hybrid string movement

Discussion in 'Strings' started by penguin, Jul 25, 2014.

  1. penguin

    penguin Semi-Pro

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    Hi!

    I have just been playing with a fresh job of Tourna BHBR 17 mains @52 and Quasi Gut crosses @55 on a PSC6.1 16x18 version.
    Ok, so my understanding was that the point of polys is that the snap back to their positions right? But that isn't happening- the strings are not straight unless I straighten them after the point. Am I wrong to be surprised by this?

    I was pleased with how it was playing otherwise, though the main spin benefit seemed to be sidespin.

    Many thanks for your replies.
     
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  2. esgee48

    esgee48 Hall of Fame

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    I think you want more tension in the mains than the crosses. You want the mains to snap back after the stroke. Search for poster Travlerjm and his experiments on tension.
     
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  3. eelhc

    eelhc Hall of Fame

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    The Quasi-Gut multi crosses will provide a softer string bed but the mains will not slide and snap back easily. The "sidespin" I suspect is from the multi's sliding on the BHBR...

    You need slippery/smooth strings on the crosses for what you desire.
     
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  4. SpinToWin

    SpinToWin G.O.A.T.

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    Polys do not slide well, but rather they let other strings slide on themselves well if that makes sense. As a result, poly crosses are better for spin as they enhance the string snapback. Furthermore, since you string poly less tight than multi or gut, the effect that esgee48 mentioned will automatically come in play with the opposite hybrid. Poly mains and multi crosses is a stringjob better suited to flat hitting.
     
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  5. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    I have a little different theory about how the strings and racket put spin on the ball. Poly will stretch but not a lot and they resist change more than any other string. When tensioning the crosses the tension will be lower on the crosses than it is on the mains because of the friction loss tensioning the crosses through the mains. Spin rackets have a high head length/cross string ratio to the width of the racket can expand easier and the length can compress more.

    Strings don't snap back because of the nature of the string but because of the racket forcing them back into shape. The more the string resists stretching (Kevlar, poly, stc...) the more bite the string will have. The more friction (softer) the string the more they will remain out of place. The slicker the string the straighter they will appear to be (for a while.)
     
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  6. penguin

    penguin Semi-Pro

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    Damn! I thought it was supposed to go this way around! Lot's of non flat-hitting pros seem to have them this way fwiw.
    guess I gotta wear them out now... #wantedgoddamspineffect:-x

    Irvin- I read your post 3 times and I couldn't entirely understand it. how would your theory affect my string job? Doesn't your second part suggest that kevlar would be spinnier than poly? me confuse...

    Many thanks
     
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  7. penguin

    penguin Semi-Pro

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    #7
  8. SpinToWin

    SpinToWin G.O.A.T.

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    characteristics in terms of power, comfort and feel, spin is something which depends on both cross and mains strings. Recent research shows that string snapback plays a major part in spin production, so using a multi or gut in the crosses is not to your advantage, as there is less mains string movement with such a setup (gut and poly move easily along poly, but not vice versa).

    If you only want spin, then check out travlerajm's ESP (Extreme Spin Potential) thread. I believe that he plays a kevlar/poly hybrid with a 20 pound difference between mains and crosses, which results in absurd levels of spin.
     
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  9. PaulC

    PaulC Semi-Pro

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    If you're a TRUE topspin player AND wants poly on main...

    (I have yet to see any current **true topspin** div 1 college or tour level player use gut or multi on main -- Fed and Droker are NOT true topspin players :) )

    Multi cross may not be a good choice for you as it's too soft that leads to the poly main notching into the multi and stick on it, most multi also are not slick enough for the poly to slide on it anyway.

    A better choice for cross would be a soft plain mono synthetic like Gosen OG Sheep Micro or Prince Original Synthetic or Forten Sweets.

    (for me and many, it's already soft enough to tame the harsh feel of polys)

    Many of my pals and I string them on mid size and 95 frames with open patterns at lower to mid 40 lbs without any serious string movement issue consider we Nadal-brush the tennis ball 70+ % of the time on both wings :mrgreen:
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2014
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  10. penguin

    penguin Semi-Pro

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    Ok, right- well that does figure because it notched already in 2 hrs of play today and they certainly couldn't slide across now... I thought the whole point of polys and hybrids with polys was spin. Didn't realise there were variations... Don't know if I'm a "true topspin player" but thought it could be fun to try it out! Some playing styles don't work without the right equipment...

    Many thanks
     
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  11. penguin

    penguin Semi-Pro

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    Spintowin: I checked out that thread. Interesting, but I'm not sure I want to try that radical a differential string tension that could damage my racquet.

    PaulC: when you are putting poly in the mains and mono synthetic in the crosses what tensions do you put on them?

    Many thanks
     
    #11
  12. Irvin

    Irvin G.O.A.T.

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    My theory (just my theory not necessarily factual) won't do anything for your strings. Using a 17 gauge main will allow the mains to snap back faster but the friction between the mains and crosses makes a big difference too. Kevlar/SG gives more spin than any hybrid I've ever played with. I've never used Kevlar/Poly or full bed Kevlar.
     
