How would a modern 4.5 player fare against Evert in her prime?

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Claudius, Aug 25, 2009.

?

Who wins?

  1. Evert

    84.4%
  2. 4.5 player.

    15.6%
  1. Claudius

    Claudius Professional

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    Modern 4.5 player with modern racquet and strings vs. Evert in her prime with her equipment of choice. Who wins?

    My opinion is that a strong 4.5 could easily blow away Evert.
     
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  2. darthpwner

    darthpwner Banned

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    Nah ******** I think Evert would win. Evert is too consistent for 4.5s. High ranked juniors nationally in the 16s boys and male college players could beat Evert though
     
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  3. makinao

    makinao Rookie

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    I remember an Tennis magazine article back in the 70's by one of the male writers. On the urging of his buddies (who thought similarly to you) he challenged a US ranked player (Beth Norton). He was probably a 4.5 club player from his description. He lost in straight sets, managing to win only a couple of games.

    I remember his observations included 1) how consistently deep her shots were, so he could not attack, 2) how easily she returned his strong 1st serves, and 3) how she compared his best shots to another woman pro ranked lower than her.

    Evert would probably have bageled the same guy. Even now at 55, I think she could beat a 4.5 male.
     
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  4. Kick_It

    Kick_It Semi-Pro

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    At first I thought someone on the high end of 4.5 might be able to take a set from her. The more I think about it - that would be exceptionally lucky. I am clear they would not win the match; especially against her in her prime.

    IMO - you can't discount a multi-Grand Slam title holder's mental abilities, strategy, execution, footwork, and fitness against someone who would be lucky to qualify for a satellite circuit event.

    Today's equipment favors a baseline game; she was the role model of that game for many players.
     
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  5. ubermeyer

    ubermeyer Hall of Fame

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    lol, this is stupid of course evert wins
     
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  6. #6
  7. Claudius

    Claudius Professional

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    Hmm...So a 4.5 who can consistently hit 100+ mph serves and big heavy groundstrokes can't beat her?

    Maybe it's just me but I think a 4.5 should handle her easily.

    Think about it. All of her serves will be attacked. How the heck is she gonna return a 100+ mph serve? Can she really defend against heavy groundstrokes that kick with topspin?

    I think the 4.5 player would win relatively easily in two sets.


    Remember that this is a modern 4.5 player who may use a babolat aeropro drive with polyester strings and such.
     
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  8. Claudius

    Claudius Professional

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    Last edited: Aug 25, 2009
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  9. Claudius

    Claudius Professional

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    #9
  10. Kick_It

    Kick_It Semi-Pro

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    A strong serve might win points off her, but do you honestly think a 4.5 is going to serve better against her than Navratilova did?

    Do you think someone who won all the titles Chris did can't place her serve _extremely_ well? I can ace people with a well placed 60 Mph 2nd serve - so clearly pace isn't everything.

    A 4.5 is going to beat Chris with groundstrokes? No way.
     
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  11. Claudius

    Claudius Professional

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    Evert's groundstrokes aren't that penetrating. They're just consistent. A 4.5 can crush all of them. Btw, a 60 mph serve can be crushed regardless of where it's placed..
     
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  12. makinao

    makinao Rookie

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    Are you a 4.5? If you are, then you are giving yourself too much credit. But then, the only way to find out is to actually play a match, right? So go challenge Evert to a 3 set match, then come back to us. Oh, and be sure to tell the truth :)
     
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  13. Kick_It

    Kick_It Semi-Pro

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    I looked at the UCLA club video you posted. I noticed 2 things at least a few point sequences into it:

    1) 1st serve percentage is low - I think 0 for the first 3 points. What good is a 100+ mph serve if it doesn't go in?

    2) At a point in each of the points - at least 3 or 4 shots into a rally - their shots don't penetrate either - they're bouncing around the service line or shorter.

    I don't know how someone who has both their feet outside the singles line on the ad side of the court - especially if they're moving off the court - can crush a 60 Mph serve hit down the T. If you hit into their strike zone - sure. Do you think Chris is that stupid?
     
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  14. Claudius

    Claudius Professional

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    She's 55....no point in playing her now.
     
