How to become a tennis coach? Certifications needed, etc

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by dwhiteside, Aug 22, 2009.

  1. dwhiteside

    dwhiteside Semi-Pro

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    Hi there, I normally play with the 4.5 men league and guess I would consider myself a strong 4.0 or low 4.5. I'm interested in doing some coaching either on the side or perhaps as a full time job. I wonder what certification is required, how to get that, and any other pertinent info on how to become a tennis coach. I have about 12 books on tennis I've read cover to cover and have taken private lessons from about 6 different coaches so I have a feel for the coaching style and how it's usually done, but I want to step that up and do some workshops, get some certificates/documentation and the other licenses and such. Thanks.
     
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  2. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    The big 2 in the US are USPTA and USPTR. Both have their strengths and weakness. Some coaches have both.

    A newer one that seems to be coming on strong is MTM, which is widely acclaimed internationally. There is good info on it on
    http://ez-tennis.com/
    It is also a great value cost wise.
    The on court insurance is a big part of being certified, and a big part of why certs are required to teach at most facilities. MTM has a great price on their insurance.
     
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  3. dwhiteside

    dwhiteside Semi-Pro

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    Thank you muchly. Any idea on a ballpark range of USPTA certification pricewise, and time investment wise? Are there multiple levels of that or just one for all?
     
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  4. firstblud

    firstblud Professional

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    is MTM the one that is backed by the wegner methodologies?
     
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  5. 10s talk

    10s talk Semi-Pro

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    do not know the cost, I am sure their web site would explain it. Yes, there are several levels.

    FWIW... USPTA is a much harder test, PTR is a joke
     
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  6. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    Yes,
    It is.
     
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  7. tennis_balla

    tennis_balla Hall of Fame

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    Certification is not required to be a tennis coach. Places like in Asia though for example will not hire you without one, mainly cause of insurance and visa issues. It really depends what you want to coach. On the other hand being certified doesn't necessarily mean you're in and will be guaranteed to coach players of course but it helps greatly in showing your potential customers that you've done your homework so to speak.
    I looked back and took a lot of the drills I did as a junior and used them as well as others I've seen other pro's do that I liked. If you've taken lessons before you should already know a few. Live ball drills with 2, 3 and 4 players on one court or more, feeding drills, drills to help with technique, movement drills and so on as well as games that will incorporate what you're teaching them in a more competitive situation.
    Most of the time though its not how much you tell them, but what you say and how you say it. Having a good personality, patience and a way to deal with even the most demanding people is key. No two players are really the same and each individual understands things differently so just because 2 players are making the same technical flaw for example doesn't mean they'll understand things the same way.
    By the way, the prices are on the USPTA and USPTR websites. What I would suggest is grab a friend and tell him you'll give him a free lesson and try out your routine (drills, games etc) in a stress free environment. If you screw up who cares, he's getting a free lesson anyways ;)
     
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  8. teachestennis

    teachestennis Rookie

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    Oscar Wegner invented Modern Tennis Methodology in 1968 while at Beverly Hills Country Club where he tested it out celebrities from Dinah Shore to Wilt Chamberlain to a young kid named Dean Paul Martin, who would play Guillermo Vilas in the Wimbledon final in the first tennis movie "Players" in 1975. He tried to get the USPTA to adopt it as far back as 1971 but of course it they refused. Good thing Spain jumped on board and by 1973, Oscar was a Junior Davis Cup Coach for Spain and one of three National Coaches. Oscar, with a single idea that there was one optimal technique to teach every single person to hit a tennis ball, the foundation of which was open stance forehands with a windshield wiper finishing over the shoulder, felt that tennis was played by feel and that focus on mechanics destroyed the innate athletic potential of students.

