How to counter this?

Discussion in 'Junior League & Tournament Talk' started by Stokke, Sep 10, 2012.

  1. Stokke

    Stokke New User

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    My son plays, in my opinion.., solid and attack-oriented tennis when he is playing with confidence - that is, when he is not worrying about the possibility that he could miss the shot.

    He recently met an opponent who yelled YES! YES! regulary when my son double faulted or when he made an unforced error.
    My son started to focus more on not missing shots and less on winning points - and lost the match..

    How should he counter this behavior? Turn the match into a yelling contest?
     
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  2. TCF

    TCF Hall of Fame

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    He will run into that stuff at times. I prefer to teach them to ignore as much as possible. Others may advise he go seek a tournament official to see if the behavior of the opponent can be stopped or toned down.

    But like all of us, he needs to gradually build thick skin and learn to deal with the jerks we eventually will encounter in all facets of life.
     
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  3. Woolybugger

    Woolybugger Rookie

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    this the ugly side of tennis that isn't talked about much. there are cheaters and bad attitudes all around.

    last tournament my kid's opponent, who was losing, wouldn't hand the ball over nicely. at every side change he would intentionally whack them over to the other court, making my kid walk all the way there. what a jerk.
     
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  4. Soianka

    Soianka Hall of Fame

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    I've seen the same thing when my daughter was playing with hitting the balls to some far end so that my daughter would have to walk pretty far to get them.

    What's the point?

    Some of these kids are just nutty. I am sure it is their parents influence.

    My advice for the OP's kid, is that he should just laugh at that type of behavior and keep playing his game.

    It truly is laughable some idiot kid yelling "yes, yes" on his opponent's errors at some junior tournament.

    It's a joke, he should laugh and then keep playing his game.
     
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  5. Flat Top

    Flat Top New User

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    My son just started playing tennis and fortunately we have not encountered anything like this.

    Is this something you would say players are tempted to do, part of the sport's nature?

    Is there any other non-contact sport where this kind of behavior is rampant?
     
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  6. Bowtiesarecool

    Bowtiesarecool Rookie

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    Find everyday examples to teach him that everyone makes mistakes, constantly. Let him hang around grandparents, or other respectable old people who have long since given up worrying about screwing up in general. It'll rub off on him eventually.
     
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  7. RF20Lennon

    RF20Lennon Legend

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    Keep a poker face and keep going!! Thall let his opponent know its not affecting him any way
     
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  8. Stokke

    Stokke New User

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    No, we have only met this one player (twice - same behavior and result) who uses that specific tactics to enhance his chances..

    And tactics it is - I overheard his coach asking him why he does it, and the kid said "because it drives them crazy".

    He is actually a very good 11 yo player, and obviously very clever as I do not think that his antics are against the rules..
     
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  9. mikej

    mikej Hall of Fame

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    not necessarily the best role model for your son, but:

    i once played a guy in the 18s who yelled "that's what i'm talking about - all day" after any slightly extended rally that he won

    stayed quiet, used it as motivation to give everything i had to outgrind the punk, eventually won 6-3 in the 3rd after hearing that ringing in my ears well over 50 times

    we're both walking up to the net, i stop at the service line and start yelling at him "that's what i'm talking about" probably 5-7 times before he gives up on me shaking his hand and walks off the court

    so, get the last laugh by winning the match, and avoid being an ass at the end if you can help it - if not, let him hear it
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2012
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  10. coaching32yrs

    coaching32yrs Semi-Pro

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    Gamesmanship, lack of sprtsmanship, and cheating are part of the junior tennis landscape now more than ever. I recently saw a presentation by the pres of the Univ of Virginia on college cheating. Studies show this generation of college students are under more pressure to succeed, face increased parental scrutiny and, as a result, cheat on tests and papers in college much more than past generations. I believe this behavior has filtered down to the current crop of junior tennis players, although I have read no studies to back it up. Like other here have said- learn to deal with it by ignoring it. Usually it does not cost you the match. The worst thing to tell your junior is to do a "make up " call. I have heard parents and coaches tell their player to do this. It makes me sick to my stomach when I hear it or see it happen.
     
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  11. Stokke

    Stokke New User

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    I must admit that a "make up" call was what I (and my son) felt was the appropriate response. Having my son yell YES at every unforced error this opponent makes the next time they play each other, because not responding will most probably result in another loss the next time.

    But, after reading your responses (thank you) and having thought about it, I asked him wether he would like to employ the "pay back" tactics or if he could view matches against this opponent as useful mental training.

    I am happy to say that he opted for the high road.
     
