How Strokes are Taught 2!

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Ash_Smith, May 12, 2011.

  1. Ash_Smith

    Ash_Smith Hall of Fame

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    Okay, so it seems we lost the last thread (probably due to some of the posts being less than professional), however there was a lot of useful information and interesting debate in there which has been lost sadly.

    So, I propose this time we keep it civil and professional :) sure it may be less fun but at least it might stick around!

    To begin then...Coaches and other interested parties, where do you stand on the issue of whether to teach racquet head technique first, footwork positions/patterns first or both at the same time when working with a beginner adult? If they don't have the swing they can't control the ball, but if they don't move to the ball correctly they can't hit it anyway. What are your thoughts/theories/teaching habits?

    Please feel free to add any other coaching system related questions to the thread - hopefully we can share some great methodologies/systems

    Cheers

    Ash
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2011
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  2. tennis_balla

    tennis_balla Hall of Fame

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    Hmm thats a good question. I guess it mainly depends on who you're teaching as beginners. If its little kids, its easier to start off on the footwork stuff and hand eye co-ordination fun drills. With adults most of them wanna be able to hit the ball, so technique is important to them.
    It also depends what they wanna get out of tennis and how they treat it. Ask a middle aged man or woman to run around the court with you to get warmed up and do some footwork movements while running and chances are most will hate it. I'm speaking from experience here. Some love it however, depends on the individual.

    As for me, I sneak in the footwork stuff and combine it with what I'm working on with them. For example theres a guy I'm coaching now who wants to get back into playing tennis again. Good guy but sometimes doesn't want to move his feet much. I'll use the first half of the lesson for technique oriented drills or hitting and the second half move him around while still keeping him under control so he doesn't lose what we've been working on but also learns to use it in either a live ball situation or a movement drill where he's forced to move, adjust, recover and so on and get a good sweat going. He'll come off the court tired sweating, so its good.
     
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  3. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    I have had success with beginning adults ground strokes first.

    1. Grip and ready position.
    2. Split step
    3. Take back with 2 hands.
    4. Release and extend down the line.
    5. Racquet drop
    6. Contact point.
    7. Follow through.

    Once they have it automatic, move them a little with hand feeds. Allow their natural footwork at first, then correct as needed.

    But the adults want to hit as soon as possible. They are paying the bill and rightly so want to start hitting the balls!
     
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  4. MyLifeIsBro

    MyLifeIsBro Banned

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    In college coaches either teach you to push or blast the ball both prove to be very ineffective :-D
     
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  5. theZig

    theZig Rookie

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    I personally teach them to hit first, because if you can teach them to hit and they notice they cannot hit properly on the move, that motivates them to get better at moving, whereas if they can move, but cannot properly hit, they simply get frustrated and begin to lose motivation
     
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  6. boojay

    boojay Hall of Fame

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    Yes, this is exactly my thought process. Based on my own experience learning the game, the less I have to think about, the better. That is, if I have to chase down a ball just to hit it, my mechanics go out the window. If there are too many little things that need to be done in order to just hit the ball, it makes it THAT much harder to learn how to hit the ball.
     
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  7. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    Just did a lesson with a player where I made no mention of feeling the ball, but worked on the player getting under the ball with his strokes for better TS and leading with his hand for volleys and slices. These terms may not be very descriptive here, but fit well in the context of the lesson and related to some things he could improve. He was a 4.0 that also has played well and won several matches in the 4.5 league this year.

    After the lesson where he believed he was hitting better than ever, he kept going on and on about how this was helping him to see the ball so well, and it seemed as big as a basketball out there. He also kept saying how he was feeling the ball way more than usual and that his feel was amazing during the practice.

    My point is that while some have no appreciation for "feel" and how it works with MTM instruction, it is amazing how often that is the word we hear when our players describe how it helps them.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2011
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  8. Ash_Smith

    Ash_Smith Hall of Fame

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    For me Feel is the most important part of developing a swing. Coaches work to develop correct swing habits but I'm sure most don't thing of it as helping the player develop the correct feeling.

