How would a modern 4.5 player fare against Evert in her prime?

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Claudius, Aug 25, 2009.

?

Who wins?

  1. Evert

    84.4%
  2. 4.5 player.

    15.6%
  1. Clintspin

    Clintspin Semi-Pro

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    I am sure a good 4.5 player could beat Evert in her prime. I remember reading that Evert's brother, who played college tennis, beat her all the time. I don't think her brother was a top college player. I respect Evert's game but I don't believe she would crush a 4.5 player.
     
    #51
  2. kuhdlie

    kuhdlie Rookie

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    it would probably also depend on the type of 4.5 player we're talking about. if he's a 6'2-6'5 consistent power serving, serve/volleyer, with 1st serves over 110mph and big kick serves, he would do a whole lot better than a 50yr old 4.5 pusher who relies on the opponent's errors.

    with the power server, it doesn't matter who's on the other side of the net, he would at least get a lot of his own serve games won as long as he's not making too many mistakes at net. on the other hand, the crafty old pusher would get killed cos she would just out push him on every rally and beat him badly.
     
    #52
  3. GuyClinch

    GuyClinch Hall of Fame

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    Evert would win - she isn't a "pusher." in the rec sense of the word. She might be putting less energy into the ball but her superior timing and coordination enable her to hit with surprising pace.

    It's like watching Johnny Mac play - even at 50+ he can clean up against almost any of the teaching pros - never mind a lowly 4.5. You guys just GREATLY understimate the value of perfect accuracy and control with your shots.

    These old pros would take younger 4.5s apart. They have so much more skill around the court and so much better shot making ability with angles, spin and placement.

    I feel bad for people who think like this because obviously they have never got a chance to hit with a ex pro of any sort..

    Pete
     
    #53
  4. damazing

    damazing Rookie

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    What's most impressive about the video is how clean her shots are with that wooden racquet. I remember playing with a wooden racquet and I don't have fond memories.
     
    #54
  5. kuhdlie

    kuhdlie Rookie

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    control, accuracy, guile goes out the window when she's being aced by bombs.
     
    #55
  6. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    I agree. 4.5 pusher-type would get destroyed. 4.5 big hitter would only win a couple service games if he has a bombing serve. Neither type of 4.5 player would ever break Evert because Evert would always out-rally them. Even if she doesn't hit the ball that hard, her anticipation and shot tolerance would be so good she would always be in position to hit the ball.
     
    #56
  7. GuyClinch

    GuyClinch Hall of Fame

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    LMAO those "bombs" for a pro will look like scud missles - slow innacurate and hardly deadly. She will easily slice block back the vast majority of those. 4.5 players aren't going to be be 'acing" her. Sorry.

    It's sad you haven't hit with any ex pros. It would be an eye opening experience for you.
     
    #57
  8. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    In her prime, she beats a 5.0 love and love.

    You need to remember, these pros (talking of women), practice all the time against male pros, or high ranked juniors. Even when they are up and coming and in acadmies they are practicing and competing with males. A 5.0 ain't going to show someone of Evert's calibur something she hasn't seen a million times.
     
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  9. fruitytennis1

    fruitytennis1 Professional

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    A 4.5 will still lose to her. Mabey get 2-2
     
    #59
  10. raiden031

    raiden031 Legend

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    Gavin Rossdale aced Lindsay Davenport. I doubt he's above 4.5.
     
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  11. Claudius

    Claudius Professional

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    #61
  12. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    Claudius, not sure if you missed my previous post, but here it is just in case:

    "You need to remember, these pros (talking of women), practice all the time against male pros, or high ranked juniors. Even when they are up and coming and in acadmies they are practicing and competing with males. A 5.0 ain't going to show someone of Evert's calibur something she hasn't seen a million times"
     
    #62
  13. Claudius

    Claudius Professional

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    Even if Evert used a wooden racquet and the male 4.5 used any racquet of his choice (could be k90 or pure drive w/ a poly setup)?

    Do you think Evert ever saw a 110 mph serve? I remember watching Evert play against Virginia Wade in WTT and she was absolutely helpless when she faced a strong serve....which was most likely less than 110 mph. How would Evert break the serve of a 4.5 who can hit 110 mph bombs consistently?

