Hybrid: Which one is better setup,Multi/Poly or Poly/Multi?

Discussion in 'Strings' started by SJSA, Feb 15, 2013.

  1. SJSA

    SJSA Semi-Pro

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    I currently string multi in main and poly in cross for comfort and durability.
    Many people go for poly/multi for spin and control, I believe.
    My stringer told me most feel and effect from main and cross just supports main.
    Are there any other benefits for these two different setups?
     
    #1
  2. tyu1314

    tyu1314 Semi-Pro

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    multi main and poly cross give you least durability
     
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  3. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    I honestly think that multi/poly is the most pointless hybrid possible. As said, poly main will be far more durable than the multi main.
     
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  4. SJSA

    SJSA Semi-Pro

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    In my case, my cross strings frays first. That's one of reasons I have poly strings in cross.
     
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  5. Bowtiesarecool

    Bowtiesarecool Rookie

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    Lets go over the different setups and what they can do for you:

    Multi mains and ploy crosses:
    Multifilaments are designed for comfort above all else, with a secondary benefit of having slightly better tension maintenance than syngut. Poly is the compromise between the stiffness of Kevlar and the elasticity of nylon.

    Having multifilament mains in a hybrid is counterproductive because you're not gaining the spin-potential of the stiffer poly, and any increase in the overall life of the stringbed is marginal, at best. All you're doing is lowering the power of the stringbed.


    Poly mains and multi crosses:
    This setup has greater potential with the poly in the place where you would need it. The mains. Multi crosses soften up the feel somewhat, though your stringer is correct in saying the mains influence the feel of the stringbed more. The real benefit of multi crosses here is the nylon material is more flexible, thus allowing the stiff mains to bend out of place and snap back more easily.


    A few words about these two particular hybrid combos vs others:
    There are really only a couple hybrid setups that hold signifigant advantage over a full bed of whatever...

    Gut mains and poly crosses:
    Gut has the best resiliency (elasticity) of any string material. It stretches better and does so longer and more consistently than nylon, Kevlar, poly, piano wire, you name it. It of course is also the most comfortable. Gut is an ideal material for mainstrings when combined with poly...

    Poly crosses are VERY slippery and pairings like this work extremely efficiently because the inter-string friction is so low. Poly crosses lower the power by stiffening up the stringbed (how much the string bed will deflect upon impact), but increase control and allow gut mains to really stretch and snap back like nobody's buisness. This setup actually gets better as you play because as the poly loses tension, those mains have an even easier time moving in and out of place. It is recommended to use string savers to prevent the poly from sawing through the mains.

    Poly mains and gut crosses/syngut crosses:
    Poly is stiff and snaps back into place with great energy after impact. A soft, flexible cross allows the mains to do this more easily. Not quite as efficiently as low inter-string friction (which this setup still has, with a few drawbacks), but it nevertheless helps. The difference between this and the reverse setup is that poly loses its elastic qualities FAST. The harder you play, the faster it goes dead. Having a soft cross here will make this more noticeable because the dead mains will stretch, and not snap back at all because there's nothing forcing it to do so. You will no doubt read on this forum how many poly users above 4.0 will restring after as little as 8 hours. Pros change their Racquet every half hour. Thus doing what they do is not economically feasible unless you're touring for money.

    Kevlar mains and non-kevlar crosses. Extremely stiff and unforgiving but booooy, the spin is fantastic. Generally not worth the level of shock transfer to your arm.

    Syngut mains and poly crosses:
    Another hybrid that's not worth experimenting with. Syngut doesn't have the elasticity of gut, nor the stiffness of poly. You gain nothing here over a full bed of nylon.
     
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  6. Bowtiesarecool

    Bowtiesarecool Rookie

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    Cont...

    Shaped poly mains/round poly crosses:
    Another nice setup for poly lovers. Shaped polys like focus hex, snakebite, etc, dig into the ball well and generate what can be mind boggling amounts of spin. A smooth cross rather than shaped makes it easier for mains to shift out and back in, increasing spin potential.

    Multi mains/syngut crosses:
    If you need the comfort but want a little more action from the slightly stiffer multi, this is for you. Nylon is great on the arm. Multis are mostly nylon, made to behave a little less like a wet noodle.

    Zyex: imagine a string with the properties of gut and poly mixed together and this is what you get. Unfortunately, it like Danny Devito's character in "Twins". It has the softness of gut but the poor elastic qualities of plastic (poly). It has the durability of poly but no spin-generating high energy snap a high stiffness plastic brings. Some people like it for some reason. I have tried it and feel its the exact opposite of what a string should be. Take my opinion with a grain of salt... and sugar, since my op here is salty enough on its own.
     
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  7. netguy

    netguy Semi-Pro

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    Poly mains & Multi crosses for me.
    I get comfort and durability going this way...
     
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  8. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    When my arm cooperates, this is my favorite setup.
     
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  9. EastAngels2014

    EastAngels2014 Rookie

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    poly mains and multi crosses is what i go with and sometimes a full poly.
     
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  10. SJSA

    SJSA Semi-Pro

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    Thank you for your detail explanation.
    The best string setup for me is NG/Poly per your info.
    I can't handle poly in main due to TE.
     
