how to convince someone that they stink and needs an overhaul?

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by pushing_wins, Oct 31, 2010.

  1. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    are u sure the quote applies here?

    maybe i m not interpreting the quote correctly

    could u please elaborate how it applies here?
     
  2. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    if only it was that easy.

    thanks for trying
     
  3. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    ouch!

    but thanks for your interest in this thread

    u can try, but u cant get me off my game today
     
  4. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    I'm standing by this reading the posts that have been written in the last few days. Little is to be gained by hurting his pride. Much more can be gained by helping him realize that there are more important things in life than tennis - and even other things that aren't that important that are fun, too.
     
  5. 10ACE

    10ACE Professional

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    hmm some people are just like this- I played a guy beginning of the year who only enters open tournaments and gets beat 6-0 6-1 maybe 6-3 6-2 no wins out of I think 9 tournaments--- still always enters open.

    Can't teach an old dog new tricks
     
  6. DavaiMarat

    DavaiMarat Professional

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    Hmmmmm

    Considering Pushing_Wins is from Toronto I can probably figure out who this guy is. NTRP rating's don't even really matter in Canada, there's only A, B and OPEN categories. You could self rate yourself a 7.0 lol.

    Stay tuned.
     
  7. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    are u down for a round robin with the aforemention players?

    i would really appreciate an answer. we are looking forward to play with a high level player like yourself. please accept our offer.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2010
  8. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    i have given up on the nice guy / subtle angle

    sympathy only reconfirms his delusion
     
  9. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    there are few guys like that up here. they play instead of paying for a hitting session with a local pro. they are not at all delusional.
     
  10. DavaiMarat

    DavaiMarat Professional

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    Where do you guys play? I'm at Mayfair Lakeshore.
    I play KEW and LEASIDE in the summer.

    Man my curiousity is killing me. How old is this guy? He must be ranked in the OTA standings but in what age category. I could probably just ask Al.
     
  11. DavaiMarat

    DavaiMarat Professional

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  12. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    r u willing to come to nyta, tam heather, or lam?
     
  13. nereis

    nereis Semi-Pro

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    Yeesh buddy get a life. Who cares what some other guy does with his spare time or if he ruins his own life.
     
  14. DavaiMarat

    DavaiMarat Professional

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    I come up to RCS all the time. Have to get my pallets and stuff from Brian. I was a member at NYTA until all the old ladies kept on beating to booking courts.

    Sure, let me know.
     
  15. Recon

    Recon Semi-Pro

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    & for that very reason, I don't epic fail. - Tips/Instruction: "Rate this player"...Bud: "He's a 4.0. I'm a 4.5 myself, I know what I'm talking about". It was Peter Polansky, No.185 in the world.

    EPIC.
    FAIL.

    Unlike you, I don't really post a lot, I just stand from afar viewing the stupidity. Its usually worth a few good laughs.
     
  16. Shaolin

    Shaolin Hall of Fame

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    Do an intervention.

    Get about 10-15 good players together and all tell him he is not a 5.5. That should fix the problem.

    Sounds like he is too hard headed for any other solution.
     
  17. spaceman_spiff

    spaceman_spiff Hall of Fame

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    Sorry, I know you're looking for a silver bullet, but I don't think any of us are going to come up with a solution for you. You've already tried all sorts of deception to get this guy to play and lose to lower-ranked players. Other than that, there aren't many options. Getting him to play in a league that would result in him getting bumped down would be the most effective way to convince him, but you know he would never agree to it precisely for that reason.

    You are in the equivalent of a relgious argument with a zealot who opposes your views. No matter what you say, you will not be able to change his mind. It's like arguing with a wall or trying to teach a pig to sing. You'll only end up frustrating yourself.

    In my opinion, your only option is to refuse to participate in any discussion/argument with him. If he really pushes you, just say "There's nothing left to discuss; your record speaks for itself." Then just walk away.
     
  18. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    how is the weekend for you guys? 5.5 works nights on weekdays

    i will tell 5.5 i met u guys while playing intercounty A. he wont play B, C or random guys from the internet.

    its a lot of trouble to prove something so trivial
     
  19. pushing_wins

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    i have tried that with about 4-5 mutual friends. they will say it behind his back. they wont say it to his face. everytime i press him on this issue, he get very emotional, his voice starts cracking, starts using profanity, basically causing a scene in a restaurant, the other guys will sort of back off and sympathize with him. i m so tired of that. nothing gets settled. one month later, same situation.

    after every first round loss, he would come up with some lame excuse - the courts were slanted. he would ask to go the liquor store. his tail haning between his legs and looking sympathy. other guys would nodd and say" it is ok, u get them next time." OMG- he actually believes that we believe that his excuse was valid. guys behind his back saying he should have quit the game long time ago. etc etc
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2010
  20. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    are u not doing precisely the same thing by making that comment?
     
