How would a S. Errani vs a 5.0 Male from your League, play out????

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by Loose Cannon, Jun 6, 2013.

  1. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    35,687
    I have lost to 2 different 3.5 LEAGUE players, who both play 4.0 tourneys. Always close, but I lose because I have not been able to run for 6 years.
    One of them is undefeated this season, maybe 5 league matches, the other lost once.
    They both seem to be proud of saying they are "3.5", and dont' seem to have mentioned they play in 4.0's also.
    So, losing to them, I'm sure I can beat any legit 3.5 pretty easily.
    I can still play 4.5 doubles, can step in and compete in 5.0 doubles. Lefty helps, as does confidence in a good volley and serve.
     
    #51
  2. drgchen

    drgchen Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2011
    Messages:
    341
    Location:
    Ohio/Michigan, USA
    Article from 2004, transcript from interview.
    http://www.tennisforum.com/showthread.php?t=129241

    Tennis Week: You’ve got a pretty solid practice partner at home. How does he fair against you?

    Lindsay Davenport: He would probably beat me. We practice together about once a month. He’s pretty competitive and feisty. Male tennis players are pretty tough to compete against. He serves at like 130 mph and he does not play regularly. But he’s still pretty good. If he was able to serve and volley and practice for a week or two, he’d be tough to beat.
     
    #52
  3. Sumo

    Sumo Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2010
    Messages:
    613
    Location:
    Chapel Hill
    You sure ran with that quote to conclude "he would beat her badly."
     
    #53
  4. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    35,687
    Fact is, nobody on tour (WTA) plays serve volley.
    Nobody has a lefty serve. Dont' quote Kvitova or that German girl, those are pushes. Or that British girl. Those are senior men's serves...amateur senior mens.
     
    #54
  5. Timbo's hopeless slice

    Timbo's hopeless slice Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Messages:
    4,078
    how many of these silly threads does it take?

    5.0 gets a single game on his best day when Errani just gets bored..

    I play with a couple of national squad 18s players regularly, you guys have no idea, I can barely hold my own against them!

    typical complete disconnect from reality of the average club player, heck, you guys think 5.0 is something special, says it all..
     
    #55
  6. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2009
    Messages:
    10,492
    Lindsay is over rating him.

    No big deal. She is a woman.

    Most women that see me play on the backboard with my shirt off in the mornings ask me if I'm 5.5 or a pro and I say yes, on Craigslist I am. Lindsay would destroy Craigslist 5.5s.
     
    #56
  7. Gut4Tennis

    Gut4Tennis Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2013
    Messages:
    2,254
    Location:
    Tennis Court
    i'm surprised Serena gave Errani that one game
     
    #57
  8. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    35,687
    ATTITUDE....
    Serena is the Alpha female, looks down at Erani, sees a little skinny weak hitting girl on the other side of the net. Can't lose there, can she?
    OTOH, Serena can be compared to the 6.0 level of Div1 mens, so she's no average 7.0 female. By her serve percentage, she wanted to show the world what she can do against a softer hitting, slicing and looping top 10 female.
    What separates Maria, Vikka, and Serena from the rest of WTA? About a point in skill level....true 7.0's vs 6.0 women.
     
    #58
  9. asimple

    asimple Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2013
    Messages:
    437
    Many years ago I had a couple of matches against former top D1 players playing satellites who were ranked around 500-700 in the world. I was a decent 5.0 level player and got beat extremely badly but managed to get around 3-4 games each match. I have heard that top college guys and pros in the top 1000 should easily beat the #1 woman in the world. Given this I would still expect the woman to win easily but not necessarily some double bagel embarrassment.

    At this point, I wouldn't even attempt to play a college level woman or even decent junior for that matter as I would be very scared of the possible humiliation.
     
