Human Racket Poll

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by dozu, Mar 21, 2011.

?

Is the 'human racket'

  1. a valid teaching concept

    11 vote(s)
    26.2%
  2. solution to global warming

    31 vote(s)
    73.8%
  1. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    By popular demand, here it is.

    [HunterST] - "Do it, man. Make a poll asking if people think the human racket concept is a great teaching tool. No one is stopping you"
     
    #1
  2. upbeat

    upbeat New User

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    What would the "Human Racket" be, exactly?
     
    #2
  3. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    majority of lower level players (but could be up to computer rated 5.0).... since the instinct is to 'hit the ball', they will use the arm to swing the racket, after all, the racket is what makes contact with the ball. So common symptoms are -

    arming the ball - by definition, no need to engage the body since the intent is to use the arm to swing the racket; lack of core rotation - since player is just trying to swing the racket, no 'need' to engage the body.

    The 'human racket' concept, is basically asking students, to imagine the arm+racket unit as being 1 BIG RACKET, aka the 'human racket'. In order to swing this human racket that is 10-20 lbs based on gender and age, the player will naturally have deeper knee bends and shoulder/hip turns, will naturally have a more 'connected' swing where the arm is basically just passively following the core rotation, instead of actively trying to swing the graphite racket, and therefore gets out of sync with the body, or 'disconnected' from the core.

    so, using the GOAT as an example.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTjBXVQyiwg

    my point is that Fed in this video, his intent, is

    TO USE THE BODY TO SWING THE HUMAN RACKET, instead of
    TO USE THE ARM TO SWING THE GRAPHITE RACKET.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2011
    #3
  4. Sreeram

    Sreeram Professional

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    It is valid, but i dont think a beginer should be tought about it more. May be a good concept for a high 3.0 to 3.5 player. Let people less than that level learn to use their arm right.
    How do you use this concept to explain a running forehand or a forehand where the ball is dropping in front of you and you stretch foreward. In both the cases it is more of arming the ball.
     
    #4
  5. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    for the very beginner who picked up the racket for the first time, you are right, this is too much.

    but majority of rec players stuck at 3.0-3.5 trying to swing the graphite racket.

    running forehand, my favorite, and this concept is especially useful for the running situation... tossing the human racket into the ball, while you are running, is exactly how you have freedom of movement with the feet.

    players who try to swing the graphite racket in a running FH, will need to set the feet first, so the feet can be used to push the racket.... and these players usually get out of balance the moment they have to hit a running FH.
     
    #5
  6. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    I am thinking.... if this poll can even get close to 30% confirmation on the concept, that is still pretty darn good... considering that the majority of the tennis population has never felt centrifugal force in their game.

    and you will certainly feel the centrifugal force, if you swing the human racket.... if the arm is relaxed and just following the rotation of the core, you will feel that the arm is trying to fly out of the shoulder socket, and blood rushing into the hand/fingers during the swing.
     
    #6
  7. HunterST

    HunterST Hall of Fame

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    Hahaha, love how you're now making the standard of success so low that it's virtually impossible not to achieve.

    At least this has gotten the discussion back to tennis and not how good or bad Dozu is.
     
    #7
  8. i8myshirt

    i8myshirt Rookie

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    I've certainly improved my game using my upper body more rather than trying to arm the ball, but is it fair to say to not exactly label this as "the human racquet?" When I first read about the human racquet stuff on this board, I was confused because I couldn't really find a concrete definition of what it was (maybe I was just being stupid). However, if you could just say "use your arm as an extension of the racquet" to emphasize the usage of the chest in the swing, it would clear things up and help spread the message.
     
    #8
  9. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    standards being high/low, that's debatable... if a concept can help 1 student out of 3, will you use it?

    name another concept that you think can have 30% success rate, in INSTANTLY IMPROVING a player, and we can put a separate poll on that.
     
