How would a S. Errani vs a 5.0 Male from your League, play out????

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by Loose Cannon, Jun 6, 2013.

  1. Loose Cannon

    Loose Cannon Rookie

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    Hypothetical of course.....


    just curious as to how you think this match would look if it ever went down?
     
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  2. LuckyR

    LuckyR Legend

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    Perhaps you didn't see the 12 year old Nationally ranked girl vs USTA 4.0 level men's player. It didn't end well for the Club player...
     
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  3. Govnor

    Govnor Professional

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    I was first to respond to this one last time. This time I will wait for LeeD to weigh in first.
     
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  4. Govnor

    Govnor Professional

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    Is there a vid of that??
     
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  5. LuckyR

    LuckyR Legend

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    Not that I am aware of, but it was a featured article in Tennis magazine within the last year.
     
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  6. Gut4Tennis

    Gut4Tennis Hall of Fame

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    I'm a 41 year old 5.0 and have basically been a 5.0 since I was 18 ( except for the year I self rated at 4.5 and sandbagged), and I feel any female pro that has the skill to make the top 100 can beat any male 5.0. Now some 5.0's are actually 5.5 or 6.0 ballers that just happen to have a 5.0 at the moment

    If the player is a legit 5.0 male Errani would win like 62 64

    and that means Serena would utterly slaughter any male 5.0

    I think Errani could play #5 singles for UVA and Serena could play 1-3 singles for UVA

    Just my opinion
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2013
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  7. Govnor

    Govnor Professional

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    Shame, I'd love to watch that!
     
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  8. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    I'm a middle of the road male 4.5.
    I occasionally play male 5.0s; typical result is loss along the lines of 2 & 4.
    I've also had the chance to play a couple of the girls on the team of a local D1 school. Typical result is a 1 & 1 buttkicking. I guess they would be rated 6.0?
    Anyway, point is, from my limited personal experience, current D1 girl > typical 5.0 male league player.
    Given that an Errani would kill your typical D1 girl, transitive property would indicate that Errani would murder a 5.0 league player.
     
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  9. jhick

    jhick Semi-Pro

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    I pretty much agree with you (for the most part) with every up until what is in bold. No way either of them could play for UVA, unless you are referring to the University of Vermont.
     
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  10. Govnor

    Govnor Professional

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    I think the last thread was all we needed here. A pro female player is not going to lose to any "league" player. It's going to have to be someone along the lines of a 5.5-6.0 tournament/open male player to at least make it interesting.
     
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  11. Gut4Tennis

    Gut4Tennis Hall of Fame

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    we can agree to disagree

    :)
     
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  12. Loose Cannon

    Loose Cannon Rookie

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    Apprish the insight

    1-1??? Damn.....are the too strong from the baseline?????
     
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  13. magnut

    magnut Hall of Fame

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    Errani is a professional tennis player. She is going to destroy any 5.0 league player. There is a big difference between actual playing tennis and just hitting balls.
     
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  14. Loose Cannon

    Loose Cannon Rookie

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    some males just have a complex, where losing to a female at anything.....isn't a possibility, maybe Errani wasn't the best example.....but some of these women have NO power
     
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  15. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Ha, good one....
    Sara is a top 10 WTA player, not a #75.
    She can hang with 5.5 Div 1 men, crush any 5.0 man.
    There are MANY ex top 10 WTA players who'd barely hang with a tough 4.5, the ones who quit tennis entirely.
     
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  16. Loose Cannon

    Loose Cannon Rookie

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    and I never said the 5.0 would clobber or even beat Errani........she is a pro. I was just curious of possible scores
     
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  17. Loose Cannon

    Loose Cannon Rookie

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    Interesting.....

    'hang' with a 5.5.....but crush the lowly 5.0?
     
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  18. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    You mastery of English comprehension is lacking a little.
    "hang with" means she can play with any 5.5 man, and make it close.
    EVERY 5.5 man crushes a 5.0.
     