    #59
  10. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    35,687
    Sounds about right. Satelite playing former Div1 5.5's are 6.0's.
    You were 5.0, somewhat of a match. Now if you played them from the baseline, was right handed, didn't possess a huge serve (for your level), and didn't like to play net as often as possible, they would always beat you, so your 3-4 is entirely realistic.
    Now change yourself to lefty. Add a superior lefty serve, one faster than McEnroe/Connors, and ability to hit out wide. Now add some 5.5 level volleying. You will get another game and a half each set!
    A really old Navritilova, lost her serve, can still play competitive WTA doubles. That's 6.5 to 7.0 women's tennis.
     
    #60
  11. Avles

    Avles Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Messages:
    1,505
    Location:
    The Peak of Good Living
    Just curious, what's the highest level female (or should I say, FEMALE!!!!) player you've played?
     
    #61
  12. Overdrive

    Overdrive Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2012
    Messages:
    5,301
    Location:
    Garden of Gethsemane
    Seriously, are you people debating on how would a Top 10, active , professional WTA player against a recreational player?

    :confused:
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2013
    #62
  13. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2009
    Messages:
    10,492
    Most of my BowlingGOAT friends in the rec league Bowling forum claim they can score 300 against any major PBA bowler. There's just no way but its entirely possible mathematically.
     
    #63
  14. Overdrive

    Overdrive Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2012
    Messages:
    5,301
    Location:
    Garden of Gethsemane
    Can they wager on those claims?
     
    #64
  15. Gut4Tennis

    Gut4Tennis Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2013
    Messages:
    2,254
    Location:
    Tennis Court
    they wager a beer
     
    #65
  16. Overdrive

    Overdrive Legend

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2012
    Messages:
    5,301
    Location:
    Garden of Gethsemane
    Not all men drink beer.
     
    #66
  17. TTMR

    TTMR Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Messages:
    1,937
    I'm sorry, but what shot of Errani's would threaten a decent male rec player? Her 70 MPH serve? Her puffball groundstrokes? Her middling return game?

    All she'd have on her side is the inherently unfair advantage of training from a young age, and concomitant experience. The match would be on the man's racquet (as it always is), you can bet on it.
     
    #67
  18. Legend of Borg

    Legend of Borg Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Messages:
    7,890
    Location:
    Pazardjik, Bulgaria
    The match is always on the man's racket.

    Our local 3.0 could give her a good run for her money.

    PS: So much ego on this thread that I can feel my head throbbing.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2013
    #68
  19. Gut4Tennis

    Gut4Tennis Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2013
    Messages:
    2,254
    Location:
    Tennis Court
    lol

    I'm a legit 5.0 and she would beat my ***

    Any female as consistent as she is and fit as a fiddle would beat any 5.0 into the ground.

    The 5.0 guy would have to be ripping winners and how long can that last?
     
    #69
  20. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2011
    Messages:
    12,878
    Location:
    In the future
    I take Sara Errani in 3 sets. Sara would come in and 5.0 guy won't be able to pass her enough times.
     
    #70
  21. drgchen

    drgchen Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2011
    Messages:
    341
    Location:
    Ohio/Michigan, USA
    I'm sure that you remember everything that you hear once 9-10 years ago verbatim. The point made was the same point that I am making...A unranked male player, once competitive, could possess a 130 mph serve and close out his service games against the top women. Tennis isn't about who can hit the lines and who has the best ground strokes...if you win your service games you have won half the games.

    Then some poster made some comment that they knew jonny real well...

    NTRP is very fuzzy in its rating. Fact is that players who are officially rated 5.0 on the USTA site are often Division 1 men who have 4 years of college tennis, previous ATP pros, and other top club pros. Those are the facts.

    I've played tennis over 30 years. I used to call myself a 4.0. Hit with a number of former ATP players, college players U of Michigan, Wayne State, USC, futures woman in Thailand...I'm basing my OPINIONS on what I have seen and experienced. As a club/recreational player I was able to hold serve against a USC #2 singles player 4 times in a set. I could win games against a futures female player who was in her 20s, 5-10 years ago I was playing regular doubles with college guys from wayne and U of M in Michigan. My last pro was a former division 1 player, #1, player. There is a mile of distance between how he played and how the woman's state champ (practices at our local courts) plays.

