Human Racket Poll

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by dozu, Mar 21, 2011.

?

Is the 'human racket'

  1. a valid teaching concept

    11 vote(s)
    26.2%
  2. solution to global warming

    31 vote(s)
    73.8%
  1. Avles

    Avles Hall of Fame

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    Ok-- but I see a couple potential issues with it from a teaching perspective:

    1. The term is cryptic--so you have to explain it every time you use it. Something like "Serve up the mountain" is relatively intuitive and self-explanatory. "Human racquet" sounds like mumbo-jumbo.

    2. We aren't used to thinking of our body parts as being passive burdens that we have to manipulate--when I move my hand, I perceive that as moving my hand, not as using my arm muscles to move a passive hand. So imagining that I am swinging a 10-pound racquet-arm combo doesn't really click for me.

    But hey, maybe I'll give it a try next time I hit. It can't possibly make my forehand any worse.
     
    #51
  2. tennisnoob3

    tennisnoob3 Professional

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    yeah, seriously? a lack of "no" as a choice?
     
    #52
  3. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    that's fair, when I teach the concept, I have never used the term 'human racket' lolol.... I usually just say the 'arm+racket unit'.
     
    #53
  4. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    so you are a believer of global warming then... lol.
     
    #54
  5. jester911

    jester911 Rookie

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    "Unit turn" has been the term I have always heard and it is a much better visual than human racket. The point is lost if the ball touches the human.
     
    #55
  6. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    ^^^^^^^troll....:)

     
    #56
  7. Sreeram

    Sreeram Professional

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    Nope you can use any part of your body to put the ball in.
     
    #57
  8. jester911

    jester911 Rookie

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    That is incorrect. The ball must contact the racket. If it even touches your clothing the point is over.
     
    #58
  9. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    putting a wrap on this thing -

    Hunter and Jonny, are you happy now? 17.xx% approval rating..... although I didn't expect it to go over 50%, but 17% is lower than I thought.

    OTOH, 'human racket' is just a different way to say 'keep your arm passive', which is a widely accepted concept.

    I think 17% is a reflection that most tennis players are still arming the ball, and have never felt what it's like to hit with a passive arm.

    In any case, the collective wisdom says 17%, 17% it is.

    thx for voting.
     
    #59
  10. jester911

    jester911 Rookie

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    I can't see 17% as any reflection at all how the voters swing the racket. It has much more to do with the poll itself.

    I didn't vote for human racket because it does not evoke any real visualization of unit turn in my mind. Trust me when I say that I have much more than just arm swing in my strokes.
     
    #60
  11. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    that's fair - a visual can only work for a portion of players.
     
    #61
  12. enishi1357

    enishi1357 Rookie

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    honestly, the human racquet stuff kinda only tell me I am doing something wrong but not really telling me what i should work on. There's multiple way of interpreting this concept. Also theres no standard on how to explain anything on this forum. Everyone has their own take on it and its ridiculous there's no system for it. My take on the human racquet concept is my dominant hand has to be relax at all times. I deducted that because dozu said I shouldnt use my arm to swing the racquet. At first I tried to use my body to hit but that was a huge fail because I just ended up hitting like a sissy. I mean it bring consistency but I doubt anyone can hit with pace doing that much less actual pro using it. So I think in another way which is to not use my arm to hit by relaxing it. If my arm is not swinging the racquet then the body must be. This help me be more consistent and getting the deep shot back with pace. Maybe dozu intended for me to think for myself and I appreciated it. I saw dozu hit a couple times before and I can tell his left arm is kinda dangling like mine before. That tells me dozu doesn't really use his whole body like the human racquet concept suggested. However, human racquet is not everything but I am grateful I somehow achieve it in my own way.
     
    #62
  13. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    @enishi1357

    thanks for your post.... it's a great lead-in to explain the real intent of the concept.

    the real intent, is for the arm to be reactive to the increasing centrifugal force caused by the core rotation, instead of actively trying to swing the racket...