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  19. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Since women are usually .5 lower than men, Errani would have to be a 5.5 to be competitive with a 5.0 guy.

    What are you guys smoking?
     
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  20. Govnor

    Govnor Professional

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    I was just thinking what is the general rule for a good woman vs man match up.

    My own experience is that 0.5 is usually in favor of the man and 1.0 is in favor of the woman.
     
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  21. tennixpl

    tennixpl Rookie

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    a very boring match to Errani, but i'd still watch for sure.
    Its not the power, its nth improvement and the prep and the ability to reproduce stroke after stroke.
    maybe a 5.0 with a 6.0 serve, could serve there way to a few games but i doubt they would keep it up.
     
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  22. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Cindysphinx....
    Sara is a top 10 7.0 woman WTA player, if you didn't know.
    She would CRUSH KamikoDateKrumm in straight sets.
     
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  23. Avles

    Avles Hall of Fame

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    I'm not sure that this "rule" applies all the way up to pro levels. I think a 6.5 male player (satellite level) would easily defeat most if not all female pros, even the 7.0s.

    But of course Errani would just crush a male 5.0, even asking the question is silly. "Female pro vs. male rec player" seems to be an evergreen of TT stupidity...
     
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  24. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    Some of our sponsored top tier 5.0 combo players would crush Sara.
     
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  25. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    I am aware. What I am saying is that Errani is way better than a 5.5 woman, obviously.
     
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  26. Avles

    Avles Hall of Fame

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    Always good to get some actual experience as a reality check in these goofy threads...
     
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  27. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Poster 21.
    5.0 male with a 6.0 LEFTY serve can give any WTA pro problems.
    There are currently NO WTA lefty who can serve AND come to net.
     
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  28. therecanbeonlyone

    therecanbeonlyone New User

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    Agreed. Most of the top women have male hitting partners, right? If so, then 2 questions arise: who wins between them and what would the male's rating be (if he had one). My guess is no 5.0 would be able to get a job as a WTA top 10er's hitting partner.
     
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  29. heftylefty

    heftylefty Hall of Fame

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    DAMN! I better keep my day job.
    This sucks!
     
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  30. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    That could be a wild guess.
    As a hitting partner, he need only to hit about the pace and spin of the WTA girls, NOT like a 5.5 man, serve moderately, like to stay attached to the baseline, be a good travelling companion, be ready to hit whenever needed, and to hit, not play, during the hitting sessions.
    MichaelChang's regular hitting partner was his brother Carl, a former Div1 player at the medium level. Mike was a 7.0 MAN.
    I was a regular hitting partner for two years for both Mareen and Marcie Louie. Then wanted to face a lefty serve mostly, but our sessions were the full one hour allowed at GoldenGatePark. I was not to volley, serve at the body, or drop shot them when we played practice sets. I was a winning C player then, C is 3.5.
     
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  31. Avles

    Avles Hall of Fame

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    Thanks for the surreality check LeeD... always good to get some distant, hazy and no doubt selectively remembered experience in these goofy threads...
     
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  32. Govnor

    Govnor Professional

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    yeah I would think the most important aspect of being male hitting partner would be to have very consistent groundies that could replicate a WTA type of stoke.
     
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  33. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Whatever...
    If it never happenned to YOU, it must never have happenned ever, right?
    I lived in SanFrancisco, am Asian, both the Louie parent's liked me from the start, I bought a StanSmith from them, and the girls were impressionable 24 to 15 year olds.
    Best part is I didn't have to work, so played tennis 6 days a week, after the surfing sessions in the morning, of course.
     
