How talented is Baghdatis?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by OJ ROD, Apr 2, 2009.

  1. OJ ROD

    OJ ROD Semi-Pro

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    From a natural skills standpoint. I don't know very much about recognizing natural talents in a player, but I would just like to know. I feel he does have some kind of natural talent because he's game is pretty much based around good basics(Solid serve and groundstrokes, good strategic thinking, and pretty good feel when needed) and yet he's so successful. None of his shots are huge, and he's not a way over the average athlete like Monfils. So I'm guessing it's something more subtle, well, in comparison to the rest of the field.
     
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  2. catfish2424

    catfish2424 Banned

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    he is fast and past that he is old an dhas a bandana
     
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  3. OJ ROD

    OJ ROD Semi-Pro

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    What? All I got from that was "he is fast".
     
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  4. T1000

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    he's good, but injuries keep us from seeing his true potential
     
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  5. fastdunn

    fastdunn Legend

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    Although he is now ranked at around #100, I still consider him as one of the best ball strikers in the game now.

    He has reached a slam final(AO) and a semi final (and quarter-final) at Wimbledon.

    If you think about it, there are not many guys who has achieved that kind of achievements these days besides top 4 guys, you know...
     
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  6. Xuxa Kuerten

    Xuxa Kuerten Rookie

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    Talent alone, I would put him on top 5. He's very gifted. I would say that you may perceive how talent one player is by looking how much effort he makes to play on high level. Another characteristic (very connected with the other one) is to look at how mechanical is a stroke, e.g. how non-fluid it is. On one extreme, you would have guys like Baghdatis, Federer, Nalbandian, Gulbis, Rios, Santoro (who plays with both hands on both sides, but his movements are still very smooth) and many others. On another extreme, Schalken, Ferrer, Karlovic, Volandri, Verkerk, Novak and many others. But this is actually a very polemic matter, because people tend to think that talent is linked with asthetics, and then criticize the players that seem to make more effort to play. But tennis is totally related to efficiency, so it's very difficult to judge how talented is a player when he loses many matches, for instance.
     
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  7. Lsmkenpo

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    One of the best pure ball strikers on tour, a top ten talent.
     
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  8. kungfusmkim

    kungfusmkim Professional

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    His like a safin. Safin had the potential to be just as good as federer but never worked for it. Baghdatis is the same. If he had just worked on his fitness and a few bugs here and there i guarntee you that he can beat everyone in the field. He is one of the best ball strikers in the game. period.
     
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  9. OJ ROD

    OJ ROD Semi-Pro

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    I meant his physical talents guys. Sorry I didn't specify. Like hand eye or explosiveness or something of the sort. Though Xuxa Kuerten hit the nail right on the head as far as the point of tennis. Efficiency. If it doesn't work, don't really matter how pretty it is.
     
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  10. Eviscerator

    Eviscerator Banned

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    I agree...
     
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  11. deltox

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  12. fastdunn

    fastdunn Legend

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    Safin is a great physical talent. But IMHO Safin does not truely love tennis. He said he was forced to play tennis by his mom. His personality just doesn't fit to the isolated super dedications required for a world class athelete in an individual sport like tennis.
     
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  13. Marc The Shark

    Marc The Shark New User

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    just want to add he is super friendly and approacheable... :) got to meet him this year in Miami
     
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  14. Lsmkenpo

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    I thought the same, he is the most personable and grounded pro on tour IMO.
     
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  15. mental midget

    mental midget Professional

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    he's got real talent, and i guess, some real injuries as well.

    he actually reminded me quite a bit of a righty rios-maybe not quite the sublime ball control, but very similar in the way he could control a point, handle tough shots, make consistent clean contact, etc.

    healthy and dedicated, probably a fixture in the top 10.
     
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  16. deltox

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    met him at the us open. very nice guy, he was eating lunch on the strip and took a minute to sign for my son on his big autograph tennis ball. his talent is superb but he lacks the focus and desire to be the athlete he could be.
     
