How would a S. Errani vs a 5.0 Male from your League, play out????

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by Loose Cannon, Jun 6, 2013.

  1. Mike Hodge

    Mike Hodge Rookie

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    Depends on the 5.0 and his skill set. Not all 5.0s are equal. I'm pretty good friends with a 5.0, former DI college singles player, who's played against and hit against pro women.
    He said the big difference is Errani's serve. A 5.0/5.5 player with a good serve and forehand would give SE problems. ... Take the serve out of it and it's no contest, SE wins on skill, fitness, movement, etc.
     
  2. Loose Cannon

    Loose Cannon Rookie

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    I say yes,
     
  3. Loose Cannon

    Loose Cannon Rookie

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    Rather candid!!!


    Sorry, but for whatever reason, I found the bolded part quite chucklesome....
     
  4. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Of course, from the baseline, Sara by a mile.
    From the net, 5.0 man has the edge. Sara is just too short.
    Sara's serve is less than most Div1 women's.
    Most top women players, when they practice with their male hitting partners, don't run for the drop shot/lob combos, often give up the really wide sharp angle shots, and don't face the big flat first serves.
    They are working on their game based on the average opponent in WTA matches, not backyard hack Bobby Riggs style tennis.
     
  5. LuckyR

    LuckyR Legend

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    5.0 man vs Errani will never happen, hence it is an attractive topic for those long on theory and short on experience.

    Let's make it interesting: 5.0 man against Div 1 woman. This has happened, probably on numerous occasions, certainly someone on this Forum has either played such a match, or knows someone who did.

    If there is documented case of a 5.0 man beating a Div 1 women 6-0, 6-0 then we can bring up Errani. But only then.
     
  6. TTMR

    TTMR Hall of Fame

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    Interesting that the type and style of play of a hypothetical 5.0 that would trouble Errani corresponds to the exact type and style of play LeeD himself exhibited during his prime.
     
  7. Loose Cannon

    Loose Cannon Rookie

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    Update:

    This stands as the strongest post In this thread!!!!

    I Agree for the most part. Nice Analysis, chief
     
  8. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Well, think about it?
    Would a rightie 5.0 who doesn't have a big serve and stays at the baseline have any chance at all? NOPE, double bagels.
    Would a lefty, with the wide serve, and a flat up the T, who likes volleying, CAN volley, has an overhead, and is often bored playing tennis against conventional righties, have a chance?
    Certainly a heck of a better chance than your prototypical rightie 5.0 with an average serve and determined baseline play.
    Not saying lefty would win, but he would get many more games than a baseline rightie would.
    Remember, Bobby Riggs was a super weak hitting 5.0 when he played Court and BJK. Smart, yes. Gamesmanship, yes.
     
  9. Loose Cannon

    Loose Cannon Rookie

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    Bingo!!!


    I cant see why this is so hard for folks to comprehend!! IT IS A WOMAN.!!

    She has NOTHING to worry said players.....yeah...all that cute chipping, moon balling, and drop shot attempts is NOT going to fly vs a 6'3 in shape 20 some yr old player, who will serve her passive *** off the court.


    Everyone is getting their panties in a bunch and want to stay PC.....but save it. Errani sucks.

    To be honest, I don't like the 'but Its a Woman' excuse they tend to use in competitive situations......but guys are guys and women are women. They are just stronger in most aspects....not even pertaining to physical battles......Basketball or Tennis. It baffles me, why men also have to be better at Bowling, Volleyball, Golf, Poker, Video Games, Pizza Eating Contests, Sprinting, and belching Tournaments...
     
  10. Loose Cannon

    Loose Cannon Rookie

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    According to whom, exactly? I'm confused here:confused:
     
  11. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    A rising 5.0 with an Elite Donnay sponsorship and 6 pack Wilson bag would destroy Sara E.
     
  12. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    Oops. Dupe. LoL.
     
  13. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

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    Face it, LuckyR.

    Errani would stand no chance. She could never return the serve of a 5.0 TT man.

    I mean, you do the math. The 3.0 players at TT can rock the radar gun at 110. That means a 3.5 can hit 120, a 4.0 can hit 130, a 4.5 can blast 140, and a TT 5.0 can put a crater in Errani's torso with his 150 mph bombs.

    Her superior mental game, footwork, agility, conditioning, variety, experience and point construction would be useless when faced with a strokes of a top rec player.

    Let's not tell Sara. The truth would kill her.
     
