How to play cheaters!?

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by HighDesertHokie, Aug 24, 2011.

  1. HighDesertHokie

    HighDesertHokie New User

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    Every few weeks, I have to play doubles against the same guy who makes terrible calls. He's been approached by several players, but he's awkward and refuses to respond. Even his partner shakes his head and can't believe the bad calls, but can only overrule so many times. How do you make sure that the league match is played fairly against a cheater?
     
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  2. esgee48

    esgee48 Hall of Fame

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    Ask for a referee or umpire at the start of the match to assign an official to call lines. If his reputation is that bad, it should be relatively easy to get an official.
     
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  3. Fedace

    Fedace Banned

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    Follow Jim Courier's advice. The very next point you play, call HIS shot OUT. even if it is in by 5 feet, call it out. and tell him you can play that game all day.
     
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  4. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOvH-7lcjb0
     
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  5. Fedace

    Fedace Banned

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    #5
  6. HighDesertHokie

    HighDesertHokie New User

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    Thanks for the advice and I really like the Chicago way, but I can't see myself going down to his level and purposely making bad calls. There has to be a way to get through to people like this, and I'm sure it's happened to almost everyone out there.

    As for the ref, this is a weekly round robin league match and everyone is on the honor system.
     
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  7. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Some guys have there own dishonor system.
     
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  8. yonexpurestorm

    yonexpurestorm Rookie

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    whenever someone hooks me i just wait untill a crucial point and if it hits the line its out. that will always take care of it. that way if they cheat ill always get the more crucial point.
     
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  9. Mick

    Mick Legend

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    don't paint the lines :)
     
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  10. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    You won't paint the lines.
     
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  11. Mick

    Mick Legend

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    i think the best way is to play like nadal: hit high balls that land way inside the baseline and then use the drop volley whenever possible. he cannot call the balls out even if he wanted to :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2011
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  12. Fuji

    Fuji Legend

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    Exactly! If you have the ability to, just play safe tennis that's not near the lines and there isn't really much he can do! :)

    -Fuji
     
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  13. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Except beat you. Takes your best shots away.
     
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  14. Fuji

    Fuji Legend

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    True enough. Not all winners have to be close to the lines though, especially with drop shots and angled winners that pull them off court! :)

    -Fuji
     
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  15. Mick

    Mick Legend

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    i've played with cheaters before. the key is to keep your cool. if you get mad, you would play worse. i think only johnny mac could play better when he's mad.
     
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  16. Limibeans

    Limibeans Rookie

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    I always wanted to do that but I never had the balls to.

    I can do the "eye for an eye" but only on a ball that's like close to the line or something. Id have a hard time calling a ball that's a ft. in as out.

    Keep in mind I have very little morals.

    If its doubles I usually wait till the line caller is at net and whiz one right by them. If I actually hit them I just claim the point and move on.
     
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  17. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Just hit him and look at his partner. He knows what time it is.
     
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  18. bcart1991

    bcart1991 Semi-Pro

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    Ronaldo knows what's up.

    Playing in Atlanta, you learn quickly who the cheaters are (read: South Atlanta teams). It's like dealing with a bully, they'll get it once you start using their tactics against them.
     
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  19. North

    North Professional

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    I have found the more experienced cheaters doing just that. They will give you unimportant points all the time, even clearly calling against themselves, and reserve the cheating for only the crucial points.

    I'm not convinced that most of what seems to be cheating is actually deliberate cheating, though. I think there is just a psychological need some people have to see things in their own favour when calling lines that their perceptual apparatus convinces them your winner was out. There is certainly research on this relevant to crime/accident witnesses and interpersonal encounters (doctor/patient, etc). Needs and preconceived ideas cause people to "see" what is (or isn't) there.

    I suppose anyone who needs the ego-gratification of winning a recreational tennis match by unsportsmanlike line calling is pitiable but it is hard, at least for me, not to think of them as jerks - lol. I have twice resorted to simply looking a terrible line calling opponent in the eye and saying, "If your ego is so fragile you need to win by not calling lines accurately, then I feel sorry for you".
     
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  20. rjw

    rjw Professional

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    Years ago, I played a guy who made a ton of bad calls. It was on clay, so after a few, I asked to see the balls marks. He would find one a foot or two away and not a fresh mark either

    I got totally twisted out of shape as this continued, and he was making a big comeback, in that I was bent out of shape.

    Finally, he made another bad call on a crucial point (my service ace for set!!)

    It was his serve and I called his second serve out when it was clearly in. He had a fit and left the court. As he was leaving, I told him that I would gladly accept the forfeit!!!

    I hate stuff like this, but sometimes that's what it takes.....
     
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  21. MrCLEAN

    MrCLEAN Rookie

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    This. You never let them make you play a smaller court than the one defined by the lines. Never.

    But that's the point. You make it SO obvious that you know what's going on, and that you're not going to stand for it.

    Best advice to OP is to get an umpire though.
     