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  12. superfittennis

    superfittennis New User

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    You torture them on the court and make them run until they can not breathe well enough to yell or say anything! If you can not do this, I would suggest getting an umpire. I am fairly certain that this behavior is not allowed. I don't think a player can cheer when their opponent double faults???
     
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  13. MarTennis

    MarTennis Rookie

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    Lure them into the forecourt and crack them real good Lendl style. The more uncomfortable at the net, the better. Plus, your charges will loosen up and ignore the jerk going forward in the match.
     
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  14. Woolybugger

    Woolybugger Rookie

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    good advice all around. always take the high road and don't get down to their level. let your tennis do the talking. stay focused and mentally tough. we've all heard that tennis teaches life lessons and dealing with jerks is life lesson #1.
     
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  15. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    As a junior I would always take headshots at guys like this when they came to the net. Then when they made the error, I would say the same thing they were saying (yes..cmon..whatever it was). That always worked. Coming from a football background, I found most tennis players in the juniors to be pretty easy to screw with. The toughest guys were all on my team..we were all multisport guys who played football and baseball for years so we had dealt with everything by age 10 or so.
     
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  16. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    I have to agree... My son is 11. played tackle football for 4 years now. He tells me some kids talk a lot of trash and are mean on the line when they line up against the other teams. Its normal. I was pretty shocked but on game days when I did the 1st down markers I heard all kinds of stuff coming from these young boys.... cursing and taunting, etc...

    He tells me his country club tennis friends would not be able to handle the smack talk.
     
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  17. Soianka

    Soianka Hall of Fame

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    That's an interesting point I never thought about.

    Maybe tennis juniors are a little "soft" for the most part, but as a parent, I usually did expect that each player would play fairly and be a good sport.

    Of course that did not happen all the time, but based on what you say, I would guess that most kids in other sports expect the trash talk and gamesmanship.
     
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  18. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    Exactly. And we were all fighters. We would fight each other before matches sometimes..lol. So the country club kids would try and talk trash on the court to other teams but they would see us pummeling each other in the parking lot and think twice. To us, it was no big deal, we just were aggressive and all wanted to be the king of the hill. I am literally still friends with some of the guys I fought the most to this day. It is funny how that works.

    In my experience the best tennis kids in my area only played tennis and were extremely spoiled brats. They were the guys we would pick on before matches just to let them know their mind games would result in a post match throw down (I dont recommend this by the way..lol). the other types of great players were the "young tennis bums". Basically kids who surfed, played tennis and were really chill. Just great players who were fun to play with. Those guys always got the most respect because they were excellent players and never cared about mind games. In all honesty it seemed like they figured out how to enjoy life about 40 years ahead of time and just had an ideal mentality for tennis.
     
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  19. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    I tried to take a headshot at a guy who was killing me in the juniors. He was seeded, much better than me and was hooking me. I verified one bad call on the clay after a changeover. He just casually volleyed my screamer for a winner. :(
     
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  20. sundaypunch

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    Acting like an idiot to another idiot - probably not the best advice to give in the Junior forum. It does explain your posts in the " Peliwo, Kreuger, Kozlov, and DB" thread though.
     
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  21. High Rustler

    High Rustler New User

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    I love threads like this, very informative for a tennis parent. now here's one.

    My son is playing a kid who has played local and regional tournies for a couple of years. that kid has a younger brother who also plays on a regional basis. The family has been around the sport long enough and at a high enough level to know the rules. At the start of the match the kid makes a few baseline calls, plays one or two other baseline balls, but is looking up at his dad after each one, who is sitting a chair or two over from me. I observe the dad on two occasions shake his head "no" and motion out (point up) at his kid. this is early in a very tight first set. IMO, and I realize I am being completely subjective here, the kid tightened up baseline calls considerably. The whole thing smacks of dad coaching son on calls from the sideline. I considered saying something directly to the dad, but wife and friend were sitting with him and I didn't have the balls. I considered saying something to the ref but didn't. I did let a "come on" go on what I thought was an agressive call, at which dad and entourage gave me teh evil eye, so I moved to another part of the deck so they wouldn't hear me.

    my son lost 5-7 1-6 so I'm not so sure the calls meant anything in the long run anyway....Any thoughts? thx
     
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  22. MarTennis

    MarTennis Rookie

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    He should stop play, go to the net, tell him how unclassy and uncalled for his behavior is, but in a tone no one can hear, then get back to playing.
     
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  23. cluckcluck

    cluckcluck Hall of Fame

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    Kill em with kindness! Tell your kid (OP) to tell the opponent, "Nice shot." On good shots.
     