    Top players know what is real. Players who just watch TV and make bold statements have no clue. Any WTA woman can destroy a 5.0 man counting points based on groundstrokes alone...That is based on consistency, but that is not real world tennis.

    Official NTRP 5.5 (currently a NCAA division 2 player freshman) who was hitting with Azarenka when he was in high school. (this guy will probably play ATP in the future) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7vFWf1cWdU

    Newspaper article from the UK about low level ATP man playing Williams sisters.
    http://observer.guardian.co.uk/osm/story/0,,543962,00.html
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2013
    #71
  22. RingerOG

    RingerOG New User

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2013
    Messages:
    22
    This is an interesting topic and I get asked all the time what the male equivalent is to a 7.0 top 15 WTA pro. To set the record straight, top WTA pros play at the 5.5 male ntrp level. Even Serena would not beat any legit 6.0 male player. Stop and think of all the men you know that are between 5.5-6.0, they are incredible, right. Now imagine a female that plays at that level. Top WTA pros are amazing at the game of tennis, just like the top ATP men are. Also, for those who think top WTA women can beat top Div 1 male players, think again. Serena would play dead last at the University of Virginia.
     
    #72
  23. Gut4Tennis

    Gut4Tennis Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2013
    Messages:
    2,254
    Location:
    Tennis Court
    I think she would pummel mitchell frank

    :twisted:
     
    #73
  24. goran_ace

    goran_ace Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2009
    Messages:
    2,830
    Location:
    At Large
    Funny. I've seen 5.0 males challenged by and even lose to high school girls. OK, so these weren't your average high school girls but top-50 sectional, college-prospect girls, but still that's a far cry from top 10 on the WTA. Sorry, you're not just going to over power them with your serve all day. They can slice it back and once you're trading groundstrokes you're going to have to work hard just to keep them from overpowering you.
     
    #74
  25. RingerOG

    RingerOG New User

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2013
    Messages:
    22
    Does anybody on this board think Serena could pick up 1 ATP point? I cant think of one player she could beat in the main draw of a futures. And I think Serena plays at closer to the 6.0 male level when playing her best. A male 6.5 would be somebody ranked 500 ATP, who is a solid pro, but does not make a living off of prize money. Serena would not even come close to winning Kalamazoo boys 18s, and the top players in that would be 6.0-6.5 males.
     
    #75
  26. Loose Cannon

    Loose Cannon Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2011
    Messages:
    384
    People are aware that Errani was tossing in 45 MPH 2nd serves...........hahahahaha How terrifying!!!
     
    #76
  27. Loose Cannon

    Loose Cannon Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2011
    Messages:
    384
    Bingo.

    Some folks insist on walking the PC path.....even when it compromises their intregrity......and clouded judgement
     
    #77
  28. asimple

    asimple Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2013
    Messages:
    437
    Clearly a 5.0 player is not going to be a top 10 woman pro, but I think your pushing it with high school players. When I went to school the top girl in state who the next year played #1 at a decent DI school could not even compete with the male number one who was at best a strong 4.5.
     
    #78
  29. Loose Cannon

    Loose Cannon Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2011
    Messages:
    384
    Interestingly enough.....quite a few people tend to disagree with your outlandish statement......


    Perhaps, you or your area's 5.0's are a bit weaker than some here are accustomed to....
     
    #79
  30. Loose Cannon

    Loose Cannon Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2011
    Messages:
    384
    Can someone PLEASE answer this gentleman???
     
    #80
  31. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2007
    Messages:
    4,043
    Location:
    NorCal Bay Area
    Funny how those of us who are actually male 5.0s, or at least decent 4.5, all have the opinion that Errani would easily kill any league 5.0.

    While those who are not seem to think she can't be any good because she's a WOMAN!!!

    Oh well...

    Done with this thread - adios.
     