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  34. Pickle9

    Pickle9 Semi-Pro

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    She is one of the best 10 women's tennis players in the WORLD at the moment.

    lol
     
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  35. Gut4Tennis

    Gut4Tennis Hall of Fame

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  36. drgchen

    drgchen Rookie

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    No way this is close to being true. Court coverage and power can often overwhelm an opponent. At levels above 4.0, the difference is probably 1.5. Sure a 4.0 woman can play a 3.5 man...but a 5.0 man could play or beat a 6.5 woman. As an analogy, a black belt who is 100 lbs isn't the same as a black belt who is 200 lbs.

    NTRP is not objective.
    The majority of people who play 5.0 in my areas have extensive tournament experience and or previous rankings. Because it is not for money, they want to win and therefore rank themselves lower than the real ability.

    My high school buddy was a former top 10 in the USA, played on the satellite tour and didn't make it. He became a teaching pro. Ten years later he was giving lessons to college players and still beating them. That is ten years of hitting the ball 8 hours a day additional to his previous training. He's a 5.0 when he plays.

    The head pro at my local club is a mid 20s man who played four years for a good Division one school and did not play ATP, so continued his career playing USTA and being a club pro to pay the bills. He is a local 5.0. In many states where I live, it is the same way, advanced players and or teaching pros are rating themselves 4.0. Last tennis mixer I played one guy was a satellite tour player, they rated him 5.0, his friend was a 20 something teaching pro, Div 2 college player, they ranked him 4.5.

    There is a HUGE difference between the men's and woman's game. It's not about having nice ground strokes and looking good on the court. Most guys who play 5.0 can kick serve over your shoulder and serve 120s. Most WTA women cannot do either.

    Tenniswarehouse playtesters rate themselves far higher than what I have seen in league play. They are probably more accurate in their ratings. If Errani played a 5.0 tenniswarehouse playtester she would destroy him. I've seen people play up to Granville's level (5.5) who rate themselves 4.0.

    In league play I would rate myself a 4.0. Based on comparison to tenniswarehouse players I would have been 5.0, close to 5.5 in my youth.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2013
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  37. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Geez, where were YOU hiding when everyone on here blasted me for saying a good 5.0 can play competitively with a #75 KimikoDateKrumm? Not a #10 Kimiko, but a #75.
    EVERYONE said I was nuts. I happen to know a few "5.0's" who played singles Div1 tennis less than 6 years prior. One guy got rated "4.5" somehow to play league.
    I guess everyone on here is a rigthie without a serve, stays back and hit groundies.
    A decent serving lefty who comes to net, serves like Div1, can wreck havoc on any WTA woman short of Serena, Aza, and maybe Maria.
     
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  38. drgchen

    drgchen Rookie

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    According to the official USTA NTRP experienced players rating guideline...http://assets.usta.com/assets/646/USTA_Import/PNW/dps/doc_13_7372.pdf

    Pete Sampras would be rated a 5.5. "World class player ages 41-50". As would Andre Agassi.

    I know everyone is for equality between men and women, but let's be realistic. Two major misconceptions are that once you get old your athletic ability goes to mush, and women can play sports as well as men.

    I grew up in southern california. Boys in my HS who couldn't make junior varsity could often double bagel the varsity girls who were CIF champions at the time. I've played against a female pro when I traveled to Asia...I remember the match was close, can't remember the score, but there was just nothing she could hurt you with other than consistency. Women outside the top ten routinely serve 70-90 mph on a good day...Those are the second serves I used to see in league play.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2013
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  39. Loose Cannon

    Loose Cannon Rookie

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    This is the best reply in this award winning thread......


    I just smh at the level of awe everyone has of some women players......they are...........WOMEN!!! So yes, the difference in power, skill level and other intangibles is going to be glaring.
     
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  40. Loose Cannon

    Loose Cannon Rookie

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    #40
  41. Loose Cannon

    Loose Cannon Rookie

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    If you are going to ATTEMPT to be cute with your little comment......wouldn't help if you worked on your grammar and spelling, slick??? Talk about making a fool out of yourself????

    And really.....your opinion means nothing to me. Zero.
     