  14. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Countered by....
    All Sara has to do to win would be to flash that smile, do the cutsey, show her legs, the most every 5.0 guy would swoon to a puppy eyed mush ball........
     
  15. asimple

    asimple Semi-Pro

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    A top 5.0 man is a borderline D1 college player while a 5.5 woman is a D1 college player. I am pretty sure there are a lot of instances where a man would win 6-0,6-0 with the right opponent and would probably win easily in most matches.

    I think that is the real question is how would a top female pro do accept a low end D1 college player and I think the answer is she would win easily but not completely dominate. I personally think a strong D1 college player would destroy them though and they would definitely get beaten badly by any touring pro.

    Men are just physically stronger/faster than women and I think there is a certain level in athletics where it is impossible for them to compete, but this is above the 5.0 level. I did actually hit with a few decent college level women when I was a junior (maybe 16 or so). Banging with them was not a good idea especially hard and flat, but if I threw in heavy topspin or slice I did pretty well. We never played so I don't know the result although I guess it probably would have been close.
     
  16. Loose Cannon

    Loose Cannon Rookie

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    Oh I don't think she would mind, Sphinx

    If that over the top humbling match yesterday didn't 'kill' her, Im afraid nothing will
     
  17. Topspin Shot

    Topspin Shot Legend

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    Errani would win 6-0, 6-0. Anyone saying anything different is delusional.
     
  18. TTMR

    TTMR Hall of Fame

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    Finally a woman not afraid to tell it like it is. I'm glad to see you do not buy into the politically correct feminist hysteria, and acknolwedge--rightly--that when it comes to athletics, a female professional is simply at the mercy of any breathing able-bodied male. It's his strokes that will dictate play, and the ultimate outcome. Always.
     
  19. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    Jim Couriers wife would destroy our rising 5.0s in ringer league. We were always in awe of her GOATness quotient. She was not a top 10 WTA player either.

    Delusional LeeD troll bait thread.

    Epic fail.

    WristAssist does not work. Just stop already.
     
  20. Fuji

    Fuji Legend

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    My soul hurts from reading this thread.

    -Fuji
     
  21. Loose Cannon

    Loose Cannon Rookie

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    I would like to take this time to clear up the confusion.

    I believe that folks think it says Errani vs a 5.0 WOMAN.

    She was serving 70 mph on 1st serves and 45 on some 2nd serves. A lot of 4.0's would smack that trash off the court. Yes.....footwork and fitness would over come getting smacked around and having trouble with the males big serves. This woman is terrible. Its not like I suggested Maria, Serena.....but the mid-carder that is Errani.

    Some of you are so stuck in your little mental box to actually allow your mind to foresee what possibly could happen. Either that, or you guys know some weak 5.0's that would have trouble with that serve and strokes....wow
     
  22. anubis

    anubis Hall of Fame

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    Isn't NTRP technically an "amateur" rating? How could an amateur beat a pro? NTRP guidelines don't really apply to pros.

    You can't even say that Federer or Nadal have an "ntrp" rating, they are way beyond such meaningless dribble.

    If they are so beyond it, you can't use amateur NTRP guidelines to predict how an amateur is going to perform against a non-NTRP professional.
     
  23. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    If Sharapova played like this on hardcourt VS a top tier 4.5 Texas GOAT I would put $ on the 4.5 GOAT.
     
  24. West Coast Ace

    West Coast Ace G.O.A.T.

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    I would agree with you IF tennis matches were rallies and started with underhand serves.

    People were tweeting during the recent match that Errani's 1st serve was in the 80's and her 2nd in the 50's and 40's! 5.0 males would crush winners off those 2nd serves. And if the 5.0 had a decent serve he would hold most of his serve games.
     
  25. Pickle9

    Pickle9 Semi-Pro

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    No one cares
     
  26. corbind

    corbind Professional

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    Top pro versus club player. I'll choose the "weak" pro.
     
  27. Mike Hodge

    Mike Hodge Rookie

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    I've seen a 5.0 guy (former college DI player) bagel a DI woman. The 5.0 guy had a serve; the DI female foe didn't.
     
  28. AtomicForehand

    AtomicForehand Hall of Fame

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    This. Thank you, Fuji.
     
  29. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    I cair.

    :(
     
  30. Legend of Borg

    Legend of Borg Legend

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    If in some future endeavor in my life I am asked by the chief of an African tribe, "Legend, what is sarcasm? Teach us the art of sarcasm", I will show him these two poasts and it will be glorious.
     