  21. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    thank you for your response

    i think it is slightly different

    with religion - there is no tangible evidence, it based on faith

    this case - evidence is very tangible - his record
     
  22. 120mphBodyServe

    120mphBodyServe Banned

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    Why can't you grow a brain and TAKE A HINT?
    You can't help your friend, Mr Bonehead.

    JUST
    WALK
    AWAY.

    If you don't take this option then you are TRULY STUPID.
     
  23. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    u are doing precisely the same thing by making that comment
     
  24. aphex

    aphex Banned

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    [​IMG]
     
  25. pushing_wins

    pushing_wins Hall of Fame

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    wow

    that must have took u a long time to make

    thats a lot of cut and paste

    its nice, i like it

    the summary is very much appreciated.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2010
  26. FTS

    FTS Banned

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    its not really precisely the same, as they are now walking away i am sure... are you?
     
  27. pushing_wins

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    its not an issue of walking away.

    they are saying. mind your own business. u cannot tell someone how to live their life.

    they should take their own advice and mind their own business.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2010
  28. TheOneHander

    TheOneHander Professional

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    Two things.

    1) Arguing with idiots and trying to corner and manipulate them do not work.

    2) Why are you so intent on bringing this guy down? He is an idiot, but why waste the time and effort?
     
  29. pushing_wins

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    1) can u please suggest something that works? i tried logic, stats, rhetoric, expert opinion.

    2) it like a tennis match. its only a game. why waste your time? i cant let this slide.
     
  30. TheOneHander

    TheOneHander Professional

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    1) Let it go.

    2) Why waste your time though? Do you honestly think that your frivolous efforts will get him to change? You've tried everything and he refuses to change.

    You just need to accept that there are stupid people in life that you just cannot change. Instead, you have to accept them as they are and get on with your life. He may be frustrating, but your efforts won't do anything except waste your time.
     
  31. pushing_wins

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    thanks, i do realize i m being just as hard headed as the 5.5 in question.

    my efforts has sort of been wish- washing, nothing concrete. we would get into an argument, other people will not back me up. they sympathize with him. afterward, they take crap behind his back. most people would sympatize with him.

    i m going to bombard him one more time with over-whelming evidence. he can interpret it any way he wants. i will walk away. if the discussion come up again, i reference back to that day. i have tried to get someone to arbitrate, he is a mutual friend, he is a high level coach here. again he would get wish-washy, and sit on the fence.


    i got to make one last effort, then i will let it go. dont get me wrong, i m a guy who can take no for an answer.
     
  32. tennisguy2009

    tennisguy2009 New User

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    I don't get it

    its much more fun having a friend that thinks he is some kind of superman, than having a friend who is depressed and boring because you made him feel **** (even if he is ****).

    I had a friend when I lived in Tennessee who though he was the best MMA fighter in the world. Give him a few beers, go out partying, and then he would go crazy, and usually get thrown out of somewhere, or knocked out then thrown out.
    He was absolutely useless at fighting; terrible balance, and slow reflexes.
    But it was hilarious, and still funny thinking about it to this day.
    We used to encourage him, and fake total awe at his skills. It was classic.

    So encourage your friend to take crazy matches, go grab a beer and watch and enjoy! friggn cheer for him dude!
     
  33. spaceman_spiff

    spaceman_spiff Hall of Fame

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    Actually, it is because of his record that you can compare his delusional beliefs to those of a religious nut (not normal religious people, but the real wackos, like those in cults).

    If his record was 3-10 or even 3-15, you might be able to understand how he could keep on with his beliefs. But, when a guy is 3-75 and his only played-out victory was over a self-rated guy, but he ignores this and still overrates himself, he's obviously delusional. If it were possible to change his opinion simply using rational arguments, he would have already come to that realization himself. No sane person gets a 3-75 (with no victories over computer-rated players) record without realizing that he is out of his depth.

    This guy has built his whole world around tennis and is willing to completely ignore the overwhelming amount of evidence against his beliefs; nothing you can say will change this. The only thing that will make this guy wake up is if all of the other 5.0 and 5.5 guys in town start refusing to hit with him, and they will have to be brutally honest and tell the guy why.

    But like you said, everyone is too sympathetic to do this.
     