    #41
  42. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    "they are women"........
    Serena is 5' 9" and easy 170 lbs. now that she's lost weight. She probably has shoulder strength equal to any man her size, and more leg strength.
    Maria is 6'2.5" tall, has reach only the tallest men have, and has trained in tennis since age 4.
    Azarenka is almost 6' tall, easy 160 lbs, and I'll bet, pretty strong.
    If Sara can hang with most of the WTA tour, losing only to the top 20, she's faced many people as tall and as strong, as quick and as agile as you and I.
    :)But I'll bet she can't handle a lefty with a big serve and a good volley.
     
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  43. tennis_ocd

    tennis_ocd Hall of Fame

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    World team tennis (and for that matter, although rarely given the opportunity to watch, pro mixed) gives a little insight into how a #70s type wta pro (e.g. a Karolina Pliskova, Irina Falconi, etc.) can serve/return against the likes of perhaps 500 to 1000 guys (6.0 match hardened type players). They hold their own.

    Errani is top 10 in her prime. She simply crushes a 5.0 guy. 0 and 1
     
    #43
  44. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Bingo! But wrong.
    They only hold their own against second serves.
    WTT is a show, nobody want's to see Dr.Ivo serve a little Cibulkova off the courts....
     
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  45. drgchen

    drgchen Rookie

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    There is a HUGE divide between the top few women in the WTA (Sharapova, Serena, Azarenka) and the woman who plays #50 or #100. Most of the top women have good shot placement and good consistency. A big serve and a big forehand can negate both. When you play an experienced man, to win, either it is in the tiebreaker, or you have to break the serve.

    I remember Davenport being number one on the WTA and saying on TV that her husband would beat her badly...because of the service game.

    Here is the bio of another local club pro with name redacted.
    He was ranked #2 in Western Australia under 18's and #10 in all of Australia. In 1994, at X University, he was a top 100 Singles player in NCAA Div. 1 as well as a top #20 ranking in Doubles

    He goes on to say that he was subsequently a 5.0 doubles USTA champion.
     
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  46. Gut4Tennis

    Gut4Tennis Hall of Fame

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    Lee that guy who played Div 1 is not a legit 5.0 and you know it. He should be 5.5 easily
     
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  47. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    No. Just... no.
    No, he is not a 5.0, at least not legitimately. Ironically, you yourself posted the link to the USTA NTRP experienced players rating guideline:
    According to which a person who played D1 at a good school and is under 30 is at least a 6.0.
    Um, yeah, please go play a current D1 woman player from a decent schools and then let us know how it went.
     
    #47
  48. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    I totally agree with you. But nobody enforces who is a 5.0 and who isn't.
    Lots of "5.0 rated" players should be 5.5, for sure.
    I cited my case, and everyone said I was either lying or was dreaming. I had won a big C tourney, second try. First was finals of a 64 draw C tourney.
    Next tourney, 2 weeks later, I went 3 rounds in PleasantonOpen, in the A's.
    Following round, two weeks later, lost first round in Concord, but it was 104 degrees my first round, and I live in the fog belt in SanFrancisco.
    Next A/Open, maybe 2 weeks after, I again went 3 rounds at Davis.
    I had NEVER played a B tourney (4.5) ever. OK, 3 Chinese Nats, best was round 4.
    End of the season, around late Oct., in TranAmerica qualifying, I beat two guys to make the third round of Q. One was a high school player, the other a number 4 for U of Tenn.
    Was I a C player (3.5), a B player (4.5), or an Open player (5.5) ?????
    I am now a self rated high 3.5........35 years later.
     
    #48
  49. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    LoL. I grew up with Jonny Leach and she is lying or you are quoting wrong as perhaps Rick would beat her but not Jonny.

    Back on topic, I know a National level 4.5 that would demolish Sara E. and any WNBA player.
     
    #49
  50. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    What is a High 3.5?

    Stoney or Rising?
     
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