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  15. Claudius

    Claudius Professional

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    A 60 mph serve is junk. I don't care what kinda spin you put on it nor where it is placed. Hit a 60 mph serve and anyone who could accelerate the racquet head will crush it every single time.
     
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  16. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    After playing against a couple 4.5s I've discovered that they would not stand a chance of beating any WTA pro. 4.5 is certainly good and better than me, but as far as skills, they generally don't seem as good as I thought they would be. If I play my best I can hit winners against them and even win a couple rallies and games (if I serve well also), its just that in a match I don't get enough opportunities because I give away too many free points and they don't.

    I think a 4.5 with a very potent serve could probably win a few games against WTA, but it would probably be like a 6-2, 6-1 kinda match. The shots that might bother other 4.5 players would probably not bother a WTA pro. So not only is a WTA player going to have better racquet control and footwork, but they will also have better shot tolerance than a 4.5. Although I don't necessarily think a WTA pro would overpower a 4.5, but it depends on the player I guess.
     
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  17. Mick

    Mick Legend

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    i think at 55 she would still beat a 4.5.

    4.5 is not that good compared to her, that is.
    according to tw, a 4.5 player is not even good enough to use a k90 effectively (look at the k90 page, tw recommends it for 5.0+ players)
     
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  18. Claudius

    Claudius Professional

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    Hmm...I think a WTA pro would easily bagel a 4.5 every time. But I'm talking about Chris Evert here.
     
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  19. Kevo

    Kevo Hall of Fame

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    I bet she'd beat most 4.5s handily, especially if she chose to play with modern equipment. I think some 4.5s might match up well against her though, but they would be few. Her consistency and tactics would end up putting her over the top.
     
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  20. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    Well wasn't Evert a top pro? How can other top pros beat a 4.5 but not Evert?
     
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  21. dennis10is

    dennis10is Banned

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    Dude,

    You know that your post is a huge flashing Billboard that tells everyone that you have a huge insecurity right?

    I think the present day, not a Prime Evert would be a male 4.5 easily.

    What do I based this on. Well, a 6.0 older woman, late 40's, routinely beat up what I would consider a 4.5/5.0 borderline.

    We have a 5.5 young woman hitting at the park this summer and she easily beats up all the 4.5 men.
     
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  22. Kevo

    Kevo Hall of Fame

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    You're not really giving any weight to variety. I win a lot of free points on my junk serve, and I keep it around just for that reason. I like to hit some fast serves, throw in some slices, and hit some faster kickers. Then when I really need a point in a tight spot I will either go into the body or hit the slow kicker. By the time the person realizes it's about 20mph slower than what they are used to, they are off balance and trying to just get the ball on the strings.
     
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  23. You are comparing men with a woman. The first video is a 6.0 player not a 4.5 player. Dunno about the other video.

    Tennis isn't about how hard you hit or how fast you serve. If that was true, Roddick would have 20 grand slams by now.
     
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  24. Claudius

    Claudius Professional

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    Still not convinced. If I was putting money on it, I'd go with the 4.5
     
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  25. GuyClinch

    GuyClinch Hall of Fame

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    My tennis pro is a legit 5.5 - and just recently played in college. He also went to HS at the Bolleteri academy. He says he cannot beat Sharapova.. So I doubt a 4.5 can beat Evert.

    The women aren't as good - don't get me wrong. Some college guys can beat pro women but not all of them (against the top women). But a 4.5? Hell no. The women's strokes are so much more grooved and accurate..
     
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  26. Claudius

    Claudius Professional

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    You do realize she used a wooden racquet and hit slow slice groundstrokes all day?
     
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  27. atatu

    atatu Hall of Fame

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    She kill you now, she'd kill me too, and I'm a decent 4.5.
     
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  28. Claudius

    Claudius Professional

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    I will overpower her.
     
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  29. GuyClinch

    GuyClinch Hall of Fame

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    Evert still plays...and she can still hit. I don't know you would kill her now - not to mention in her prime. He accuracy is pretty impressive..What the higher level players can do very well that many amateurs cannot is hit the angles perfectly.
     
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  30. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    The poll shows that about 16% of the people responding to this question know absolutely nothing about tennis.
     