  34. Bobby Jr

    Bobby Jr Legend

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    Reminds me of a famous quote... Don't argue with fools. They'll drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. :lol:
     
  35. pushing_wins

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    yes, we do egg him on a lot and is a lot of fun. but its not worth the session of excuses afterwards.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2010
  36. pushing_wins

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    thanks. agreed.

    but i opened this can of worms. i will walk away on my own terms irrespective of the result.
     
  37. pushing_wins

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    thank for your well thought out response

    i agree with what u say. tangible or not is all in one's perspcetive.

    let me ask u this, if u lose 0 and 0 in 40 mins, would u ask you opponent for his phone number and hound him to hit again and again?

    maybe the guy is hits with u once just to be nice, should u keep hounding him?

    is this guy a snob or my level is not good enough for him?
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2010
  38. mlktennis

    mlktennis Semi-Pro

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    he's a hard-headed idiot with an ego problem, and you are intent on bringing him down b/c you are a hard-headed idiot with an ego problem. Hmmm, I wonder why you guys hang out with each other.

    You sound like a High school girl that hangs out and are best friends with the exact people she hates...and they stab each other in the back every chance they get. Grow up. U live ur life, let him live his.
     
  39. Dreamer

    Dreamer Professional

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    You can't convince this guy, he has to figure it out on his own.

    Read a clockwork orange.
     
  40. Dreamer

    Dreamer Professional

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    You know I feel kind of bad for him. He needs sympathy not someone to demean him. I mean what is in it for you?

    I think you should look into your own intentions. Perhaps part of why he won't accept your opinion is how you are projecting your own feelings without knowing it?
     
  41. pushing_wins

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    wow thats deep

    could u please elaborate?

    are u suggesting he perceives me as being biased?
     
  42. pushing_wins

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    to sum up...........i m a control freak

    u dont think i have already considered that?
     
  43. tennisguy2009

    tennisguy2009 New User

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    ah but thats the best part

    BEFORE he makes excuses, make them for him

    say stuff like

    "man, I can't believe you played so well against that guy even with your sprained ankle, and tennis elbow too! I could see you were serving at like 1/2 power, normally you would have smoked that guy"

    LOL

    See which excuses he will run with

    i would even try stuff like

    "the tread on your shoes is worn off and made you run slower than you normally are"

    "I think you might need more lead tape, the balance on that racket looked head light, else you woulda killed him"

    "this club doesnt clean the courts properly, the surface is slippery and unpredictable, no serious player can play here"

    I would challenge myself to come up with a new excuse for him every time

    lol
     
  44. Dreamer

    Dreamer Professional

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    He doesn't see you as being on his side. He doesn't see you as someone who genuinely wants to see him succeed, but rather part of the opposition and even perhaps an extension of his shortcomings. Of course he's going to reject you.

    I think you may possibly be past the point of no return in becoming a voice of reason he is willing to listen to. You don't take advice from your enemies would you? You're asking him to be vulnerable and he has no confidence in you.

    This is me stabbing in the dark. He does sound crazy, but you will be the last person he'll admit it to.
     
  45. pushing_wins

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    his sibling are all very accomplished. do u think it has something to do with that?

    if an enemy told me to 1+1 = 2, i accept that. given that we are not talking string theory, parallel universe etc. i know nothing is certain. generally speaking 1+1 =2. do u think it is an IQ issue? brain logic issue? he didnt complete high school. he has problems with math
     
  46. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    ^^^

    You have a lot of problems yourself. May want to fix those before picking on other people.
     
  47. pushing_wins

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    i have heard them all before .....

    courts not clean, courts are slanted, racquet out of balance, dog was barking, cars passing by, too cold in the bubble, couldn;t get warmed up. the classic......his oppenet hits balls that dont bounce ie. not enough top spin

    its not funny anymore

    serving first serve 70 mph is full power for him. 2nd serve is about 50. but according to him, its not about speed, because the ball slows down a lot.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2010
  48. pushing_wins

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    i have tons of good responses already. thank you all.

    i can go OT here

    we are all delusional to a certain extent. such is life

    do u think above average delusional people will tend to side with him? and tell me mind my own business?

    do u fall into that category?

    ^^^
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2010
  49. spaceman_spiff

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    I think it's pretty clear the guy is either extremely delusional or is aware (at least subconciously) of the situation and is in a state of denial. My guess is it's the latter.

    Either way, trying to change the guy's mind is a waste of time. You'll have more luck trying to convert the Pope to Islam.

    My suggestion is to walk away from the situation. If the guy tries to drag you into an argument, just tell him to come back to you when he manages to actually beat someone with a computer rating.
     
  50. pushing_wins

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    his evidence for being 5.5

    he landed tennis jobs in florida 25 years ago.

    he got to hit with some 5.0 - 5.5 once or twice last summer.
     

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