  31. Fuji

    Fuji Legend

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    Haha you're welcome. I swear, it's threads like these that make me question why I frequent this forum. :lol:

    -Fuji
     
  32. AtomicForehand

    AtomicForehand Hall of Fame

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    It's threads like this that drive me away from the forum for long periods of time. The sexism is shocking. Like, what century are these people living in?
     
  33. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    Our club pro is a declining 5.5.

    He has lost to rising 4.5s many times.

    U know who u are.
     
  34. tennis_tater

    tennis_tater Semi-Pro

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    I've seen a high level USTA men's 4.0 player (who should really be a 4.5) beat a nationally ranked 14 year old boy.
     
  35. asimple

    asimple Semi-Pro

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    A local nationally ranked U14 girl just beat a woman who was top 400 in the world in a recent local open tournament. My guess is that she would also take out all strong 4.0 men's players with the exception of at least one. I don't have too much ego left but would rather go to sleep thinking that I am better than a 14 year old girl. Luckily there is no way that I am going to find out the truth.
     
  36. KineticChain

    KineticChain Professional

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    I've hit against a fair amount of D1 girls and that isn't an accurate statement. A legit 5.0 guy should not have too much of a problem against the average D1 girl. If the girl is a highly ranked D1 player.. then things may be different.
     
  37. Arafel

    Arafel Professional

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    There seems to be a lot of male ego on this thread. It's pretty amazing, actually. Here's my best guess, from my own experience.

    I am a low-to-mid level 5.0 woman. I play Open tournaments in my area, and sometimes win a round or two before going out to better players. I have a regular hitting partner who is a 5.0 woman that played D-I college. To get match practice in before tournaments, I play on a local 5.0 men's ladder that is made up of mostly 4.5 men and the occasional 5.0 guy.

    Against the 4.5 men, I hold my own, winning about half of the time. People on this thread talk about the serve, but at the 4.5 men's level, most guys can't hit it any harder than I see better women hit it, and they often lack consistency and the ability to move it around. Against the 5.0 men that I have played, the serve is better, heavier, but it still isn't anything I haven't seen better women players hit. I haven't actually beaten a 5.0 guy, but I've taken some to 7-5 in a set. (I've also been breadsticked.) Sometimes, it really comes down to matchups and playing style. I don't always do as well against serve and volleyers, particularly good ones.

    I've also played a couple of women who were on the WTA tour in Open tournaments, including one who was in the top 60 at one point. When I played her, she had been off the tour for years and wasn't playing regularly at all, yet she was still amazing. Unless you are a 6.0 guy who can consistently crank 120+ mph serves and mix them up, the serve is not going to be a deciding factor against a top woman pro. In my experience, a lot of guys overestimate the speed and spin on their serve. Once the point starts, you would be amazed at how heavy the ball is that top 100 women hit, and how consistently they can get it deep and put you on the defensive immediately. It is really a huge difference from any 5.0 guy I have played against or seen play in tournaments that I have played in.

    To get back to the original question, Sara Errani is a top 5 player. No 5.0 guy would beat her. Her movement, anticipation, shot depth and placement, would all have a 5.0 guy on the defensive.

    Errani knows her serve isn't a weapon, so she'll mix it up and place it such that it can't be attacked. And no 5.0 guy is going to serve her off the court.

    For example look at the match stats here: http://2012.usopen.org/en_US/scores/stats/day14/2407ms.html

    Errani faced Kerber, who hit a fastest serve of 105, but averaged around 95. Errani's serve speed averaged 81, though her fastest was 93. Errani still won. Note also that Errani had an 84 percent first serve percentage, meaning she is getting a high percentage in so that her weaker second can't be attacked (the Brad Gilbert strategy).

    Now, compare it to the men's semifinal between Berdych and Murray: http://2012.usopen.org/en_US/scores/stats/day19/1601ms.html

    Berdych averaged 114 on his first and 90 on his second. Murray averaged 101 on his first and 84 on his second. Keep in mind these are averages, which means some are slower than 84 or 90, and some are faster. You would think that Murray would have been attacked a lot by the bigger hitter, but Murray still won.

    Power isn't everything.
     
  38. Loose Cannon

    Loose Cannon Rookie

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    Seems legit:-?
     
  39. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    A 5.0 would crush Murray and Birdich's weak second serves.
     
  40. Fugazi

    Fugazi Professional

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    She's a 6.5-7.0, so she'd win easily. On a fast surface, if the guy has a good serve, maybe it could end up 3 & 3...
     