    The question I ask the most in lessons is probably "how did that feel" and I use a lot of mental visualisation techniques to allow the player to compare how it felt in reality to how it felt in the "perfect" rendition in their head. This is one of the best learning tools to my mind.

    cheers
     
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  9. ext2hander

    ext2hander Rookie

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    For teaching small kids, I found that eliminating the net as an obstruction works best. Park the kid at the baseline, and you at the service line. Then lightly hit balls to the kid, so he/she can return in your general direction. You are better, so you can react and gently place the ball back to them. Keep it fun. I've seen so many parents trying to get this child to hit over a relatively tall net. The net gets in the way when starting.

    I used to hit with my daughter when she was 4-5 years old -- on the sloped driveway. I stood in the gutter, and she stood at top of driveway. The driveway slope tends to make the ball sit up, and easier to hit. She became famous for her driveway tennis -- many years later, as we'd meet other parents in middle school. Before that, i.e. 3-4 in winter, we hit those 4" foam balls in the entryway, just to learn the basic stroke pattern, i.e. long backswing, closed racquet face, meet ball in front square. No racquet, just the palm of hand, or ping-ping paddle. By 5-6, she had this long, loopy swing for forehand, and picked up a natural 2-hand backhand, better than my son who went on to become an excellent NorCal Jr tournament player.
     
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  10. eliza

    eliza Guest

    Great thread!!! Seriously, do you coaches give 100% when is an adult player who pays?
    Say the player wants to hit WWFH, do you follow this, or do you ask the player to just listen and try what you think best.
    What factors make you choose a "style"for the student's strokes?
     
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  11. Ash_Smith

    Ash_Smith Hall of Fame

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    Not sure I can agree with that I'm afraid, I would certianly lower the net right down (proportionate to their size), but for me that barrier must always be there or you're not teaching tennis. If you were teaching other, related skills (racquet face control, hand/eye co-ord etc) then fair enough, net not required, but anytime I'm asking the child to make a contact/swing then I want the net there so they learn the correct feeling - the ball has to go up!

    Cheers
     
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  12. ext2hander

    ext2hander Rookie

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    Hands Tracking technique

    Recently, my daughter's 8th grade friend wanted to learn, to get on the high-school team next year. So I recalled a technique a local pro had used on my son -- when he was 6. Because the newbie often fails to turn the shoulder, and does not know what to do with the non-hitting arm, we started with the usual eastern forehand grip and turned sideways with feel positioned ahead.

    I instructed her to keep both hands fairly close together, as she turned and hit the forehand. For right-hand player, the left hand trails the right-hand by 3-6 inches on backswing and foreswing. Guess what? The shoulders fully turn! Using a classic high finish, she would grab racket with the left hand and hold -- check the position, does it look right, nice and high (no windshield wiper action yet!!!) We worked out for 1.5 hours total, and she had pretty much gotten the basic stroke pattern. Eventually, she could point with the left hand, rather than tracking the right, but only after the shoulder turn was ingrained.

    I said I would teach her only one thing, i.e. hands tracking together. In reality, by gentling nudging her stroke form, she learned to start with racquet way back behind the both and face closed, low-to-high swing, high finish, racquet face square at contact, wrist layback for long contact zone, knee bend and lift, and rear foot toe-tip. If I said I'd teach her 10 elements in an hour, she probably could not do it. I've tried all kinds of techniques in the past, but using the tracking hands seemed to allow everything else to be nudged in-place -- easily! I was quite amazed.

    The week prior, I tried a more common technique on another 8th grade friend, i.e. show basic foot stance, stroke pattern, etc. Only minimal success was achieved, but I noticed the non-hitting arm did not seem to know what to do. Telling the player to point with non-hitting arm is difficult. Next time I get a chance, I will use the hands tracking method on her, too.

    Try this on a middle school or early high-school kid. The hands tracking technique will also work for any adult, who need to improve their shoulder turn in conjunction with full racquet backswing.
     
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  13. Ash_Smith

    Ash_Smith Hall of Fame

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    As glib as it may sound, I can't not give 100%. The person on the other side of the net is paying me their hard earned money, they deserve nothing less that my best lesson, whether it's my first or last lesson of the day!

    Good question about style though. For me, with adult players i'll ask them what they want to achieve and what their commitment is likely to be and go from there. If they're a social player and don't have much time to practice but want to improve a bit then I'll probably work with what they have and make it as good as possible, rather than make big changes. If their ambition is to play club first team tennis and they are up for the challenge them maybe we'll change their strokes or start from scratch (5000 repetitions anybody!?).