    #81
  32. Gut4Tennis

    Gut4Tennis Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2013
    Messages:
    2,254
    Location:
    Tennis Court
    until be have a male 5.5 get a sex change and play the female tour we will never know the truth

    having serena play 1 match vs a 5.5 is not enough

    we need to see how well someone like serena who is dominating the female tour, how well she can do on the male tour for a whole year

    until then this discussion will never rest
     
    #82
  33. Avles

    Avles Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Messages:
    1,505
    Location:
    The Peak of Good Living
    No one's going to answer him, because most people realize that he's making fun of you. Check out his posting history-- he likes to post extreme versions of the more questionable opinions expressed on the forum...

    just fyi
     
    #83
  34. tennis_ocd

    tennis_ocd Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2011
    Messages:
    2,002
    lol. What I gleam from the quote is a top 10 wta pro admitting she'd have difficulty beating a 6.0/6.5 player.
     
    #84
  35. LuckyR

    LuckyR Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2006
    Messages:
    6,404
    Location:
    The Great NW
    Is there not a legit 5.0 man who has played a Div 1 woman player somewhere in this Forum??
     
    #85
  36. Avles

    Avles Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Messages:
    1,505
    Location:
    The Peak of Good Living
    Don't think so. Timbo is a teaching pro and Open-level player in Australia so I think he knows more or less how the levels stack up.

    Now, you didn't answer my question -- what's the highest level female player that you've played?

    Feel free to lie if it would help you save face!
     
    #86
  37. Loose Cannon

    Loose Cannon Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2011
    Messages:
    384
    Yeah cool....thanks for the heads up.....Im all over that....Im going to do a complete and detailed search of his posting History right now.....BRB in a few hrs:???:
     
    #87
  38. Loose Cannon

    Loose Cannon Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2011
    Messages:
    384
    I haven't played a more than a few 4.5's........Rarely ever played sets against chicks.

    Not sure what ME has to do with anything, I never said I could or would do anything.....:confused:

    Anyone that thinks Erranis soft groundies and 45 MPH second serves is going to fly.......oh well....its all opinion. SHE IS A FEMALE!!!! What is she to do? Out serve the male? Over Power? Out Finesse? Out-stamina???? its a match....not some hitting clinic where her form seems indefensible.....

    If you can atleast answer that in a rational way, instead of the Ím right, and you are ridiculous' tone....because really, who knows? Women are more fragile physically and a lot of times mentally, and may get worn down sooner than later

    Don't come in here trying to state your opinion as FACT.....because I don't buy it.....on any topic.
     
    #88
  39. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2009
    Messages:
    10,492
    Could an in-form nationally ranked 3.5 get a game off a declining Seppi?
     
    #89
  40. sam_p

    sam_p Professional

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2012
    Messages:
    1,127
    The real question is could Homer Simpson (4.5C) win three games from Nole if Nole played with his left hand only and they bet a Duff beer on the outcome?
     
    #90
  41. TennisCJC

    TennisCJC Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2010
    Messages:
    5,269
    I would think a male 6.0 would be competitive and possibly win against Errani. But, 5.0 male would lose due to her consistency. The 5.0 male's nerves would be fried from watching her run into the corners and hit deep consistent returns over and over. Also, I doubt a 5.0 is going to serve her off the court. If he could serve her off the court, he would be ranked much higher than 5.0. Once she starts the point, the 5.0 male is in deep trouble and he better be ready to run.
     
    #91
  42. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    35,687
    Repeat...
    Rightie 5.0 male with an average serve, stuck to the baseline, has absolutely no chance to win more than a breadstick a set.
    Strong smart serving lefty 5.0 who relies on volleying and overheads has an excellent chance to play even until it comes to 5 all, the will lose due to nerves.
     
    #92
  43. J_R_B

    J_R_B Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Messages:
    2,632
    Location:
    Newtown, PA
    Repeat...
    You're full of sh*t. No 5.0 male of any type or style would have a snowball's chance in hell against a top 20 woman of any type or style.
     