    Sure any 5.0 during her day wouldn't have a chance against her. But a 4.5 with today's equipment? I'm putting my money on the 4.5
     
    #63
  14. FloridaAG

    FloridaAG Professional

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    Not chiming in re the wood etc, but you vastly overestimate the effectiveness of a 110 mph "Bomb" - Most 4.5 players cannot hit the lines and serve 110. Can they hit 110 serves? many can - Do they have pinpoint placement? Doubtful. A 110 serve is not very difficult to return unless it is well placed.
     
    #64
  15. dr325i

    dr325i Legend

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    If you call these 4.5, then there is a chance...
    IMO, BOTH videos show waaaayyy above 4.5.
    4.5 would win some points and serves, but no way it would even take a set from her...
    Her consistency, movement, planning, variety would blow a 4.5 away...
     
    #65
  16. Claudius

    Claudius Professional

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    You place a 110 mph serve anywhere in the box...Chris Evert ain't gonna return it with her wooden racquet.
     
    #66
  17. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    You could give Evert a half cracked wood frame against a 4.5 with the most powerful set up in a racquet you could think of, and she still beats a 4.5 **EASILY**.

    Not sure what you are failling to understand....... She practiced, and even competed (mixed doubles) with **MALE PROS** (IN OTHER WORDS, 7.0 MALE ATP CHAMPIONS).

    A 4.5 is not at the level of a 5.0, and not even close to 5.5. A 6.0 is in another stratosphere a 4.5 can't even fathom. 6.5 is even further away, and a 7.0 is another universe.

    Now, you seriously think a lowly 4.5 (which there are millions of them around the planet), could compete and even beat a 7.0, of which there are only a few hundred?? To add, one of the greatest players of all time?

    Any "4.5" ain't even the "Greatest Player Of All Time" in their public park.
     
    #67
  18. goran_ace

    goran_ace Hall of Fame

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    I've heard that when Evert was #1 in the world she would routinely lose in practice (and get extremely mad about it) to her brother, who played #1 in college at Auburn. That said, he was no 4.5 player.

    A 4.5 with a big serve could win a few garbage games here and there, but it wouldn't be a close match. A 4.5 trying to overpower her would be far too erratic. She's way too steady and would own him in rallies. 6-2 6-2 Evert.
     
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  19. Claudius

    Claudius Professional

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    #69
  20. dr325i

    dr325i Legend

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    Again, this guy has nothing to do with the 4.5...
    I think he would beat her using his (modern) power shots...
     
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  21. bmwfool

    bmwfool New User

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    I'm a USTA computer rated 4.5 player. I don't think 4.5 males stand a chance.
     
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  22. goober

    goober Legend

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    I know what a complete joke. He posts links to these videos that are suppose to be 4.5s. The first one claims he is a 6.0 and supposedly also has some futures experience and Claudius claims he is a 4.5? You can argue that he may or may not be a 6.0 but he is WAY above 4.5.

    The second is the UCLA club championships. These guys are not good enough to make the UCLA team (6.0-6.5), but they are way better than 4.5 and are at least 5.0 and the guys in the final are closer to 5.5.

    After seeing a lot of 4.5s play. I would say she easily beat any 4.5s in her prime. At her current age I think she could easily play with them even and beat a lot of them.
     
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  23. kuhdlie

    kuhdlie Rookie

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    a 5'6 woman using wood racquets of any level would find it hard to return 110mph serves from big 6'2+ guys, it's just physics. also 6-7ft kick serves will give her trouble and can be put away at net.
     
    #73
  24. dr325i

    dr325i Legend

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    One thing missing here is that NO 4.5 player would consistently serve a 110mph bombs and kick 7' up...
    That is the end for them -- her consistency
     
    #74
  25. JediMindTrick

    JediMindTrick Professional

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    The first video says the player is level 6.0. The second video shows a level A final. Level A is 5.0 and 5.5, since those guys are in the final they must be 5.5. It seems to me that you are shifting the posts, the question was about 4.5 players, and I think Evert in her prime would easily beat 4.5 players, simply because she was (A LOT) more consistent than them. If you want to argue that level 5.5 players could beat Evert in her prime than that's a totally different issue.
     