    Spain was the first country to adopt MTM and many of the juniors and players he worked and met there, including a young pro named Jose Higueras, raised an entire generation of great Spanish players that continue to this day. Trips to Germany and Brazil where Oscar developed Guga Kuerten over eight years brought countless Latin American coaches trained in his MTM tenets. His tennis tips being seen in over 150 counries but never once being seen on USA TV might even accout for our being behind in tennis instruction (the USPTA announced a few years ago they were phasing out conventional tennis instruction, if you don't think it was because of Oscar Wegner's influence and success in promoting his open stance topspin MTM, you might want to read what everyone else was teaching in the History of Tennis Instruction link below which shows what everyone was teaching year by year in their own words. The 1975 entry in Part 1 will astonish you given it by itself explains what went wrong in the USA tennis instruction hierarchies. Needless to say Oscar has been training tennis coaches for nearly forty years and many famous coaches credit his MTM techniques as a primary influence. Oscar led a coaching revolution almost singlehandedly, and this is documented in The History of Tennis Instruction posted at:

    http://www.moderntenniscoaches.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=13

    Though thousands of coaches across the world, many of them at the highest levels of the game, credit Oscar as a primary influence, in early 2007, the largest chain of indoor tennis clubs in the world owned by David Lloyd, the brother of British tennis star John Lloyd, began implementing certification and training in MTM with the eventual goal of 700 coaches. Needless to say the LTA, Lawn Tennis Association, though not likely pleased but under heavy attack for not producing tennis champions, decided to grant all "Wegner" certified coaches 25 LTA coaching certification points for completing the coursework. In Dec 2007, Dany Van der Rieten of Belgium, Jorge Aguirre of Lifeflex Clubs in New York City (who coached #1 USTA Kristi Ahn), Oscar Wegner, Fernando Pereira of Brazil (Ole Miss college scholarship player who witnessed how Oscar took Brazil to a tennis power), Susan Nardi of Manhattan Beach, Jonathan Hertlein and myself, both from St. Louis, and Lucile Boshe of Simi Valley California met at in my then home in Encino California and decided to test start MTMCA and work out the certification and training kinks. The first year (this past 12 months essentially) has been interesting. By word of mouth and beneath the radar, several high levelp coaches and players have joined even before we go public. At least two former Davis Cup Coaches joined, several top players who were good enough to have played Grand Slams joined, a top 100 WTA player, and all this by word of mouth while we work our the kinks. After a year and a half, we just went public with the new website Aug 1, 2009 and will issue press releases in earnest next week. You will hear a lot about MTM in the coming year. That 1989 book was hated by most tennis coaches but describes the way every pro player now plays today.

    www.moderntenniscoaches.com and Oscar Wegner is now inviting anyone who wishes to be certified as a tennis coach that we are now open for business.

    MTMCA simplifies tennis instruction and sets MTM, Modern Tennis Methodology as the foundation to ensure your students use the correct proven biomechanical techniques that will develop their athletic potential.

    Benefits include: Exam Accreditation
    Free Hi-TechTennis.com Subscription ($15 monthy value)
    MTM Certificate signed by Oscar Wegner
    Free one page website with Coach Bio ex:see www.tennisterritory.com (might be the funniest tennis internet site) or www.tennisinthezone.com as examples of our coaches webpages, these are two current 6.0 player/coaches)
    Access to Inexpensive Insurance!
    MTM Certified Coaches List with your contact info on MTM sites and promotion by tennisteacher.com as well as our associated sites
    MTM Coaches Roundtable Forum led by Oscar Wegner to share info to further the growth of tennis. This roundtable includes a group of coaches from around the world who will help you become the best coach you can be. We also offer a free online tennis academy to help train your tennis students.

    We offer constant education as we separate the wheat from the chaff and send you the best tennis instruction out there from all over the world without the contradictory data that plagues tennis sites so often. Oscar always felt that if a child could not understand a tennis instruction, an adult could not likely, either, and thus the first rule of MTM is "The Power of Simplicity" and the second rule is "Ockham's Razor" used by scientists in history for eight centuries, including Einstein: given two competing theories, the simplest one is usually the best.

    Certification is only $50. This was a great time to make our first public announcement since the thread popped up and some are wondering about MTM.

    If you don't know about Oscar Wegner and his tennis instruction revolution that led to the current evolution, go to www.tennisteacher.com and to learn more about MTM certification go to www.moderntenniscoaches.com and browse around and hopefully, if you want the best coaching value for your money, join us. Satisfaction guaranteed or your money back.

    This is our first public announcement. Email me (John Carpenter) at eztennisswing@yahoo.com if you have further questions.