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  31. Ano

    Ano Hall of Fame

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    IMHO, a modern 4.5 male player with modern racquet and strings would get NO more than 2 games in 2 sets against Evert in her prime with her wooden racket.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2009
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  32. Ano

    Ano Hall of Fame

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    Yes, the article was in Tennis Magazine, December 1979,

    I posted about that article in this thread : http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=164803&highlight=beth+norton&page=2
     
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  33. Rui

    Rui Semi-Pro

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    WTA often play(ed) male players for practice. You wouldn't over power her.
     
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  34. Ano

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    #34
  35. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    I believe that WTA players often spar with 6.0 males. I don't believe that a strong 4.5 player would win any more than a few games against Evert.
     
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  36. kaibaNYC06

    kaibaNYC06 Rookie

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    I think the 4.5 has a chance.
    Didn't Venus lose to some college level guy a while back.
     
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  37. onehandbh

    onehandbh Hall of Fame

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    Something to consider is that Evert has played mixed doubles so anything
    the 4.5 male throws at her isn't going to be that big.
     
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  38. baek57

    baek57 Professional

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    This thread must be a joke. No 4.5 has any chance against a world class player. I'd take a 54 year old Evert using a wooden racquet over a 4.5 male using a pure drive easily let alone Evert in her prime.
     
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  39. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    That's some beautiful tennis! Back in the day, they had to rely more on planning and placement rather than simply power.

    Which Wilson racquet is Jaeger using? Is it the original Ultra with the metal PWS plates at 3/9?

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2009
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  40. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    You can't tell from a video how penetrating her strokes were. You have to be sitting at courtside to appreciate the action being placed on the ball by both Evert and Jaeger in that video.

    I think a modern 5.5 or higher with the racquets and string could take her using a woodie, back in 1982. There's a big difference between a modern 4.5 and 5.5, however. That 1.0 gap is like a fjord.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2009
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  41. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    Even now, she'd beat a modern 4.5 male player :oops:
     
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  42. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    You're making yourself look silly. She'd beat you now, too... guaranteed. I'd bet the score would be something like 6-0, 6-1. You may get lucky and take a game from her... even at 55 years of age.
     
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  43. Danstevens

    Danstevens Semi-Pro

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    Venus and Serena both lost convincingly to a pro ranked about 300 in the world. I'm not sure about a college player.

    As for a 4.5 beating Evert, no way. To beat a WTA pro, even one from the past, the amateur would have to be at least a 6.0. Otherwise, I fail to believe they would have the weapons to trouble a top female professional. If anything, a 4.5 would probably beat themselves because a prime Evert would be so much more consistent and so much fitter than them. She would just be able to stay in rallies until they made an error. It's not likely she would make too many unforced errors because they wouldn't be able to hit with good depth consistently enough to make her work.

    Of course, I am in no doubt that Evert could crush winners past any 4.5 but I don't really think she would have to. Her consistency and fitness as a pro would be enough to win the match for her.
     
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  44. deluxe

    deluxe Semi-Pro

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    Evert playing with a frying pan defeats the 4.5 by double bagel, 13 minutes, round 1.
     
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  45. v205

    v205 Semi-Pro

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    Didn't I read somewhere here that a college team player beat Hingis?

    I hope to be able to play against a female european satellite player (winner) that trains at my club. :D
     
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  46. aphex

    aphex Banned

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    evert at 75: maybe...

    evert at 55: maybe a game or two

    prime evert: maybe a few points
     
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  47. Cloud Atlas

    Cloud Atlas Rookie

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    There's no way a 4.5 male would beat Evert. Imagine in twenty years time, putting your average 4.5 club player up against Serena Williams? The 4.5 would get thrashed every time.
     
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  48. diamondgeezer

    diamondgeezer New User

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    Do you really think so? I'm not really au fait with the US rating system but from my limited experience a 4.5/5.0 would easily win against a 55 year old Evert.
     
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  49. Moz

    Moz Hall of Fame

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    Seriously, what is your competitive background? Tennis just doesn't work like that. A prime Evert would take a 4.5 apart comfortably.

    I've always wanted to try! :)
     
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  50. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    You're dreaming. Yes, a top Div 1 collegiate male could take a top 20 WTA player. But that Div 1 player would be close to a 6.0 level; nowhere near a 4.5 level.
     
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