    I have posted a couple of golf videos with the 'pushing kid on a swing analogy'.... when you push the kid, the arm is also 'reactive'.. say you stand to the side of the kid, and he swings to the top on the right side, when he drops from the top, your right hand is on his back, but in the beginning the hand is basically just falling with the kid, and meanwhile your legs/hips are clearing (rotating to the left).... and when the kid picks up momentum, your instinct will tell you when to apply the force with your arm so that the kid can swing very high to the left side and have a good time :)

    All pro swings have rotational and vertical elements - the ones we see on TV are all great swings and have a lot of rotational component.

    my own swing is custom made for myself, in the sense that there is a very big vertical component, so I can manufacture enough racket speed to produce a heavy ball, from a 40+ body with below average leg/core strength and below average flexibility.... and in that sense, the left arm dangling is not textbook, but is neither a flaw, because at that point in the follow thru, there is already very little rotational component left, which is what a folded left arm is for.

    so my FH really feels a lot like pushing kid on a swing, instead of on a merry-go-around LOL.... the left arm flying forward is what balances the momentum on the right side so I can stay square to the net at the finish.
     
    #63
  14. Manus Domini

    Manus Domini Hall of Fame

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    I tried this method, forgot to hold onto my actual racket, and I accidentally threw it but kept the human racket intact. What am I doing wrong? :(

    jk this method works imo
     
    #64
  15. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    that's funny :)

    I actually believe my FH is a legit model for rec players, especially if player has average/ below average physique -

    the vertical component is free energy from gravity (well, not exactly free, you get it from a high take back)

    the rotational component from muscle power (leg push, hip/core rotation).

    it's more effortless to have more vertical component.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2011
    #65
  16. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    So we can now agree with an 18% approval rating on this poll that the "Human Racket" is an idea that lacks enough substance to be used here at TT.

    In my opinion (which this poll seems to support) the term "human racket" does not illustrate the proper visual or mental picture for a foundation of a good ground stroke. Am I supposed to chest bump the ball? What exactly is a human racket?
    Another analogy that people use that more clearly demonstrates what dozu is trying to convey is the idea that the "arm follows the body" or that the "hitting arm drags behind the shoulder turn", or even that the body is "pulling" the arm thru the stroke. As opposed to "pushing" the arm. It is impossible to "pull" the stroke if there is no unit turn. It is entirely possible to "push" the stroke without any unit turn.
     
    #66
  17. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    ok that's fair -

    a more straight forward term would be a 'passive/reactive arm'.

    the 'human racket' term was created in a half-jokingly way and somehow it took on a life of it's own lol.

    see arche3, I am a fair guy.... unlike somebody who has played D1 tennis and tried to hustle $500 with a ridiculous bet.
     
    #67
  18. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    Glad you see it that way. Now we can all stop using "Human Racket" , and my personal favorite "magic pill"

    "Passive/Reactive" is much more informative than Human racket imho. But the arm is never really passive but that is besides the point. If it allows your arm to follow is the point.

    If I thought you would actually make a bet I would not do it . It was not a hustle. And I am old so what I did in my youth really has no bearing on my tennis abilities now. Any competent 4.5 can give me a run for the money now anyways. I simply wanted to illustrate to you how someone who keeps asking for "escrows" can be actually quite annoying. Now I will stop asking you for "escrows" since I don't want to be annoying to you anymore.
     
    #68
  19. dozu

    dozu Banned

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    ok ok I get.

    gee what a stiff.
     
    #69
  20. Manus Domini

    Manus Domini Hall of Fame

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    To me, it kinda does because it tells me not to try to swing with the arm but with the whole body. But maybe I'm just implying what I already know?
     
    #70
  21. TenFanLA

    TenFanLA Hall of Fame

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    The "human racket" makes a lot of sense to me. I'm 4.5-5.0 and I know in some tight matches I catch myself not using my legs and core rotation enough. When I'm playing very well, I REALLY launch with my legs and rotate my body while my arm just slingshots at a very fast speed (for me, anyway).

    Also if you are playing doubles and your partner is really screwing up, you can throw the "human racket" and save yourself the racket replacement cost.
     
    #71

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