    May the Swing be With You!
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2009
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  9. teachestennis

    teachestennis Rookie

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    MTMCA is a grassroots coaching organization that is not in competition with the USPTA and PTR. We only want to promote simplified tennis instruction and many of our coaches are USPTA/PTR certified also

    The proof of any theory validity is that if it's used by other's, you get the same results. It's called the Scientific Method. With MTM, you get results like these. It also provides proof of my claim that there are countless MTM coaches around the world, even at the highest levels of the game, even if they don't credit him always. Even Richard Williams credited Oscar.

    It only took one presentation from Oscar Wegner (at the 1995 Intercollegiate Tennis Association Coaches Convention) to understand that there was a better way to teach and play tennis. I should not even say better... this should be, and always should have been, the ONLY method! The idea of “conventional tennis” is greatly misunderstood. All great players - past and present - have played tennis using the mechanics that Oscar describes. Clearly Oscar understands these techniques, timing concepts, biomechanics and even the physics associated with hitting a tennis ball as well as anyone in the world. The great news is that with some focus and desire, any coach or player can also understand and implement these great methods. Over the past 11 years I have seen some of the most rapid development of collegiate level players take place largely through the application of these concepts and principals. Even players that have trained a different way for many years can adjust almost every stroke so that they are taking advantage of the methods Oscar teaches. More than anything else, it makes hitting a tennis ball feel great and become a very consistent, efficient and highly confident skill.—Mark Guilbeau, 2005 NCAA Coach of the Year / Univ of Virginia Women

    A lot has been written about the modern forehand with its natural movements, open stance, windshield-wiper swing, and most importantly, tracking the ball and waiting before taking the racquet back. Much of this has been pioneered by Oscar Wegner, who has been teaching this method since 1968. Back then, this was very controversial, however, history has proved him right. —TennisOne.com, May 2006

    Oscar: I have long acknowledged that your teaching methods are light years ahead of those for most teaching professionals in our industry. I also happen to believe that our industry has complicated the learning process for so many players that they become discouraged and leave our sport too quickly. Your ideas simplify matters, and this is crucial. Bill Mountford, Director of Tennis USTA National Tennis Center - Site of the US Open, President of the USPTA Eastern Division, USTA.com website Teaching Pro.

    Oscar is one of the best coaches I ever met. His techniques have helped me tremendously with my own game, as with all the players that I coach.— Paul Pisani, July 2005, while helping Robert Ginepri to #17 in world in 2005, and former coach of Marissa Irwin and Justin Gimmelstob.

    When my children were very young and just starting to play tennis, Oscar gave them drills that were fun to do. He generated an interest and eagerness for the game so that they wanted to play more, and as a result, they became motivated to play better. Oscar's relaxed style of teaching conveys a sense of comfort and confidence to his students so that they look forward to working with him and can enjoy the consistent improvements that result from his teachings. —Vincent Spadea Sr, a piano teacher who learned MTM after Oscar started coaching his three very young children, all who became national champions, and Oscar upon returning from Brazil then coached Vince Jr. just before turning pro. The father, originally a piano teacher, then coached Vince Spadea Jr. to world #18 and was his son’s coach until age 26.

    Oscar is a great coach. He makes the most advanced concepts of the game simple and clear. In a few days he helped me regain my strokes and my feel for the ball. Bjorn Borg, winner of eleven Grand Slam Tennis Titles.

    Bud Collins, NBC Commentator/Historian: I know people that couldn’t learn tennis in two lifetimes, but they never met Oscar Wegner. This is a short course of you hitting balls, lots of them, soon. You will find it worthwhile to dump the past and join Oscar in your tennis future.”

    I've been coaching and playing tennis for more than twenty years, coaching my son to a national ranking as well as coaching numerous USTA ranked high schoolers in San Clemente. After watching how the pros played, I decided to test and apply Oscar Wegner's MTM. The results in just a few months have been exceptional for those involved, myself included. After many years of just coaching, my son Gage and I have begun to play again with a new excitement. Susan Nardi was recommended to me as an expert in Modern Tennis Methodology and after one lesson with her, the results were amazing. Gage was already a very fine player with lots of topspin, yet he went away with a much "heavier" ball liken to that of a pro. Her teaching of the volleys not only got results, but astounded me even as a coach. Susan also taught my wife the classic MTM stroke with about 15 minutes of instruction all the while keeping her laughing and having fun. I can just imagine how well Susan works with kids and I'm perplexed as to why the USTA hasn't already grabbed her for their "Quick Start" program . She is obviously a Master at teaching Oscar Wegners MTM program. I am tired of watching players from smaller countries like Spain, France and the like continually beating the U.S.A. on the Pro circuit. They were introduced to Oscar's MTM years ago and are reaping the rewards. Playing like the Pro's, MTM, is not only easier and more rewarding but so much more fun than the Conventional methods still being primarily taught in the U.S.A. I for one believe its about time this great tennis country of ours wakes up and adopts MTM in totality. Mike Gallagher, San Clemente, Ca. (Mike also coaches at a high school in San Clemente)