  41. Nostradamus

    Nostradamus G.O.A.T.

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    Completely agree with this assessment. It will be like playing a super fast pusher with powerful spin shots. We all know how difficult this can be.
     
  42. tennisnut123

    tennisnut123 Rookie

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    yeah...The club Professionals at our club played doubles against the Uf gator women in three courts of dubs matches and they went either 1-2 or 2-1, cant remember which it was, but the matches were close. So Errani being a a top 5 womens player would win pretty easily. Our club pro's are 5.0s and a couple 5.5s were in the mix. Also depends on where you live and what state you play in lol...we get calls all the time from people who are from Iowa or something and are visiting Florida and claim that they are 4.5/5.0s and our 4.0s demolish them.
     
  43. Gut4Tennis

    Gut4Tennis Hall of Fame

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    thank you

    as a 5.0 male I agree with you

    the ego ridden males will never budge though as the ego runs more then skin deep
     
  44. tennisnut123

    tennisnut123 Rookie

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    I definitely agree, you hit the nail on the head
     
  45. Loose Cannon

    Loose Cannon Rookie

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    My assessment of this thread is......People are just rubbed the wrong way at the notion that a Solid rec Player....a MALE.....could lose to a small, soft hitting PRO WOMAN. Everyone is using different formulas.....well ~Bobbi Jane from FSU beat our Club Pro who is a 5'5 (perhaps 56 yrs old as well). Its funny to see so many people get bent out of shape and try to formulate all sorts of experiences/ opinions that would lead to errani 'Double bageling' or embarrassing the 5.0 as a lot as said......


    To keep it simple.....what would S. ERRANI specifically do.....that would simply overwhelm a strong 5.0 Male? Not Serena....Not Maria....Not the 16 yr old Jr you saw at Bolleteri's......not what a #5 womans pro SHOULD encompass??? But soley on what Errani would bring to the table.

    So I gather her 70 mph serves.....foot work and stamina....and baseline game would overwhelm said player?? What 5.0's are serving 70 mph serves? And don't have good footwork? Or don't have good ground strokes?

    For the record, I have not made one prediction of what a score would look like, I just find it funny when folks assume that because she is a Pro.....albeit it a Woman.....the young fella is gonna fold, get tired, shank balls all over he court and get over whelmed by a soft hitting, erratic FEMALE.

    Some guys just have I t in their mind that they will not allow a woman to beat them...at anything.....
     
  46. roman40

    roman40 Rookie

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    Clearly, there is about 0.5 difference between men and women on USTA scale. Given that a top 100 woman is far better than 5.5, I don't see how 5.0 GOAT can beat Erranni, although it would be an interesting match to see. Personally, it would be great if woman pros would do matchups like this for charity purposes, I think it would generate a lot of interest and would be fun to watch.
     
  47. Gut4Tennis

    Gut4Tennis Hall of Fame

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    I've seen errani get back with power a good % of 7.0 male serves in the world playing mixed doubles. no 5.0 is serving that well.
     
  48. Pickle9

    Pickle9 Semi-Pro

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    Could a legit 6.0 male take Serena and Venus at the same time?
     
  49. JoelDali

    JoelDali G.O.A.T.

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    Florida 4.0 GOAT would put the beat down on Billie Jean since she had hip replacement but if her hips were ok she would crush the 4.0 GOAT based on slam experience.
     
  50. asimple

    asimple Semi-Pro

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    This is not true and even documented by the USTA. A man is about 1 point higher by a 5.0 level rather than 1/2 a point. I would actually personally guess that a top woman pro is somewhere comparable to between a 5.5 and 6.0 men's player. It's probably closer to the 6.0 but definitely not higher than that.

    http://www.usta.com/Archive/Leagues...ons_About_the_National_Tennis_Rating_Program/

    I am actually a bit surprised there isn't more ego in this though. The likelihood of a 5.0 player beating Erranni is actually much higher than a 3.0 winning a round in an open tournament which I believe was a recent thread. I used to be one of the egotistical men who said a woman couldn't beat me at ..., but I was never quite stupid enough to think I could beat out a top pro.

    I was actually a bit surprised by the 5.0 woman's results against 4.5s and 5.0s. The 4.5s I can see as there is a wide range, but am really surprised about playing a 5.0 man close. As a strong 4.0 player I will still egotistically say I will beat a 5.0 woman though and I think badly.
     

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