    #93
  44. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    35,687
    I think you're wrong, because you are a right handed player who doesn't play net and haven't practiced regularly with 5.5+ level women.
    I will agree a 5.0 man, rightie, no serve and little volley, can beat the 5.0 lefty dude....because he sees it all the time.
    There is NOT one lefty female who can serve and move forwards to net position, chip and charge, and has movement to cover the inevitable lob. NOT ONE!
    I'll bet MartinaNav is licking her lips watching all the big baseline hitters, all the spin all court weaker hitters, and all the one dimensional WTA player's on tour today.
    You may not think so, but I've hit with at least 7 different WTA, budding WTA, and former WTA players.
     
    #94
  45. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2009
    Messages:
    10,492
    Who's lips?
     
    #95
  46. Legend of Borg

    Legend of Borg Legend

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2007
    Messages:
    7,890
    Location:
    Pazardjik, Bulgaria
    The Poape strikes. :lol:
     
    #96
  47. tennis4josh

    tennis4josh Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2009
    Messages:
    345
    That is because the recreational players cannot tell difference in tennis skills of two players rated 5.0+ if they were just rallying.

    Let's look at this more objectively.

    Some facts, or let's just say my assumptions:
    1. We are comparing average male and average female players at their rating level.

    2. If you can summarize all tennis skills in one attribute, it's time. The one who takes time away from opponent always wins. How well he/she takes time away reflects in the score. Time can be taken away with pace, but it can also be taken away with finesse and placement.

    3. Men are stronger. They can generate more pace on serves and ground strokes than women. They can cover the court better and have more stamina. Women on the other hand are consistent, consistent and consistent. Basically they have different weapons. For this reason, we will not assume that Men have any special edge over women when it comes to serves or ability to serve and volley.

    4. I believe that if you look at average player at any level, The forehand is better than backhand for guys, but it's opposite for women. Since women almost always (I know the exceptions, but we are talking about average) hit 2HBH, they are stronger in that wing than in FH.

    With this background let's guess what the scores may look like in a battle of sexes.

    4.0 M always beats 4.0 W 6-1, 6-1 or better.
    4.0M beats 4.5 W 9/10 times 6-3,6-3, but may loose 4-6, 6-7 1/10 times.
    4.0M splits matches with 5.0 W. The scores are always close.

    Let's talk a bit more 4.0M vs 5.0W. The 5.0W has much better technique and consistency than the 4.0 guy. They both probably hit at the same pace, but 5.0W can hit a heavier ball compared to 4.0M. The 4.0 guy wins by getting free points on serves and also by putting more pressure on the woman's serve. Basically 4.0 guy can win with 1-2 punch strategy if he can execute it for the entire duration of the match. The 5.0W win's bigger share of the multiple shot rallies. Essentially 5.0W = 4.0M

    With that logic, a 5.0M playing a 7.0W (top WTA player) is same as a 5.0M facing a 6.0M and hence he should loose 1, 1.

    Thanks
    Josh
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2013
    #97
  48. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2011
    Messages:
    12,878
    Location:
    In the future
    JUST remember, what you see on TV screen is MUCH much slower paced than what is actually happening on court.
     
    #98
  49. gully

    gully Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2004
    Messages:
    790
    Ridiculous. Mr. StrongSmartServingLefty--who is, as you say, a 5.0--will be able to hang just fine with an average D1 woman, say a mid-lineup player from a midmajor--who is several notches below a top-level touring WTA pro. You think any male 5.0 no matter how you describe his talents, but still a 5.0, can hang with a player of Errani's skill? No way. No how. No sir. No chance. If he's a 5.0, he's not worth Errani's time to step on court.
     
    #99
  50. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    35,687
    Unfortunately, Sara doesn't have the power to bother any 5.0 man. Serena creams pants on a 5.0 man, as does Maria and Vikka. The big 3 are man sized, have the reach, have the strength.
    Sara plays by mixing spins, soft shots to corners, occasional screaming winners, sad 5.0 male serve, and is tiny at 5'6".
    She plays an all court game, with no huge advantage from the baseline, a major disadvantage at the net (short has trouble covering passes and lobs), and lost to Serena what? Breadsticks. Same as a 5.0 man, losing to Serena breadsticks.
     

Share This Page