    #75
  26. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    How do you explain her doing exactly that when she was in her prime and playing the very best male players in the world in Mixed Doubles?

    Are you claiming a 4.5 has a better serve than a 7.0 top ranked male pro? :roll:

    You people need to seriously get your heads out of your rear end. <<it must really stink in there to be posting such filth and garbage>>
     
    #76
  27. kuhdlie

    kuhdlie Rookie

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    you find a big 6'5+ guy, it's pretty easy to consistently get it in at 110+mph, and those wooden racquets were like 65inches, it's just too hard for a short little woman to return that and with consistent pace to pass at net.
     
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  28. Mick

    Mick Legend

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    i think people (4.5) who think they could beat a legendary female tennis pro like chris evert have never played a match against a high level female tennis player.
     
    #78
  29. VaBeachTennis

    VaBeachTennis Semi-Pro

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    Some, if not many WTA players have.................men as hitting partners. I am willing to bet that those male hitting partners are rated much higher than a 4.5. I think Serena or Venus has a male hitting partner if I'm not mistaken.
     
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  30. VaBeachTennis

    VaBeachTennis Semi-Pro

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    LOL, too funny! Are you joking?
     
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  31. aphex

    aphex Banned

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    lol, seriously?

    this guy, wearing rollerblades, would bagel a 4.5...
     
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  32. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    I would predict a double bagel.

    But, if the 4.5 guy has a good serve and just blasted it every time, he has a punchers chance to take a few games.
     
    #82
  33. kuhdlie

    kuhdlie Rookie

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    dikweed, did she play mix doubles against andy roddick, or pete sampras or ivanisevic or karlovic, i'd like to see her return their serves with her wooden racquet. the post was about modern equipment against her, not 1970 male pros with wood racquets, read the post ******. and stop putting your nose up other people's asses and saying how it smell you disgusting freak.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2009
    #83
  34. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    so now you are saying Roddick, Sampras, Ivanisavec, Karlovic are 4.5 players?



    Now who is the "******"?? Like I said, get your head out of your rear end, and stop filling the boards with your filth and garbage.
     
    #84
  35. martinross

    martinross New User

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    Funniest post of all time

    This post was about whether a 4.5 could beat a prime Evert, and has devolved into a discussion of whether Evert could return Roddick's serves

    NO and NO

    Not many 4.5's serve at 110 if they do it is w/o placement or they have no groundstrokes or they wouldn't be 4.5's - understand the rating system. A 4.5 would be lucky to beat the USTA 50s top female players let alone Chris Evert (and in her prime?)
     
    #85
  36. kuhdlie

    kuhdlie Rookie

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    i know, but the other idiot says she played mixed doubles against other male pros, but those pros are not current male pros, that's only a reply to that.
     
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  37. kuhdlie

    kuhdlie Rookie

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    so you saying 1970s male pros used modern racquets with polyester strings?
     
    #87
  38. gzhpcu

    gzhpcu Professional

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    I know an old guy who when he was ranked around 5.0 played Maria Bueno in her prime and won easily...
     
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  39. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    read the OP, momo.

    To add, Evert, when she was in her prime competed and practiced againstthe very best male tennis players in the world (Grand Slam Champions). Makes no difference if they were using wood frames, because many of them were hitting well over 100+ mph on their serves with pinpoint placement, and crazy spin. No 4.5 could match that. EVER!!!! Regardless of equipment.
     
    #89
  40. kuhdlie

    kuhdlie Rookie

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    there's no crazy spin coming off 65inch wood racquets, and she ain't doing anything to 110mph+ serves of today. in 1970, you give her the choice of equipment then, what choices does she have, wood or steel racquets? like serena and venus, evert can practice all day against male players, but all the practice in the world isnt going to do much to return 120mph bombs. serena/venus got beat by 200 rank guy without the guy even trying, and he says once he increase the serve speed the girls had no answer. this is venus being 6'1, and evert 5'6 with wood racquet.
     