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  22. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

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    Agreed, they are what I term NUTS! And they are well on the way to making everyone else around them NUTS too.
     
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  23. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    #23
  24. rjw

    rjw Professional

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    I think that most can tell when someone makes a bad call for whatever reason, and someone who has an agenda that needs to be nipped in the bud
     
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  25. kylebarendrick

    kylebarendrick Professional

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    MrClean has it right. If you try to "right the wrong" by calling a close ball out on a crucial point then they will simply be convinced you are cheating. If you are going to call a ball out to prove a point, then it needs to be so clearly "in" that it is crystal clear what you are doing.

    Like others have posted, I've never had the guts to actually do it myself.
     
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  26. rjw

    rjw Professional

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    When I called my opponents serve out, it was in by at least a foot...my point was made and he left the court.

    I spoke with the club pro afterwards and he had a good laugh...and said that my opponent has a very bad rep for cheating.

    Prior to this, I was VERY upset and my game was going down the tubes.

    SO, should I have sucked it up and had a bad day, or throw it back at the cheater and let the smoke come out of his ears.

    Honestly, I felt bad for a while, but not for too long.

    In general, I ALWAYS give the benefit of the doubt, follwed by subtle hints if needed. This generally works, but sometimes...you need to play hardball, or suck it up and hope you can punish the cheater with your better strokes/strategy, etc.

    Tennis should be fun, win or lose, but I for one don't enjoy a loss due to multiple bad calls...does anyone?
     
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  27. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Yes, tennis should be fun and from experience cheaters cannot find a match from those who know.
     
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  28. Govnor

    Govnor Professional

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    I'm happy to say I have never been in a situation when I had to go eye for an eye. I hope I never will be!
     
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  29. rjw

    rjw Professional

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    I joined a tennis ladder 15 years ago....played 8 or 10 people without much problem, then along came.....

    Be prepared!!
     
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  30. Ironwood

    Ironwood Semi-Pro

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    Many years ago while attending a convention in the southern US, they had an afternoon set aside for golf or tennis. I ended up on the courts for a mens doubles that included the chairman of a major corporation, that has been absorbed twice since in mergers, but still trades under it's original shingle. He would be long retired by now, but over two sets I still haven't faced as many bad calls as I did that day...on clay as well where the evidence is there to be seen. Some of the calls were so bold as to be laughable but as he was a major sponsor of the gathering, we didn't protest. I thought afterwards, because of who he was, he was probably used to getting away with this behavior. When it comes to cheating, I still vividly remember that outing!
     
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  31. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    ^^ I'm sure if you had played golf with the guy instead it would have been much worse.

    Golf and tennis were the only choices? No boxing.
     
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  32. Limibeans

    Limibeans Rookie

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    I seen a guy pull out the OB marker string-peg-thing so he could play his ball.
    I seen a guy play his ball from the middle of a marked water hazard.
    I seen a guy step on another guys ball on the putting green so he missed a 2 ft. putt.

    I wonder if that CEO figure has a short little Asian guy following him around dropping balls down his pant leg.
     
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  33. Ronaldo

    Ronaldo G.O.A.T.

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    Not sure if a guy is cheating but in three sets the ball hit the line at least a half dozen times. Finally had to correct his call as my partner to keep the peace. It happens
     
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  34. skipcromer

    skipcromer New User

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    I did that one time in a college match (div. II). I was hooked (very obvious) and asked for a line judge, he proceeded to have one of his JV players come to the court as a line judge. I protested and asked that their assistant coach line judge (we only had one coach make the trip). When he said that wasnt happening, I hooked the kid bad on the next point. After that, we didnt have any problems.

    I ended up winning the match fairly easily, maybe 6-3, 6-3 or something to that effect. I still feel terrible about it. I am far from being extremely ethical and moral but I have never cheated before or since. To me its just one of those things where if the other guy wants to stoop to that level, let him.
     
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  35. rjw

    rjw Professional

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    I know that some take this stuff too seriously and use strategies like racquet throwing, temper tantrums, etc to try and get their opponent(s) unglued.

    I don't like it, but don't mind it that much, but when they resort to outright and deliberate cheating, then I draw the line (in the clay).

    I feel bad, but unless it's just fooling around tennis or as in a previous post, I need to kiss the ring... otherwise I have to let them know that they are full of it...
     
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  36. j00dypoo

    j00dypoo Rookie

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    it's usually either really young guys or seniors that make crappy calls (to the point of cheating). I've found the best way to handle the situation is call their balls out. The people in this thread are right. You will feel bad, but after 10 or so matches where this happens you'll get used to it.

    Btw, what the heck does "hooked" mean???? you got hooked... you hooked a kid? sounds dirty.
     