    From a 30 year tennis coach who thought he knew everything there was to know until he watched Oscar's DVDs.......
    I just love summer in Texas! 115 to 120 degrees on the tennis court during the day in our summer camp! Lots of humidity, too! My players, 5 returning and 7 new for the high school team, are sweating it out! I'm happy to report that they are learning fast with the MTM method! We don't get the good athletes, we get the ones who want to be athletes! However, with Oscars method in my head and towels for everyone we're going full steam ahead! The returning players have caught on quickly, and their tournament results this summer are great!! I'm smiling!!! 5 championships in USTA tournaments! I can't complain! The new ones, Well, the best thing about freshman is they become sophmores! However they're gettin good, Quick! Are they all happy? YES! Are the excited about tennis now? YES! Are they gettin their parents and relatives excited? YES! Are they giving me less of a hard time now? NO!!! But, I love em anyway! Stay tuned, there is a long way to go! This town, Bandera Texas is known as the cowboy capital of the world! Maybe, just maybe! we can make it the tennis capital of the the Texas hill country!! I'll let you know!!! Dean Wright,USPTA P1, MTM Pro

    Hi John, I really enjoyed our session. I got much more out of it than I believed possible. I believe my game will improve as much as 30-40% because of your coaching methods...that's a lot. I thought I had it down when it came to tennis technique...I've read countless tennis books, taken countless lessons and I have taught some tennis working as an assistant to some very well known teaching professionals...Oscar's method may be coined modern but to me it's more "organic" than anything else. Feel free to quote me. How about next Sunday if you have an opening? Dan Doroux,RCI Racquet Club, Irvine CA

    MTM is a foundation but it is proven by evidence and history to get the best tennis results of any teaching method on the planet. I don't follow Oscar, I follow his results. I will follow anyone who shows me better results with a different teaching method that works for the masses. The USPTA is moving this way even if they don't credit Oscar. Dennis Van der Meer uses these techniques himself and told Oscar and I in person and I document that on the History of Tennis Instruction Part 3.

    Technique is everything. If you start your students off with anything but proper technique, you will have to then unlearn all that muscle memory. I will quote the Russians, who have about 20 players in the WTA top 100.

    Tatiana Matokhnyuk, top international Russian coach to World #3 Nadia Petrova and Marcus Baghdatis said about an MTM Coaching Clinic held by MTI: "You won't find beginners improve this quickly with any other method. Modern Tennis is the only way to teach at all levels, it's how we do it Russia...surely everyone teaches this way."

    "Technique is everything," to quote Spartak Tennis Club in Russia, with it's one indoor court that produces more top twenty players the last seven years than the entire USA. "If you begin playing without technique, it is big mistake. Big, big mistake!" Whose technique? You might be surprised. Look at the evidence in the Spartak article on www.moderntenniscoaches.com.

    Those who do not know their history are condemned to repeat it. We welcome all coaches to join us in making tennis simple to play like the pros.
     
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  10. tennis_balla

    tennis_balla Hall of Fame

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    Wall of text!! :neutral:
     
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  11. dwhiteside

    dwhiteside Semi-Pro

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    I feel like being a tennis coach would be such a great job, it'd improve my game a boatload as well as helping others sooo much, and I feel like I can't get enough of a tennis court so it'd be incredibly natural.
     
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  12. tennis_balla

    tennis_balla Hall of Fame

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    Teaching won't improve your game, trust me. Unless you are coaching players close to your hitting level or top juniors....forget it. I can't remember the last time I really hit out on a ball for longer then 5 minutes since the season started here again in May. It just won't happen. You might get more consistant but that depends on what type of drills you do and the type of people you coach. Most of the guys I know who started coaching their games went down the drain. For me its not too bad, the level is good here and we play exhibition matches for the guests but even then it sucks for your game.
     