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  13. PaulC

    PaulC Semi-Pro

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    And don't forget:

    1. Unlike gut main/poly cross combo which have to be strung in 50 lbs+ and STILL need string savers (like Fed) to minimize movement, which we see Fed still has to move back the strings ALL THE TIME...

    2. Poly main/ mono syn combo can be strung at way lower tensions in lower to mid 40lbs, and still retain the playing characteristics of regular strings comparable to their 55+ lbs.

    (consider Nadal at one point strung his true 98+ frame at 48lbs, though it's full-poly)

    The lower tension actually helps the poly main to slide back into place more freely, as the syn crosses are NOT "LOCKING" the mains as tightly with higher tension.

    3. Besides the cross strings, main string snaps-back also depends on the elasticity and stiffness of the main string:

    You either go with:

    Elasticity -- Gut OR

    Stiffness -- Poly

    Since the main dictates the FEEL and playing characteristic, IF you prefer poly main that allows you to brush more aggressively (or recklessly :), then you just have to pick the right cross.

    And if your intention is just to soften the stringbed a little to tame the harshness, then the combination of mono-syn cross + lower tensions at mid to low 40lbs should work for you.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2014
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  14. PaulC

    PaulC Semi-Pro

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    Recently: Solinco Tour Bite 18 (or Soft) main / above mentioned various crosses at 40-44 lbs depends on WEATHER, higher in warmer days, lower in winter times.

    (in a variety of mid and 95 frames)
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2014
    #14
  15. penguin

    penguin Semi-Pro

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    do you mean 40 in the mains and 44 in the crosses then altering for weather?
    Many thanks
     
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  16. PaulC

    PaulC Semi-Pro

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    More like:

    40 main / 42 cross in cold weather

    41 main / 43 cross in warm weather (like NOW!!) :mrgreen:

    I have NOT done 44+ lbs for a few months (plus I am playing mainly with the smaller true 93s) :mrgreen:


    But since you have not try 40lb ranges before, I'd suggest 42 main/44 cross or 44/46 for a starter.


    Disclaimer: mileage varies -- same old, you'll need to trial-n-error to find out the best combo for yourself.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2014
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  17. teekaywhy

    teekaywhy Rookie

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    Interesting. Kevlar main poly cross. Have a set of head fxp blend and some yonex ptp.
     
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  18. penguin

    penguin Semi-Pro

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    PaulC: thanks for your responses. I see you're stringing the crosses tighter than the mains. Doesn't that reduce snapback or does it just not matter so much when the tensions are already so low? If I decided to still string in the low 50's would I need to string the main tighter than the cross? I find it complicated as you would normally string a poly looser, but you would also normally string the main looser if you want snapback.

    I will be using BHBR16 as the main and N.vy 17 as the cross on a 95 sq in 16x18.

    Many thanks
     
    #18
  19. gkamieneski

    gkamieneski Semi-Pro

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    I wouldn't use the cross N.Vy in a 17g, rather use the 16g if you're using either the 17g or 16g BHBR.
     
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  20. penguin

    penguin Semi-Pro

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    hey gkamieneski,

    Thanks- why is that?
    I have a set each of the 16 n.vy in blue colour and the 17 in natural. I thought I would prefer the softer feel of the 17. what would the 17 be good for if not a cross with poly?
    Many thanks
     
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  21. gkamieneski

    gkamieneski Semi-Pro

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    Good for full bed N.Vy. I can tell you that the 16g that I am using doesn't look much thicker than the 17g poly in the mains. In fact, I understand it to be 1.29mm.

    Higher risk of notching with the 17g N.Vy as cross.
     
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  22. PaulC

    PaulC Semi-Pro

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    Correct. It does not really affect snapback at all at such low tension, from my experience.

    The only reasons I string the cross slightly higher is because:

    1. I don't want the cross to move around, and
    2. I want my POG or Diablo Mids head shape to be slightly narrower.

    (I went so far as leaving the old cross strings on the frame each time when I re-string, BEFORE I set it on the stringing machine, so that the "pre-shaped" frame is narrower then it's original shape, and then remove the old cross after it's set on the machine) :mrgreen:

    Just a thought: since you're gonna string in low 50s, why not string your cross 2-4 lbs lower to see if it helps your main snap back more freely. :mrgreen:
     
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  23. penguin

    penguin Semi-Pro

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    Gkamieneski: a shame- I thought that the whole point of this string was to be a slippery cross and I thought that would still work at 17... I def dont want notches though- softness would be nice.

    PaulC
    Yes, I probably will string the main lower- but it is poly and it seems strange to be stringing the poly at a higher tension than the synth gut...


    Thank you all replies
     
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  24. penguin

    penguin Semi-Pro

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    Gkamieneski: a shame- I thought that the whole point of this string was to be a slippery cross and I thought that would still work at 17... I def dont want notches though- softness would be nice.

    PaulC
    Yes, I probably will string the main lower- but it is poly and it seems strange to be stringing the poly at a higher tension than the synth gut...


    Thank you all replies
     
    #24
  25. gkamieneski

    gkamieneski Semi-Pro

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    You can certainly still try it and see how long it lasts for you. When i was looking for the cross for the 17g BHSR, most if not all were using N.Vy in 16g as a cross. I even think Babolat has a hybrid set with 17g PHT and 16g N.Vy.
     
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