    It really depends on the individual! With kids (the vast majority of my work), I have my thoughts on how they should develop and what the strokes to need to have and look like, so we'll start on that path straight away.

    Cheers
     
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  14. ext2hander

    ext2hander Rookie

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    Having no net is the same idea, as long as you promoted the child to bloop, flip, hit the ball back any way the can. Of course, with some upward motion. First, they need to get coordinated, then introduce the net. I used this method for both my kids, and it work so well, that I wish to share. Keeping it fun, if not a bit crazy, at first will build interest in the activity. Introduce the net, as soon as the kid can hit somewhat reliably. My son went on to be not just excellent Jr player, but top 3 or so among his age. My daughter actually had better strokes at 6, and could have excelled in Jr tournaments, but got more interested in girl social stuff instead of tennis. Now she wants to try to high school team, but needs to get it all back, and more. So I know the method works, but it takes a patient parent to put in hours on the court.
     
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  15. ext2hander

    ext2hander Rookie

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    BTW, I'm thinking of the 3-4 year old range, not for school age kids and up. My son started at 2, and had great fun and a solid start.
     
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  16. Ash_Smith

    Ash_Smith Hall of Fame

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    ^^^ Fair enough, if you've found it works for your kids then fair play. Have you tried it with a wider population?

    Cheers
     
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  17. tennis_balla

    tennis_balla Hall of Fame

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    I'm doing that now with a player. I agree with this big time, feel is important. The problem with this certain player is that they played all out all the time and never really developed feel. Good player, but gets too caught up in the little things and tries too hard to fix something. When I get him to settle down, concentrate on the basics he does it well but he's got problems feeling it and repeating it. He's well above the average 4.0 level, which baffles my mind sometimes that he's got so much trouble feeling the stroke.
    The main problem is, he used to hit his strokes very tense. Gripping the racket hard on the backswing, tensing up, exerting a lot of energy. I'm working on getting him to relax, and even though he's a pretty laid back guy off the court, its a difficult change for him. Mainly to trust the fact that he has to let go, to lose control in a sense and let it happen in order to gain control of his stroke. Makes sense?

    Any ideas an/or drills to help him achieve this better? I'm doing well with him, he's starting to get it but its been a long process.
     
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  18. ProgressoR

    ProgressoR Hall of Fame

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    one experience i had some months back, i took a group of 5 lessons with a new coach, i told my aim over these 5 lessons was to get a workable volley along with his tips to fix any obvious no-no's on my groundies. He said we have to work up to volleys by working on approach and other tactics then will look at volleys later, I think i hit my first volley in the 3rd lesson.

    I hate this stuff, I am 40 years old and know my weaknesses and have a good feel for what i want to improve in order to improve my game. Now of course everything needs improving, but i hate working on something till i am happy with the previous thing, i know my game.

    I was getting lots of short balls and had no idea how to finish at the net, i was horrendous, so i didnt want to work on approach, just on volleys.

    The coach who i use a lot now listens to me. He knows how to correct everything but does it in doses. He also takes cues from me, I can tell him at the start of a lesson today i want to work on x, and after 10 minutes hitting groundies and warming up we work on x.

    Or i tell him this month i really want to work on this aspect because i need to improve it now, so that is what we do for that month.

    He gives me as much advice as i tell him i can handle, some technical advice i just cannot understand or react to, eg on the Fh he was explaining my wrist was weak at contact and how to fix it and i just could not get the hang of it and i told him. Rather than keep pushing something i cannot understand, his next key advice was to think about SW instead of eastern and that fixed that problem quickly as well as another issue on my follow through i just could not fix.

    I like my coach because he listens, and trusts that i know my game and what I want to improve and uses his experience to over ride me occasionally when its for my benefit.

    He will also explain one thing many ways till it clicks for me, maybe the 3rd or 4th time he explains it it clicks, i nod and incorporate it.

    I am paying for lessons and i feel i should have some control over what to work on, because everything needs to improve but i do have a feel for what really bugs me and is holding me back right now, and want to be able to inform the coach and we agree to work on it.

    If am being an *** and ignoring something i should not ignore, he will tell me and we will work on that in the right priority.
     