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  13. teachestennis

    teachestennis Rookie

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    I've been coaching for 30 years and he's right unless you are playing great players. Couple years ago I was in SoCal teaching high performance nationally ranked players in clinics and privates (several such as Emily Inge went on to D1 scholarships and several were satellite tour players) and my housemate Jimmy Gleason was Vince Spadea's hitting partner while I helped him set up the Laguna Beach Tennis Program. Hitting with him every day and with the better players honed my game to 6.0 groundstrokes, but we tennis coaches have to do things like focus on our players footwork rather than work on our swings, so we pick up a lot of bad habits not good for our game. I am back down to just below 5.0 though I show flashes of solid 5.0 or better when I hit with better players but I don't have the time given I teach all the time. Your practices will be efficient though, when you do get to play, given you know the correct technique, as long as you know the optimal technique. I was a 3.5 player at 45 years old with tennis elbow as a washed up tennis coach. When I switched to MTM, with no league play, just learning how to play like the pros helped my game despite not much practice and three years later I was good enough to practice with 6.0 players even on groundstroke rallies most of the time. The reward of coaching is helping people get better and getting a ton of tips (money tips) and referrals because you did a great job.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2009
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  14. VaBeachTennis

    VaBeachTennis Semi-Pro

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    My hitting partner is a teaching pro, before we met each other, he had the same complaints. Now we hit almost every morning for a couple of hours or in between his classes and it's helped his game. That includes playing the best of 3 a few times per week. If we don't play for a few days, I can see the effect it has on his game.
     
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  15. CoachingMastery

    CoachingMastery Professional

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    Anyone can become a "tennis coach" or "tennis teaching professional." Certification can help validate your label but doesn't make one a "Good" or "Great" coach or instructor.

    Having experience in teaching, coaching and playing is vital. (And no, they are not the same!)

    I've seen many so-called experts, (won't name names here!) who preach and tout their methodologies yet, they work with a handfull of players for a few days and never see them again. They may work with hundreds of players for a few days each, but move on or only provide camps or travel to clubs for a two or three day stretch. What I have found is that these pros are out of touch with two key elements of the game as it pertains to learning:

    1. They don't know if their methods work since they only see their 'students' for a few days.

    2. They don't work with large groups of players for long periods of time, thus not seeing what works for the masses...as opposed to what "research" shows them in terms of biomechanics or hml studies.

    You would do well to help a high school team or become a head coach for a few years. You can always teach private lessons or even try working at a club too. But, coaching a high school team will do several things for you:

    1. Give you a large group of boys or girls to see how different teaching methods help (or hurt!) the group.

    2. Give you a long period of time to validate or evaluate your teaching methods. (Usually a season or several if you stay for a number of years.)

    3. Find how best to deal with different personalities and ages.

    4. Develop effective drills that effectively teach large groups and also effectively works with individuals.

    5. Compare other coaches styles and methodologies (if they have any!) to your own.

    In my book, COACHING MASTERY, I outline my 37 years in the tennis coaching, teaching and programming industry. I've witnessed hundreds of coaches and teaching professionals, some excellent, some arrogant, and some very ignorant. Why? Because they teach from a limited level of experience.

    I've been at one club where a couple of the pros had never even played high school or college tennis, never taught tennis anywhere else, and were "indocrinated" into a very specific tennis teaching program. Well, they taught like "used car salesmen"...because they didn't teach what the student needed, they taught only what they knew. (Very little, I'm sorry to say!)

    But, you can become what ever level of coach you want to become. Just as you can become what ever level player you sincerely desire...within the bounds of your potential...

    But, it sounds like you are well on your way. One key element is to study tennis. Most pros I've met read very little on tennis. While I might have 117 books on tennis that I use for resources, nearly every pro I know who teaches tennis doesn't own one book. That is very sad. You have said you have read books on tennis, and that is a great step.

    One thing about certification is that you will have the opportunity to network with fellow pros, learning valuable ideas both from workshops as well as just discussing tennis with others.

    Good luck!
     
