How to deal with side spin?

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by sureshs, Nov 5, 2012.

  1. treblings

    treblings Hall of Fame

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    good advice, given by me at #37 and #50:)
    some people like to talk about things others like to do things
     
  2. Prodigy1234

    Prodigy1234 Rookie

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    Small adjustment steps until the very last minute, if you look at this clip, against Nadal's sidespin, Murray takes very small steps.
     
  3. toly

    toly Hall of Fame

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    There is Federer Monster Kick (American Twist) Serve Ace http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mM1P2ej4YtY.

    Federer hits the ball with slightly closed racquet. That’s why the ball curves to the opponent right and bounces to his left.

    This player obviously is not able to analyze aerodynamics of the ball flight and cannot use any adjustable steps. Before he makes these steps he has to know exactly direction of the ball bounce.:)
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2012
  4. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    It usually isn't vertical, more like horizontal, yet I see it it move in the same direction in air and ground, so something is not right here.
     
  5. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    Because they skid
     
  6. toly

    toly Hall of Fame

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    There are two simple ideas:

    1. The axis of the ball spin is always parallel to the string bed.

    2. The axis of the ball spin is always perpendicular to the tangential component of the racquet velocity.

    So, to create gyro-spin the racquet must be not vertical, otherwise there would be just sidespin, top/back spins, and their combination. The latter type of spins doesn’t change direction of the ball after bounce.:confused:

    Maybe I should make some pictures to clarify the matter?
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2012
  7. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    You can explain, show, analyse, critique, show vids, all you want, but no player will ever understand until they go out there and face those shots.
     
  8. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    Agree. I can't believe this thread hit 3 pages. Move your feet, prepare early, play more tennis. It will all come together.
     
  9. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    I can prepare early. The first and third is beyond my means.
    The last, that came and went 30 years ago.
     
  10. toly

    toly Hall of Fame

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    In video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mM1P2ej4YtY Alejandro Falla, 29 years old pro from Columbia, looks like followed your advice, but failed to learn how to recognize direction of the ball bounce. IMO, he first must learn this stuff theoretically, then go to court and destroy Federer serve. :evil:
     
  11. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Of course it skids. My question was why toly said the racket face was vertical for a slice.
     
  12. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    What is the point of this post? By this logic, there is no need for this forum.
     
  13. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    Ur question was also why they continue in the same direction after the bounce.
     
  14. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    That was my original question. My second question was directed to toly.
     
  15. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    and that is why I did not deal with it :)
     
  16. treblings

    treblings Hall of Fame

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    that is not Falla in the video
     
  17. Avles

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    Not true. This forum can provide general technical guidance, tactical suggestions, potentially helpful mental cues (like "hit up the mountain"), drill ideas, and so on. That stuff can all be very helpful.

    But like treblings and LeeD are trying to tell you, those tips are just the tip of the iceberg. They'll get you started at best. You won't learn how to deal with tough sidespin from forum tips and explanations, you just won't. That would be be like trying to learn to play a Chopin prelude from reading a piano forum.

    Reps, not tips. Focused practice. Incremental improvement from experience, preferably guided by competent teachers. That's where real learning happens IMO.
     
  18. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    And your point is? Who said anything about not practicing? Do you think I post here when I could be practicing? Absolutely wrong. Every chance I get outside of work and family I am on the lookout to be on the court.
     
  19. Avles

    Avles Hall of Fame

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    Fair enough, I wasn't trying to accuse you of not practicing, and I feel the same way. The problem I face, and I suspect you face too, is that just being on the court doesn't really cut it, you need to be facing the kinds of shots that give you trouble, over and over, until you are used to them.

    It would be great if someone could just explain to me how to effectively respond to high, heavy topspin shots to my backhand, and then I could go put it into practice. But I don't think it works that way! If I am ever going to improve against those shots (and it seems like a big if sometimes) it will take lots more practice, practice getting my feet and body in position quickly, practice reading the ball, practice timing my stroke, etc. Those aren't really things that can be explained.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2012
  20. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    BH topspin should be easy to practice isn't it because ball machines can produce that spin. They cannot produce side spin though.

    Playing with a lot of different people is also important. Doing well against someone who hits with no pace can be as hard as playing against a college player. That is why I hit with everyone, from juniors to grandpas. Just last Friday I returned serves for a high school girl who seemed to have a very ordinary swing, yet was sending them down the T with a fair amount of spin and pace.
     
  21. toly

    toly Hall of Fame

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    Agreed, sorry for my mistake. :(
     
  22. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Since you asked, my point.
    Every 5.0 player hits the ball differently. Some will give you problems with their balls, while other's you will eat up. Knowing what a specific spin does helps you little. Knowing how to deal with different spins helps you a lot.
    As said by someone smarter than me, set early, racketback in balance, stroke thru the ball. Don't matter what kind of spin is hit to you.
     
  23. treblings

    treblings Hall of Fame

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    Federer hit an ace. as simple as that. he does that even against people like Djokovic. there is nothing you can learn theoretically, sorry:(
     
  24. toly

    toly Hall of Fame

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    I’m not so sure about Federer ace. So far nobody described how to analyze theoretically and practically ball path after contact. That’s why nobody knows where he/she must move with adjustable steps to get into proper receiving position. Maybe there should be no aces at all. :confused:

    You are right, he isn't Alejandro Falla.:)
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2012
  25. treblings

    treblings Hall of Fame

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    no i don´t think it is him, don´t know who it is, not important:)

    if you look at the video, federers opponent isn´t even swinging at the ball. if it where only a matter of misjudgement, you would see him swinging in the air. so, imo, it wasn´t only the kick but also pace and placement that contributed heavily to the ace.
    the returner has a split second to decide where the serve will go, at what speed and spin/slice. he does that by watching and evaluating what the server does before contact mainly not the ball path after contact. just my opinion
     
  26. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Time to revive this.

    Side spin is killing me. I tried the 2 main things mentioned in this thread: move more sideways and hit more through the ball with racket angle in countering direction.

    But the problems are many. The ball movement in the air and after the bounce disorients me. I can see the spin axis angled to the court and it makes me dizzy. When I make contact, the racket feels like it is getting wrenched sideways and I lose all power and control. And on top of this, the ball kicks in a weird way compared to just top spin.

    This is getting to be very problematic even as all other aspects of my game are coming under control.
     
  27. 5263

    5263 G.O.A.T.

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    just guessing without seeing video & with the assumption of out front contact, but

    this is likely due to early acceleration in your swing. If you swing with the
    intention of swinging to the ball slower and more deliberately, then intend to
    accel the hand up and across at the anticipated contact ( or very slightly before),
    then you should be more exact with your contact, and also still get strongly
    into the ball (which helps you to soak up and counter much of the spin effects).
     
  28. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    I think the early acceleration based on usual balls is screwing up the response to these kind of side spin balls. The balls are also faster, so that could be inducing a panic response.

    I just added some lead to my frame now to see how that works. Will test it tomorrow.
     

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