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  24. db10s

    db10s Hall of Fame

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    At times I make it a yelling match (not a normal grunt, more like a dying pig), mostly because its hilarious when I out yell them. Its more of a thing to keep them from grunting when they hit a pusher forehand. Another thing is, once a parent was like "Don't let him get in your head, etc..." and the umpire gave them a warning for coaching, not intended, but thats a positive side effect.

    In the rare event that it doesn't work, I go full on MEGA serve, hit an angle to get them to come in, and crush it right at them (it may not be nice, but thats how you learn your lesson). It didn't work once, so I did it and yelled "Everyday I'm crushin' it!" and proceeded to shuffle all the way to the baseline.... I almost fell over laughing.

    Yep, I know that I'm going to take some heat for this.... But do you think I care?

    FYI: this is a bit exaggerated
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2012
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  25. 10ismom

    10ismom Semi-Pro

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    This is a very good suggestion for High Rustler's case.

    The opponent (and the parents) will feel embarrassed with their own action. Besides, this might even get into the opponent's head that your kid's level is higher and didn't care about a few skeptical line calls.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2012
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  26. TennisNinja

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    That's actually hilarious.
     
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  27. ClarkC

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    Laugh out loud when the other player does this. Relieves your own tension, and lets him know that you think he is a buffoon, while not actually saying anything that would get you in trouble with an official. Most people really don't like being laughed at, especially when they suspect that they deserve it.
     
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  28. db10s

    db10s Hall of Fame

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    This is what I (pretty much) do... :)
     
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  29. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    While your son is suppose to go get a ref, in that situation where you believe that a dad is coaching his son, you can go to the TD and tell him what is going on. Better to put it on the record, and let the TD handle it.
     
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  30. Number1Coach

    Number1Coach Banned

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    If your son has a great drop shot have him pull the kid to the net and nail him then yell out "YESSS" then repeat as much as needed thats the quickest cure . If he does not have a dropper teach him one .
     
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  31. Woolybugger

    Woolybugger Rookie

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    always take the high road and let your tennis speak for itself.
     
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  32. coaching32yrs

    coaching32yrs Semi-Pro

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    #32
  33. BMC9670

    BMC9670 Hall of Fame

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    Excellent article. The view that you have to be a disrespectful barbarian to be successful is becoming an epidemic in sport. I try and instill in my kids that it's important to not only have respect for yourself on the court, but also your opponent and the sport itself. That doesn't mean you can't be aggressive, just means you don't have to be an a-hole to win.
     
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  34. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    I teach my kids that I expect them to be better people than the other kids.
     
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  35. North

    North Professional

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    Yep. The kid does need to learn to deal with the jerks but I also support just dispassionately reporting the errant behavior to the refs/TDs. Hopefully, the jerks (kids and parents) wind up with a collection of complaints and a paper trail of a terrible reputation. I think the jerks count on people not reporting them due to not wanting to "make a scene" or out of some misplaced macho to "tough it out".
    Yes, learn to deal with it but also calmly let the officials know.
     
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  36. Number1Coach

    Number1Coach Banned

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    I hear what your saying and it sounds like the right way to go but nothing ever gets done especially when the match is happing "right now" so waiting on a paper trail of a kid who has a reputation should be dealt with "right away" . So let your racket and ball do the talking .
     
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  37. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    NOT TRUE AT ALL.
    I witness terrible cheating at a recent match,
    where the boy was unable to get a ref to watch more than two points.

    Neither boys were my kids, both were from my section.

    The mother of the cheated boy alerted the TD.

    In addition, I pointed it out to the TD on how that ball was in, and called out, etc.
    The cheating was on a scale that one rarely see.
    (TD's desk was near the court, so this was easy).

    I then put it in writing to the sectional and national office.

    The boy who cheated is now serving a suspension in his section.

    SO, CREATING A PAPER TRAIL ( EMAIL) AT THE SECTIONAL AND NATIONAL OFFICE IS KEY TO STOP THESE KIDS FROM CHEATING OTHER KIDS, AND MAYBE YOUR KID TOO IN SOME FUTURE MATCH.

    I have said it before, become friends with your sectional head.
    They do want to hear what is going on....
    If I am at a good tournament, I let them know, and visa-versa.
    At this point, however, my sectional head said only to call with the problems.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2012
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  38. db10s

    db10s Hall of Fame

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    I think you deserve a round of applause.


    PS: I suggest you get into the witness protection program.... Some parents are a little nutty :evil: :evil:
     
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  39. Number1Coach

    Number1Coach Banned

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    We had a problem with a parent talking trash to my kid at the tourny director was right there "he did nothing" so the following weekend made a phone call had 3 of the biggest ,hard friends of mine show up I walked up to the parent told my boys "this guy says one thing to my kid put him in the hospital" I proceeded to shake the parents hand and said "lets watch the kids play"

    The parent behaved very nicely with just a warning .