    #9
  10. Photoshop

    Photoshop Professional

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    It's a great concept. But it used to be pretty annoying how you responded to virtually every thread with just 4 words "take my magic pill." :D
     
    #10
  11. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    [non joking mode ON]

    all this perception of cockiness and condescending attitude with the magic pill and all, can be blamed on my old dogs.

    the type of trash talking going on in my garage is a lot worse than my posting style... yet the dogs and I we all know that we are just kidding around, and what happens in the garage, stays in the garage (or on the real golf course for that matter)...

    I probably got carried away with it.... unintentionally, and perhaps intentionally LOL.... but some guys like Djokovicfan4life actually figured out what I was doing... and therefore here it is again.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZtbASCE7ZY
     
    #11
  12. sennoc

    sennoc Guest

    Human racket is a simplified concept based on trivial and wrong understanding of physical energy generation in tennis strokes. It's valid for low-skilled players, let's say below 3.5 NTRP. At this stage it can help them. For more skilled players the concept is an obstacle, because it is physically deeply wrong. It's not possible to be a good player if you really think that good strokes are produced this way. In practice, none of ATP players plays like a "human racket". It LOOKS like they play this way but they DON'T.
     
    #12
  13. theZig

    theZig Rookie

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    think i've said it before, but there's nothing wrong with the underlying message; i just think it's worded a bit odd. overall the message is use your whole body in sync, be efficient, and maximize your gains (get out of your own way etc also work). it's the concept of "your concepts are hindering you", funnily enough. there's a way people think the ball ought to be hit (arming, etc) and the way it should be (fed, various pros). dozu's oftentimes said if people gave it more thought, it would make sense, and I believe he means more "look past just what your initial response is"; not necessarily "sit there and swallow my pill" but "sit there and think about how a pill works".
     
    #13
  14. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    how do they play then.
     
    #14
  15. cdubdub

    cdubdub Rookie

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    i dont like that you call the concept 'the human racquet'. I definitely have been using this more lately after i have been having a nice knee bend and uncoiliing in my legs, but i dont think "use the human racquet" and i dont take the magic pill. i just think 'bend the knees, explode into the ball'! and it really feels effortless and i can see the topspin jump into the person.
     
    #15
  16. rufusbgood

    rufusbgood Semi-Pro

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    I also don't think of it as "use the human racquet". I think of it as "Okay, now let's practice hitting like a girl".

    :arrow: :mrgreen:
     
    #16
  17. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

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    Well Dozu, at least we agree on something. The majority of this forum takes themselves WAY too seriously. Probably why we have so many "mental game" threads.

    Take some valium, guys, and stop worrying about everything Dozu does. Yes, his rants get a little old, but he's not even close to frequenting the Pro Player section yet. If you want someone to dump on, bring it. That's what I'm here for.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2011
    #17
  18. HunterST

    HunterST Hall of Fame

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    Or maybe you guys make jokes that aren't funny?
     
    #18
  19. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

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    Then don't read them. I don't care what you think. Maybe if I knew you it'd be different, but for the most part none of us care if you feel the need to control the forums. Maybe look into becoming a mod (not the ones with epic hair)?

    Until then, I'm gonna post whatever the hell I want, unless it really is hijacking a thread.
     
    #19
  20. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    I harass dozu because I didn't take the "MAGIC PILL" because drugs are bad.

    I would like to start using "Leggy Rackey" as the term to describe my prescription for bad footwork which we probably all have. So don't get all upset at me if I post "Leggy Rackey" all over the forum in the next few months. :)
     
    #20
  21. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

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    Well, my new obsession is with the loose arm motion on the serve. I'll be posting Jello Arm all over as well.
     
    #21
  22. theZig

    theZig Rookie

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    i suppose i could offer my Turning Torso...
     
    #22
  23. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

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    Also, the salsa serve.
     
    #23
  24. HunterST

    HunterST Hall of Fame

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    Geeze, and other posters are the ones who take themselves too seriously?
     
    #24
  25. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    I propose Hunter and D4L have a video poll to settle the argument.
     
    #25
  26. HunterST

    HunterST Hall of Fame

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    Would you support a video poll between Gadhafi and the people of libya? Whoever has the better tennis skills wins.
     