    #90
  41. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    I guess that explains why Mcenroes **SLICE SERVE** to the ad side was such crap, or why Borg wasn't know for his *Top spin* ground strokes, or Laver for that matter. :roll:

    You obviously are not very bright.

    Now, go back and read the OP, and let me know when you beat a number one female player with your modern frame, and 2.0 game.
     
    #91
  42. Claudius

    Claudius Professional

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    When I said "equipment of choice" I was implying that Evert would be using a wooden racquet.
     
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  43. JediMindTrick

    JediMindTrick Professional

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    Didn't Evert switch from a wood racquet to the ProStaff 85. You would think that she liked the ProStaff so that would be her equipment of choice. Not that it matters anyway.
     
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  44. aphex

    aphex Banned

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    quit while you're only this far behind.

    it can only get worse.

    (lmao at 4.5 serving 120mph bombs)
     
    #94
  45. Mick

    Mick Legend

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    haha. you know, last sunday in the final against federer, some of djokovic's second serves were only 65 mph and djokovic ain't a 4.5 player.
     
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  46. smoothtennis

    smoothtennis Hall of Fame

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    Geez guys. When you young guys think of Evert, you picture her in the 70's playing with 65 inch wood rackets, thinking she could'nt handle more modern equipment, pace or spin. This is ludicrous.

    Put the question a different way - expand your image. Could a 4.5 man today beat Monica Seles - the ball crushing kid from Bolliteri Academy?! Don't just remember the slow balling of the old days - take Evert against Seles with the two handed modern attack. She has beat Monica Seles.

    Take a look at the point at 4:40 - which happens to be a 41 stroke rally with Seles - and ask yourself this question. Could a 4.5 man today, play a 41 stroke rally in a competitive tournament - much less the US Open in front of thousands of fans - against Monica Seles? Well Chris could, and she beat her. Watch at 4:40 and enjoy where old game meets new equipment and new game.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OWp...422FAFC9&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=39

    A 4.5 today wouldn't be a 4.5 if they could pull this point off. Get it? Take a look.
     
    #96
  47. Flyingpanda

    Flyingpanda Rookie

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    My friend who is a 4.5 says that he would get his butt kicked by Evert. Moz who went fulltime at tennis and played at a high level in his age group says that Evert would easily beat a 4.5 player. Another person here who is a 4.5 says that Evert would beat him.

    You're the only person here who has claimed that you (assuming you're a 4.5) could beat Evert.

    The first two videos you posted were not 4.5 players. The first was a person saying he's 6.0. The second was the finals of the A level club tourney at UCLA. As an alumni from that school, I can assure you that the A level finals would be above the 4.5 level.
     
    #97
  48. v205

    v205 Semi-Pro

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    A 4.5 will not beat Chris now, let alone during her prime.
     
    #98
  49. BullDogTennis

    BullDogTennis Hall of Fame

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    i iwll say if someone got on here and posted a video of THEM playing that same way, i doubt anyone would rate them above a 4.5...LeeD would call them a 2.5
     
    #99
  50. SourStraws

    SourStraws Rookie

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    Good response

    Lets compare a 4.5 Player with Evert:

    4.5 Player:

    Topspin Groundstrokes
    110 Serve (According to OP)
    Decent movement
    Okay volleys
    Mental game: Questionable
    Possibly a pusher
    Could potentially be hit or miss
    Could lack consistency

    Evert:
    Relatively flat groundstrokes...Which are probably adjusted now to topspin
    Decent serve
    CONSISTENT OUT THE WAZOO
    Mental Game: Solid as a rock
    Volleys: Cant recall to be honest
    Movement & Footwork: Amazing

    So...Even if the 4.5 player could overpower her...He probably wouldnt make most of the shots he went for. Also, he would probably go insane from all of the balls he would have to get back, causing him to go for too much and make errors.

    Also, most of the players you posted are modern 5.5-6.0 players. And even if she did practice with her brother and lose, are you saying 4.5 players are better than Evert's brother in his prime given he was probably 6.0-6.5 level??

    You have no case, dude

    S.S.
     

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