, and won't win any more tournaments. Mecir won 10 titles in his career and made number 4. He had one really hot season where he won six of those titles.

    Murray has been ranked 2, and has won more titles in the last 2 seasons than Mecir won in his entire career.
     
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  50. Agree, Mecir shouldnt be mentioned in the same sentence as Murray, they play somewhat similar though. But their career will obviously be very different, also, Mecir was good at beating the world no 1 Wilander (4-5 times)...Murray has beaten Fed 6 times
     
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