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  37. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

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    Yup you gotta' practice the take back point like any other aspect of tennis. At this point it's not a tennis match anymore, it's an exercise in diviant psychology. It helps if the cheater hits one square on the line right after they hooked you. Call it lound and clear and walk to the other side. Don't dare to reverse the call, stand firm, confident and enjoy the moment--no discussions--the cheater will understand, unless he's a psychiatrist.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2011
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  38. Paul B 40-15

    Paul B 40-15 Guest

    a guy I used to play with years ago used to do this sort of thing. I sort of made the mistake of telling him that sometimes when I hit from or behind the baseline, I can't quite see the baseline on his side of the court.
    he could never quite handle deep shots (it's one way I knew I could beat him so this was my tactic) in one game we played, he called ten shots or more out, as I couldn't quite see I couldn't really argue.
    someone playing on the next court told me after he had gone that every shot was either on or well inside the baseline.
    unless I hit from the baseline and then come in to the net so I can see the other baseline (which might leave me out of position) there was nothing more I could do.
    I did argue with him on nearly every point he called out in our next game but it didn't really do any good.
    he simply said, you can't see clearly anyway, so how can you tell.

    lets just say that from then on, every shot he hit that bounced near or on the baseline was called out.
    it may seem a little childish to drop to his level like that, but it sure put a stop to his fun and games, eventually.
     
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  39. skipcromer

    skipcromer New User

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    Hooked = Cheated
     
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  40. 8F93W5

    8F93W5 Rookie

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    Hidesert, Where are you? Are you near Apple Valley/Hesperia?
     
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  41. rjw

    rjw Professional

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    Need to reel myself back in...

    Since reading this thread, so many memories of cheaters have come to mind, but I let things get out of control.

    One of my regular hitting partners (and a good friend) made a bad call on clay this morning, during a fairly important point.

    He had been telling me about another one of his hitting partners who cheats and I'd been thinking about this thread.

    Anyhow, although I heard the ball hit the side of the line, and the ball skipped out sideways like it hit the line, I should have kept my mouth shut.

    It was just a friendly game (although we are both very competitive), but when I questioned the call, he got flustered and his game when down the tubes. I felt so bad!!!

    Sometimes it just isn't worth risking screwing up a good thing. Those dam cheaters can put you in a totally defensive mood when it really might not be called for.

    They take all the fun out of the game
     
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  42. skipcromer

    skipcromer New User

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    I try to give the other person the benefit of the doubt. I was playing my former high school doubles partner in a college match. My record against him is somewhere around 2 wins and 4,328 losses. However, on this day we were playing tight and I ended up winning the first set.

    Second set was tight and at 3-3 or 4-4 my opponent hit a slice approach that was landing deep in the court, backing me off the baseline a bit. I called the ball out. He questioned me on it (very respectfully) and I told him that I was 100% sure that the ball was out.

    I ended up losing a really good match in three sets and afterwards my teammate came up to me and made it known that I hooked my opponent really bad. Apparently that ball was well inside the line. However, at the angle I was at with the ball and the fact that I was backing up it made me miss the call.
     
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  43. Paul B 40-15

    Paul B 40-15 Guest

    play them at their own game so they know how it feels?
     
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  44. mahgeetah

    mahgeetah New User

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    To me cheating is never acceptable and calling someone else's ball out when it is not is completely unethical. Deliberately cheating people in revenge is going to lead to you (rightly) getting accused of cheating. Argue the other guy's calls but never assume that they are directly cheating you. Umpires in pro sports miss calls all the time.

    I saw my partner make a complete ass of himself last year trying to do this. He was wrong about their call being wrong and his revenge call was so embarrassingly bad I had to jump in on the other side and argue against him. I'm sure to this day he thinks he's right but I say no way.
     
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  45. HighDesertHokie

    HighDesertHokie New User

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    I'm in the northeast.

    I'm still not sure how I'm going to handle the situation the next time I play this guy but at least I'll have a lot of ammo. It sounds like the way to get through to a cheater is to call a ball out that's obviously in and make sure that he plays the same size court you do (by making bad line calls). I still don't think its right but its more about making sure the cheater plays a fair match.

    I really do love beating this guy when I know he cheated. There's something great about winning a match that was harder than it should have been. It just sucks when you lose and the line calls are all you think about.
     
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  46. HighDesertHokie

    HighDesertHokie New User

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    I agree with giving your opponent the benefit of the doubt on a shot or two, but when they consistently make poor line calls, there's something wrong on the other side of the net. They are either doing it on purpose or inadvertently calling the ball out. If you're consistently making mistakes that people are calling you on, then you're doing it on purpose. This cheater cheats every time he goes on the court.
     
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  47. West Coast Ace

    West Coast Ace G.O.A.T.

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    When I saw the title of this thread I thought it was about the Geico cavemen... guess not... bummer.
     
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  48. Caesar

    Caesar Banned

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    If someone can't beat me without cheating, then losing to them doesn't really bother me.
     
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  49. tennistim

    tennistim New User

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    Somehow this advice seems to contradict your signature:

    "Be the change you want to see in the world" - Gandhi
     
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  50. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    Do what Stan Smith did against Ion Tiriac in the 1972 Davis cup.
     
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