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  17. kutafon

    kutafon New User

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    talented but very lazy
     
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  18. oneguy21

    oneguy21 Banned

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    I love to watch him. He hits so clean.
     
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  19. Lsmkenpo

    Lsmkenpo Hall of Fame

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    Baghdatis really connects with the fans when he plays, one of my favorite players to watch live, he is the opposite of Federer and Nadal in this regard, both rarely acknowledge and connect with the fans when they play.
     
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  20. deltox

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    lazy is a harsh word. we expect him to "be all he can be" but in reality many players and many of us here choose not to acheive the absolute best we can do and just settle for what we want in life.

    for others, their perfect ending varies from others.

    Safin seems tio be a happy person off court
     
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  21. Tennis_Monk

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    Not very talented. At the end of the day all he does is put some balls back in play.

    J/k. He is world top 20 player and you say he isnt talented?. cmon give me a break.
     
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  22. Inner Game

    Inner Game Semi-Pro

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    Baghdatis is an average pro who for being a world class athlete is out of shape.....He will never make the top 10 again and my guess he will be out of tennis in 2 years....
    People say he's so talented whats his talent? Fast...no....Big serve....no....killer forehand.....no.....awesome backhand....no.....great volleyer? NO.......so thats adds up to me as a second level pro.....He's right up here with likes of Mardy Fish.....
    If those 2 were serious about their careers they wouldn't be carrying around 15 extra pounds...




    For what its worth!
     
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  23. babolat15

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    i find it interesting that people on a message board are calling top 100 pros lazy and saying they havent put the work in
     
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  24. Kobble

    Kobble Hall of Fame

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    Marcos used to change direction of the ball well, and was a great overall shot maker. Now, I don't know what he is doing.
     
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  25. The-Champ

    The-Champ Legend

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    Marcos' ball striking ability is top notch. Unfortunately his physical conditioning doesn't do it justice.
     
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  26. flyer

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    bags has top five talent but is a free spirit in life style, tennis ran his life when he was growing up and he hated it for it, he wont let it happen again (hence never coming anywhere close to realizing his potential)
     
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  27. deltox

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    sounds about right
     
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  28. fastdunn

    fastdunn Legend

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    AFAIK, he has been trained in France in his junior years. That must have some kind of effects on his tennis. He has brilliance but also ups and downs similar to other French players: Gasquet, Tsonga, etc...
     
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  29. tomas9848

    tomas9848 Professional

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    he is a beast!!!!!!!
     
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  30. Dilettante

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    You guys won't ever give up, will you?
     
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  31. vive le beau jeu !

    vive le beau jeu ! G.O.A.T.

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    he's got such an exciting game, a charming and charismatic pesonnality... one of my favorite players, definitely !
    allez marcos !!! :)
    i still expect great things from him... so far he didn't do so bad in 2009, coming back from his injury-plagued past season.

    next week : athens challenger on clay !
    small event, but i guess he'll enjoy the greek crowd... and vice versa. ;)
     
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  32. vive le beau jeu !

    vive le beau jeu ! G.O.A.T.

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    Marcos Baghdatis got injured

    marcos is injured again, and won't play in greece... :(
    (at least it's just a small one, this time... damned ankle !)
    big disappointement for him ! :?

    from: http://www.statusathensopen.gr/default.asp?pid=2&ncatID=2&newsID=61&la=2
     
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  33. phoenicks

    phoenicks Professional

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    he together with Safin, Nalbandian, Federer, Davydenko are absolutely insane clean ball striker, the ball they hit is so pure, it is as pure as a driven snow ,...erm, no, much purer than it !!!

    he is one of the Saint Pure in today's Men tennis !!!
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2009
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  34. CCNM

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    Marcos is hurt again??? NOOOO!!!!! Oh well, get well soon sweetheart.
     
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  35. fps

    fps Legend

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    what you're saying is moronic. *average* pros never make a slam final. that's a fact. unless you're saying that getting to a slam final is part of the resume of an average player, in which case there can only be a maximum of 80 *average* players a decade.
     