    My child won all were happy and from there on out that parent showed the utmost respect for us .
     
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  40. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    So, you had 3 bodyguard types threaten the parent and everything was ok for the match the following weekend.....

    HOW DOES THAT HELP OUT ANOTHER PARENT OR CHILD WHO WILL FACE THIS PARENT WHO TALKS TRASH TO THE KIDS?

    You just helped your kid out and no one else.

    Honestly, you act like this great Christian here quoting the Bible and this story just seems selfish to me.....

    Sorry, but this site is to help other parents and other juniors.

    What could have been done differently?

    How about recording at the moment with a pen and paper, taking out your phone and recording it, or writing an email to yourself
    with THE ACTUAL LANGUAGE THAT ANOTHER PARENT USED TO TRASH TALK A CHILD.

    Then, email it to your sectional office and your national office.

    What happens. Maybe, at that moment, nothing.

    But, you created a paper trail on this parent.

    I have seen bans of 6 MONTHS, THAT'S RIGHT 6 MONTHS, on parents.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2012
    #40
  41. BMC9670

    BMC9670 Hall of Fame

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    Threaten physical violence if things don't go your way. Nice lesson for the kids.
     
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  42. Number1Coach

    Number1Coach Banned

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    Listen if you sit there as a dad and allow some parent to call your kid a loser, clap at his double faults, clap at his unforced errors and do nothing about it "what kind of parent are you ?

    I feel bad for your kids, the one thing my kid knows is dad has his back at any cost , if your kids need that have them call me I will pick up where you cant.

    By the way its not a threat ! Its a choice presented to the other parent , its called grace .
     
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  43. db10s

    db10s Hall of Fame

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    I know that karma will bite them in the ***
     
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  44. BMC9670

    BMC9670 Hall of Fame

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    I wouldn't make it about the trash talker, I would make it about my kid being confident and standing on his own two feet - especially at 16. My kids know that there are a-holes out there and the best way to handle them is to handle your business and do the right thing. Play your game and let your game do the talking. Any other way and the opponent has accomplished their goal of getting under your skin. It's not about the a-hole who has to resort to trash talk and the a-hole who physically threatens back, it's about owning their own confidence and using their head.
     
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  45. Number1Coach

    Number1Coach Banned

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    You can call me and a-hole but like I said when your kids have a dad that allows another parent to abuse them verbally have your kids call me I will have their back also .

    Seriously you have a grown man attacking your kids verbally and you do nothing WOW.

    Its funny I was at a tourny here in Lakewood and there was 2 kids playing one who's dad is the head of psychology at ucla, the head psych is taunting the women and has his kids posted by the fence intimidating the lady and her child , I watched this for about 5 mins then as I watched the head psych decided to tell me "what are you looking at" ? wrong tree! , I walked up to him told him "feel froggy then jump " also said he would need more then the ucla medical center to help him and to knock his crapp off ,

    Guess what problem solved .

    What I have found in tennis is what I have found in college its a place where people mainly go to learn how to grow up cause their parents dropped the ball and someone needs to get these people mature !
     
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  46. tball2day

    tball2day Semi-Pro

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    ...........................
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2012
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  47. BMC9670

    BMC9670 Hall of Fame

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    I didn't call you anything. I don't get into these situations because I'm not you. You bring this kind of thing on yourself.

    You're funny - classic case of narcissism covering for a lack of self-worth. You didn't go to college, so you slam college and educated people. You're kid gets beat, make an excuse. Someone doesn't agree with you, name call and boast non-existent accomplishments. Nothing to show for your own life, live through your kid. It just goes on and on.

    And you feel bad for my kids. Well...
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2012
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  48. BSPE84

    BSPE84 Semi-Pro

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    If you woulda only used your boxing skills on that guy, think the entire SoCal junior membership would have given you a medal :).
     
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  49. tennis5

    tennis5 Professional

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    So, now you encountered another deranged parent ( and yes, I would agree that that psychiatrist dads are pretty nutty),
    and you threatened violence to the dad in order to stop him and his kids from taunting a mom and her kid.

    Ok....

    But, why can't you document it to the sectional and national office?

    What have you really done to stop this long term when they harass, your word was "taunt" another kid????

    Why not go the extra step? I know you can write on a computer based on your many postings.
     
    #49
  50. BMC9670

    BMC9670 Hall of Fame

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    Because he obviously likes to tout his own hubris instead of doing something rational.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2012
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