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  19. Ash_Smith

    Ash_Smith Hall of Fame

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    @ Balla

    Makes total sense. The hard part for me, with players like the one you describe, is getting them to slow down!

    In order to develop the requisite feel, the player must repeat the shape slowly, it's only by swinging slowly that the feel can develop - the process of myelination (muscle memory if you like) is much more efficient if the swing is repeated slowly and accurately. When players swing too fast, they have a tendancy to fire muscles in the wrong order and therefore they never develop the proper feeling.

    I try to get players like this to think like the gears in a car, they start in first gear (super slow!), then whey they have the technique and started to build a feel they can change into second gear (bit faster) and so on. This imagery tends to resonate with people and helps them understand that speed doesn't always equal success (especially early on in the process).

    Hope that makes sense!

    Cheers
     
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  20. tennis_balla

    tennis_balla Hall of Fame

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    Yup, makes sense.

    Thanks for the input.
     
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  21. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    A question about how the forehand is taught!

    In the original "how strokes are taught" thread, someone posted a video of a coach giving his student a 3 reference point breakdown of his forehand.

    The first reference point was to take the racquet partially back and, apparently, lay back the wrist so that the top of the racquet is pointing straight up at a 90 degree angle to the forearm, with the elbow bent and pointing straight back.

    The second reference point was to then abandon the laid back 90 degree wrist position with the elbow bent achieved in reference point one, and take the racquet the rest of the way back with the arm now in a straight position and the palm and racquet face pointing straight down. The term the coach used was "pet the dog."

    The third reference point was to then swing forward with a straight arm leading with the upper body.

    Clearly, this is an attempt to immitate Federer's forehand, which is very similar in these respects to Hass's and Fish's forehands. These points are virtually identical to what Federer, Hass and Fish do. But, IMO, their methods aren't necessarily the best way for everyone else to hit a forehand.

    My question is, what is the point of teaching a student to turn the hitting face of the racquet down (pet the dog), in the backswing of the forehand? It makes no sense to me. (Reference point one makes no sense and seems utterly arbitrary to me as well). It seems to me that there is more depth control if the racquet is maintained on edge throughout the backswing and the hitting zone. After the racquet passes through the hitting zone the forearm then pronates and the racquet face turns toward the target. But, I don't see the point of closing down the racquet face in the backswing only to have to open it before contact. It seems to me that this just adds an unecessary variable to the technique resulting in less depth control and less consistency.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2011
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  22. Ash_Smith

    Ash_Smith Hall of Fame

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    ^^^ Good question. It isn't one of the key teaching points for me, nor is it for the RPT, however my take on that video is that the parent got the wrong end of the stick on that paticular point.

    Brian is (I think) trying to help the student understand the contraction of the elbow in the transition between backswing and foreward swing. His main point isn't the racquet face orientation, but that the forearm extends away from the upper arm before the rotation of the hips - which helps to increase leverage over keeping the arm fully bent at 90 deg. My guess is that the parent has heard other coaches use "pat the dog position" (BB used to talk about it alot on here) and wrongly used the racquet face as a reference, which Brian went along with. The contraction of the elbow to create leverage is the essential part, the orientation of the racquet face at this point will be dependent on the grip amongst other things.

    That's my take on it anyway - perhaps Brian could comment if I'm way of line with my assessment!!!

    Cheers
     
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  23. tennis_balla

    tennis_balla Hall of Fame

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    Is this video still available? Link?
     
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  24. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    I think TennisCoachFLA posted it in the deleted thread. I don't remember Brian's last name, but, a YouTube search with his full name should bring up the video, if it's still up.
     
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  25. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    I've seen a lot of younger players hitting forehands just like this. I assume most are purposely immitating Federer's form - for better or worse.

    By "contraction of the elbow" you mean straightening the elbow? I'm not sure how that creates leverage, or how leverage plays a role in the forehand. It seems to me that slightly a bent elbow is a more powerful, more stable, position than a straight one, no?
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2011
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  26. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    The link is there, but the video has been made private on YouTube
     
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  27. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    It is nothing but the Nike swoosh. Up, down, and up again. Easier to do with a closed face.
     
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  28. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    Anybody have an opinion on the Fh tip in the new tennis Mag?

    Nick B says to take the racket back as soon as the shoulders turn along with a couple of other interesting tips.
     