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  36. SaintClaires

    SaintClaires Banned

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    If Baggy's forehand were a little bit better he would be ranked much higher.
     
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  37. AprilFool

    AprilFool Guest

    Agreed. And a great on-court personality.
     
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  38. Lsmkenpo

    Lsmkenpo Hall of Fame

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    So, in your estimation having one great shot is better than being solid in all aspects of the game, and striking the ball clean, lol. Have you ever seen him play live?
     
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  39. kungfusmkim

    kungfusmkim Professional

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    give up what? :O i never gave down something to start.
     
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  40. Radical Shot

    Radical Shot Semi-Pro

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    I followed Marcos during his run at the AO a few years ago. Saw every match of his during the AO, including the final.

    His forehand was huge!

    He took the first set of Roger in emphatic style.

    He has game.
     
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  41. Lsmkenpo

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    Read on his site that he has been training with Gil Reyes(Agassi's physical trainer) in Vegas for the past month, this is great news for fans of Marcos only thing that ever held him back was his physical condition.
     
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  42. Gorecki

    Gorecki G.O.A.T.

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    catfish2424 is posting:

    [​IMG]
     
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  43. velkov

    velkov Rookie

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    he's not so talaned i guess. also he is not world class athlete mostly !!
     
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  44. The-Champ

    The-Champ Legend

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    Very talented and lazy.
     
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  45. !Tym

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    It's a good point about Bhagdatis' stroking techniques looking very neutral and conventional, yet he's still been able to distinguish himself as a "one to watch" type player in the game.

    This does indicate exceptional talent imo. He's a bit pudgy, but actually naturally quite quick and with very good anticipation skills.

    Imo, though his real talent is best described as one of those guys you call a "pure striker." In baseball, they call them "just a PURE hitter." Tony Gywnn was that way. In basketball, they call them "pure shooters," Glen Rice was that way. Niether Gwynn nor Rice were what anyone would describe as flashy looking players, but at their peak, they were without a doubt among the very best.

    Bhagdatis is that way. His techniques themselves are not flashy looking, but he's such a pure ball striker that at his best he makes exceptionally clean contact with the ball. If you're able to consistently meet the ball SQUARE on at this level right in the sweetspot, you're ensuing shot is going to have some unexpected *zing* to it that's gonna catch players off-guard, making them look flat-footed.

    That's what Bhagdatis does at his best, and why some commentators refer to him as a shot maker. He's not a shotmaker in the sense of an Arazi or Leconte, where he consistently goes for the flamboyant shot and crosses his fingers that they go in. His shot selection is rather more mundane, almost ordinary; but what makes those seemingly "simple" shots "sing" is the unexpected ZING he puts into them when he's seeing the ball well. Because his pace is not something you see coming from a mile away like with say Fernando Gonzales or Verdasco or Roddick or Kuerten, all guys who TELEGRAPH when they're going for a big shot by winding up to the moon, he doesn't have to hit it QUITE as hard to get the same effect. He takes very little windup, but because he meets the ball so square and in the center of the sweetspot at his best, he'll turn YOUR pace against you in a hurry, he'll get SURPRISING zing on his shots.

    There's a difference between pacey and ZINGY or ZIPPY. Marcos Bhagdatis is the quintessential zingy, ZIPPY player. Zippy in his movement (not so much long-term endurance thus far), zippy in his response to your shots. He cherry picks your shots on the rise and turns them against you before you even know what happened. He's imo like a Malivai Washington type with slightly less raw athleticism, but purer hand-eye coordination. Washington might maintain consistent results better, but he lacked that EXTRA gear to get him over the top to beat the top guys. Bhagdatis has that extra gear, the "intangibles", but doesn't have Washington's conditioning as an athlete nor thus far his mental reserves.
     
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  46. CANADIAN763

    CANADIAN763 Rookie

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    Exactly. He had one of the best runs at a grand slam final, and he wasn't in better shape than the average club tennis player. He has a lot of raw talent that has gone wasted for several years due to his injuries.
     
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  47. tomas9848

    tomas9848 Professional

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    he is a beast.
     
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