    #26
  27. Hewex

    Hewex Semi-Pro

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    Who would handle the escrow?
     
    #27
  28. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    we'll get to that part when both parties agree to move forward.... but I already know we won't get there, because 1 of the 2 already shown a habit of chickening out.
     
    #28
  29. HunterST

    HunterST Hall of Fame

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    For the record, I've posted a video on here before.
     
    #29
  30. jswinf

    jswinf Professional

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    If I kept saying "Leggy Rackey" to myself while playing, I'd be continually barfing all over the court. It would be messy. :rolleyes:
     
    #30
  31. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    where is it?
     
    #31
  32. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

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    Can we do a poll of who can pull off the worst stroke of all time? I'll be submitting my tweener attempt. Honorable mention to my forehand drop shot.
     
    #32
  33. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

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    Point is, you can't control what idiots like myself and Dozu do. And if you could, would you really feel any better?
     
    #33
  34. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    we already have a winner for that poll

    hint - future ATP point earner
     
    #34
  35. Djokovicfan4life

    Djokovicfan4life Legend

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    You know I can't keep track of all these videos, man. My senile head can't take it.
     
    #35
  36. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    shouldn't be hard to find... not many have a plan to earn 5 ATP points in the coming years.
     
    #36
  37. J_R_B

    J_R_B Hall of Fame

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    Just watch my 4.0 #1 Singles video and pick out any stroke you like.
     
    #37
  38. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    Lol. None here is getting any atp points anytime soon.
    The regular posters on here I mean not the real pros that wonder thru.


     
    #38
  39. HunterST

    HunterST Hall of Fame

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    Although you seem to take exception to the things I post, I don't really have a problem with you. Your posts, for the most part, are productive. Occasionally you get confrontational or silly, but most do.

    Dozu used to be that way, but he's just gone completely off the deep end, and a lot of posters are noticing. He's basically a troll now. I know, I know, some of what he says has a basis in humor. However, pretty much every troll on any board is trying to be funny, but they still get banned. Not saying Dozu should be banned, but he needs to cool it with all of the challenges and confrontational posting.
     
    #39
  40. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    name 1 troll, who's willing to put his annual income on the line, to win 2 matches in a 4.5 tournament

    also - 'being funny' is something that comes naturally... it cannot be 'tried'
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2011
    #40
  41. HunterST

    HunterST Hall of Fame

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    Trolling = Intentionally starting or escalating conflict. It has nothing to do with posting your income or a video. I mean just look at all the threads in which you're involved in an argument. Honestly, I wouldn't be shocked if you got banned.
     
    #41
  42. jester911

    jester911 Rookie

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    Well at least there is some good news. According to the poll we have found the solution to global warming.
     
    #42
  43. Avles

    Avles Hall of Fame

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    I guess the "human racquet" could be a helpful metaphor if applied properly-- i.e. in moderation, and with an eye for actual assistance rather than self-promotion. Maybe imagining the arm and racquet as one big unit swung by the legs/core could help some people.

    But honestly, to me it just seems like a different way of saying "don't arm the ball." I don't see what the big deal is.
     
    #43
  44. HunterST

    HunterST Hall of Fame

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    ahahahahaha
     
    #44
  45. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    define 'conflict'.

    to D4L's point... this stuff is all in your (or any reader's) mind.... a post can be perceived as a conflict escalator, or just a joke.

    and here is an interesting question - would it be a smart business decision, for dozu to get banned.
     
    #45
  46. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    well, currently it's standing at slightly below my 30% expectation, which aint terrible.
     
    #46
  47. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    you are exactly right, it is not a break-thru in tennis teaching or anything.... it's just a visual to teach the samething that everybody teaches.
     
    #47
  48. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    now you are happy.
     
    #48
  49. HunterST

    HunterST Hall of Fame

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    [​IMG]
     
    #49
  50. jester911

    jester911 Rookie

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    10% is slight? I had no idea.
     
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