    #28
  29. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    How do you not take the raquet back with the shoulder turn?
     
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  30. Hewex

    Hewex Semi-Pro

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    He sounds very results driven, like he is afraid to give up control and accept what happens. Can you get him to focus on the process and take what comes?
     
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  31. eliza

    eliza Guest

    I did not get it yet...OK is he saying, turn your shoulders and go with the racquet back?
    Because even when I turn the racquet is still in "front"of my body......
     
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  32. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    Right, even though your shoulders have turned to go to the ball, I agree with what you say about your racket staying in front of your body approach to this.
     
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  33. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Excellent question. Like Ash said, many top coaches do not teach it. They teach the take back, racquet drop into contact point. The term pat the dog I first remember hearing about 2007.

    What experts do is look for similar parts of the top pros strokes. Sampras and Agassi did not have a real 'pat the dog' portion of their forehands.

    Nadal, Fed, Djoker, they do. Henin was one of the women who have used it at the pro level.

    Like Ash said, the dad was grabbing onto that term and position rather than the actual corrections Brian was making in terms of the boy's elbow being tucked to his body, use more leverage and then pull the racquet butt through.

    You have to be very careful in forcing the 'pat the dog' on kids. They can end up with a horrible hitch in the swing. I prefer working to make the take back proper, the elbow not tucked, the contact point, and see how the kids handle the drop. Many boys will end up with a natural pat the dog racquet parallel to the ground portion of the swing anyway once you have them practice pulling the butt of the racquet.

    I have had 5 different top coaches explain the true advantages. Believe me, even they will give explanations with wide variety.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2011
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  34. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    It is wrt the baseline of course.
     
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  35. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    Interesting observation about Sampras and Agassi. I think I'd put Becker in that camp too. Also, it seems to me that those three had more consistent depth on their forehands than Federer and Nadal, who seem to hit a lot of forehands (and backhands) with a ton of spin that land near or just past the service line. On the other hand, Lendl had a pronounced downward facing racquet in the backswing and he hit with consistent depth. But, unlike Fed and Nad, Lendl's follow through was much shorter and finished with the racquet on its edge, the antithesis of a WW follow through.
     
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  36. tennis_balla

    tennis_balla Hall of Fame

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    Been doing that since the start. He's getting it, but is so used to muscling the ball that its sometimes difficult for him to get out of that comfort zone for him. Just gotta be patient and keep on the same path with him, and he'll get it. He already is, but like I said it takes time to change someones mentality like this especially if they're so keen and hoping for results and gets frustrated as well.
     
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  37. eliza

    eliza Guest

    Liminhitter (I noticed now you call yourself "Limping"?)and FLA, not to be specious, but Oscar notices that nowadays shots are amped up in spin and shorter in depth, and he writes that this is done on purpose, as a measure of further control to avoid UE.....
     
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  38. Ash_Smith

    Ash_Smith Hall of Fame

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    Eliza, I think that's probably true. There are two main ways to pin your opponent behind the basline, either by hitting to a full length, so the bounce is closer to the baseline or by hitting with shedloads of spin so that even though the balll may bounce shorter (around the service line), it is still rising as it crosses the baseline. It has been commented that Djokovic's current streak has coincided with his increasing his average shot height over the net and working the ball with more spin to improve consistency. Consistency leads to confidence and so forth.

    Cheers
     
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  39. eliza

    eliza Guest

    Which it brings another question to you Pros. Do you teach this? To all or only some of your students.
    I want to hit with heavy top, both on FH and BH, but it is something that does not resonate with "Pros"here. I am told "you have enough spin already"....."why do you want to hit with spin?" which somehow re-introduced the "you should hit flat b/c you are old"discourse......
     
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  40. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Boys are taught spin more than girls. And they are taught the pat the dog more than girls.

    Why? The theory many coaches have is that girls can win with top spin as kids. But at a certain age in the teens boys keep getting stronger, girls do not get a ton stronger. At that point boys can use topspin as a weapon, the girls end up with balls that sit up and get crushed.

    Coaches will argue all the time about how much topspin vs hitting flatter through the ball you should teach a girl.
     