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  16. teachestennis

    teachestennis Rookie

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    Great post, Dave! Many astute points. Hope you got to see my History of Tennis articles as I thought of you and how you have been willing to share so much, and I enjoyed your book also, which I got at the USPTA California conference where we met and shared ideas for hours that day. I hope you all read carefully what he just said. I do believe there are a hundred ways to learn to hit a tennis ball, but I also agree with the Russians that there is one biomechanically correct technique, and Spartak and the rest of Eastern Europe are proof, which I document in the Spartak NY Times article with added commentary from other Russian coaches and with an added article about building the correct muscle memory from a person's first stroke, which is why I teach to emulate topspin hitting up and across the ball with a complete finish from their earliest strokes, exactly as the Russians teach, they call it imitatsiya meaning IMITATION of the pros. I'm having a big interview translated from Russian by the Head of the Russian Tennis Federation as we speak hoping to glean more about their emphasis on perfect technique. He mocks the USA from what I'm hearing so far, kind of like Sanchez-Casal does on their homepage in Spanish (which I can read fluently). Stay tuned. Here's the Spartak link with the NY Times article with added pictures not in the NY Times article.

    http://www.moderntenniscoaches.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=18
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2009
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  17. tennis_balla

    tennis_balla Hall of Fame

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    ^^ I took the Sanchez-Casal week-long coaching course this spring and its good stuff. I don't think I'd ever take a USPTA or USPTR coaching course but thats just my opinion. Daniel Sorribas who conducts the course is great as well as all the other people at the facility.
     
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  18. teachestennis

    teachestennis Rookie

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    Sanchez-Casal in Spain brags on their website in Spanish they've produced more top players than the entire USA. Several of our coaches have graduated from the Spain site with coaching certificates and they say the same as you. Of course, all three went on to become MTM coaches for Oscar Wegner which I think says a lot (see www.tennisterritory.com as an example, Mark Carruthers). The USTA, USPTA and PTR don't exactly have a track record of great players crediting their teaching system. The USPTA changes every few years; in 1992 it was System 5 hailed as Nicky B's gift to the game and sold as the Holy Grail, and we know how that all turned out. The PTR probably won't merge with the USPTA because they dont' want to lose the legacy of the Standard Method, but who in the pro game uses anything like the Standard Method? USPTA CEO Heckler has tried to protect Dennis' legacy in recent merger talks even issuing an open letter to the PTR that they want to merge, but the truth is the PTR likely fears it can't be done given the Standard Method is Salieri versus Mozart (see movie Amadeus, one of best films ever about envy and jealousy).

    It's individual coaches who break the mold and think outside the box that usually do the best. I work with several coaches who graduated from Sanchez-Casal Academy in Spain and they verify that they taught pretty much the MTM system but I've heard rumors they've gotten away from that in their new Florida operation. I hope not, you don't change what works. Keep it simple and play by feel and instinct is proven to work not only for the masses but for the pros.
     
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  19. Delpojuice

    Delpojuice New User

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    If you want to coach worldwide not only in the US I would go with the PTR!
    The PTR is accredited by the ITF, ATP, WTA, USTA, LTA, FIT etc.

    Now the PTR has new pathways in which you can get certified.
    There is Junior Development, Performance and Adult Development.
    The PTR also offers a Master of Tennis in these 3 categories. The PTR Master of Tennis - Performance is even linked to the ITF’s highest level course!

    I have worked as a coach in Europe and in the US.
    I can highly recommend the PTR!
     
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  20. tennis_balla

    tennis_balla Hall of Fame

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    Wow, not only is this a necro-bump but we get to see teachestennis wall of text once again!
     
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  21. dr325i

    dr325i Legend

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    you are one pissy coach.
    Miss you man, it was a great pleasure hitting with you for a year or so...
     
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  22. tennis_balla

    tennis_balla Hall of Fame

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    I'm 32 now, had my birthday recently. I guess I have a right to be pissy now haha. If you're ever back let me know! Was a blast working on court with ya.
     
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  23. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter Legend

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    Don't count on coaching improving your game. Have you ever heard of tennis coach syndrome? That's where you are so used to focusing on looking at your student, you don't look at the ball or set up for your shots the way you would if you were focusing on your own execution. Goes with the territory.

    PS: I just realized that I responded to a post from about 3 years ago. I hate when that happens.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2012
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