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  41. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    I'm surprised slightly that more pros don't focus more on heavy TS these days, with great example of Nadal and even Borg from the past. In America there is alway a huge love affair with things powerful, like hitting very fast, flat winners. IMO many players feel they have arrived when they can hit 4-5 of these flat monster winners in a match, as long as the score was close at the end.

    We teach the high net clearance with strong topspin from the start as the foundation, then later add how to pull across stronger to flatten the trajectory for mid ct attacks, but still maintaining excellent TS with this flatter trajectory.

    What I teach my students is to make clearing the net with very good margin to be job #1,
    then make objective #2 to have enough spin to bring that ball down near the svc line as they can. Mostly balls will tend to go half way between the svc line and baseline this way, but as they get crisper shots, they actually develop the ability to clear the net by 4-5 ft and still bounce it near the svc line with good pace. This provides excellent margins for error and allow the player to be very aggressive with making the court wider for the opponent to cover.
     
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  42. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    I would be on the side of teaching girls powerful, crisp TS, not agreeing that it comes down to strength; but coming down much more to technique!
     
    #42
  43. aimr75

    aimr75 Hall of Fame

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    I always thought, for an ATP style swing the "pat the dog" position aided in ensuring the racquet is kept to the right side of the body.. otherwise the racquet may have a tendency to go behind the body in the takeback.. I think i recall one post some time ago mentioning that keeping the racquet to the right helps some people get a sense of where the racquet is throughout the takeback which helps in the forward swing sequence and timing.. it helps i think also with making the swing more compact.. particularly for ATP players the game is a lot faster and more compact swings helps compared to WTA style forehands (large take backs, laid back wrist throughout, no pronation in the takeback)
     
    #43
  44. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    I'm at least one of the folks who made this comment here and also well before this run I commented here (also discussed with Oscar) how that "if and when" DJoker puts more margin for error by not hitting so near to the lines, he could rise even to #1. I think not hitting so close to the baseline corner will and does allow him to be more aggressive with his power and spin. I have felt he and Davydenko had some of the best strokes on tour for awhile, but DJ had a better overall game.
     
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  45. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    Me too. My daughter's forehand resembles Feds much more than it does Wozniak's.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2011
    #45
  46. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    That is certainly the theory many coaches follow. Most WTA players sure do take the racquets back way more behind the body.

    There are exceptions like Henin. Her racquet head flips behind her rear end like Nadal's does. But she does not wind her entire arm behind her body like many WTAs.

    In general most coaches teach both boys and girls the high take back with 2 hands, then off arms extended down the baseline. Then they teach them the rest of the stroke differently. Boys, more pat the dog, more top spin, take back not as far behind the body.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2011
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  47. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    I read what you're saying, but, I don't see the necessity of pointing the racquet face down to ensure a compact backswing, or to keep the racquet to the right, or if either of those things are necessary or desireable in the production of an effective ATP style swing. I can think of a few big ATP forehands that aren't like that: Tsonga, Del Potro, Murray, Davydenko, Safin (before retirement). I'm not sure what the hell Fernando Gonzalez is doing, but, it's not compact, it goes way behind the body, and he rips the living **** out of the ball. And, Nadal's swing looks like it changes direction about 5 times before he starts his forward swing. (That has to be about the ugliest stroke I've ever seen). But, I don't see a "pat the dog" position in Nadal's forehand either. Maybe I'm missing it.

    Obviously, this "pat the dog" position works for some players, especially if they have talent on par with Federer. Certainly Federer's forehand may be the greatest shot in the history of the game. But, that doesn't mean it's the best technique to emulate. JMHO! I remember, as a kid, Rod Laver telling juniors not to try to emulate his forehand (big wristy roundhouse continental wallop), because it was not the best way to learn to hit the ball, even though Rod's forehand was a monster shot. Rod explained that he abandoned what his coaches had taught him and developed his own stroke, and they let him do it because it was so effective for him.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2011
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  48. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    And you just did a great job summing up what other coaches say, you can still have a compact take back that does not go far behind the body without 'pat the dog'.

    Mr. Sampras won a few tournies without it!
     
    #48
  49. Ash_Smith

    Ash_Smith Hall of Fame

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    An example...ATP vs WTA.

    [​IMG]

    Cheers
     
    #49
  50. TennisCoachFLA

    TennisCoachFLA Banned

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    #50

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