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  11. Muppet

    Muppet Hall of Fame

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    When choosing a cross string, would I want to take the frame's twist weight into account? I once used full Scorpion at 52 lb. in my MuscleWeave 95 with a 59 flex and a low twistweight. When I hit wide of the sweet spot, I could feel the frame deflect.

    The same racquet has done very well with a 48/53 hybrid of Cyber Flash 1.25 / Hexy Fiber 1.32. The soft multi crosses match the soft twistweight much better than a poly cross.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2013
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  12. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    I have never even heard of twistweight.
     
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  13. uk_skippy

    uk_skippy Hall of Fame

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    Unfortunately you are wrong in some of what you say. Multi(filament) type strings are designed initially for performance & playability. They are a 'true' syn gut as they try and mimic natural gut. One of those properties is the comfort of the string I'll give you that, but that is not its main goal. Multis don't have as good as tension maintenance as regular nylon syn guts. With tension maintenance gut is king, followed by syn gut, multis then polys.

    While you say that having the multi in the mains is counterproductive, it is not. As previous mentioned, most of the feel of the string bed comes from the mains strings. A multi/poly hybrid is merely an alternative set up to a poly/multi. Each set up gives differing characteristics and players using hybrids need to find which set up suits them better. One may only be better than the other only in respect of the player.

    You mentioned that by having multis in the mains you lower the power. So by your words that would imply that a poly/multi would be more powerful. That is incorrect. As the main characteristics of the stringed comes from the mains, and multis are more powerful than polys, having a multi there would be more powerful. A full bed of a multi is more powerful than a full bed of poly.

    A benefit of having multis or indeed syn gut in the crosses of a hybrid is to reduce the stiff(er) feel of full poly.

    A gut/poly hybrid is a good choice because of the benefits of gut. Since nat gut & multis are similar as I've mentioned before, surely there's no reason to dismiss a multi/poly hybrid as you've done. In fact a multi/poly can be a cheaper alternative to gut/poly hybrid to those trying to get a similar type feel.

    Regards

    Paul
     
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  14. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Paul, I believe the reason why people don't tend towards multi/poly is for the reason you mentioned. Multifilaments are not nearly as resilient as gut or poly. Elasticity, however, is not the same thing. Elasticity is the ability for the material to return to its original shape after deformation (think about loading up a rubber band to shoot at someone). Resilience, however, is the ability for a material to absorb energy while being deformed and then return the energy (two rubber bands stretched equally far, the more resilient one will fly further). The amount of resilience (technically called the modulus of resilience) therefore is the amount of energy that can be absorbed before something is permanently deformed. When we want good spin, we want BOTH elasticity and resiliency, but if we have to choose, then it should be resiliency. Why? Because if a material can deform an enormous amount, but it does not absorb and return a lot of energy, then that deformation isn't working for us.

    That's what we've got when we're talking about a multi main. Multis are incredibly elastic, but since by construction they are not resilient, they do not return a lot of the vertical deflection (which as you know is now considered an integral component of spin) back into the ball. They tend to reach their limit simply by by being deflected laterally by the incoming ball. If you add in a poly cross, there is minimal sliding friction, so the strings become deformed vertically more easily to the point that you end up shortening their life. That's why people rarely use multi/poly for spin and report lower durability.

    Poly, meanwhile, is not terribly elastic. In fact, it's not meant to be. What it is, however, is incredibly resilient so that when the strings are deflected, they load up energy and then are able to return it without exceeding their limit. Death occurs when the string surpasses its elastic limit permanently.

    Gut is quite resilient, and it is incredibly elastic. By giving the gut a low friction surface, the gut can make the most of its elasticity as it does not have to overcome as much inter-string friction. Using a multifilament in its place, the string just doesn't return as much incoming energy into the ball as natural gut. Using a poly in the mains instead lets you reap the benefits of having a lot of resilience although with less elasticity. The multi in the crosses gives the string bed some more elasticity in the lateral direction, and this manifests itself in the form of power and comfort/damping.

    I guess in short, if you hit flat, then multi/poly shouldn't make much difference vs. gut/poly in terms of spin. If you hit with a lot of spin, then the multi makes little sense in the mains with poly in the crosses.
     
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  15. Muppet

    Muppet Hall of Fame

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    Twistweight is the torsional rigidity or inertia of a racquet. The resistance to twist.
     
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  16. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Haha I should have clarified, I knew what it was simply by name, but have never heard of it being a factor in choosing a cross string.
     
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  17. Muppet

    Muppet Hall of Fame

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    Its a spec used in TWU.
    I haven't ever heard of it as a factor for choosing strings either, but the Physics BA that I am has me wondering about this.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2013
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  18. Hi I'm Ray

    Hi I'm Ray Hall of Fame

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    Great explanation.
     
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  19. uk_skippy

    uk_skippy Hall of Fame

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    I agree with the points you've made as they mirror what I'm trying to say. As with all string set-ups, players need to understand what they want from the strings they choose and how it fits into their game, but also how it works in their rqts. This is the same reason why people choose the rqts they do based on their playing style.

    If someone wants a spin set-up I wouldn't recommended a multi/poly. That set-up would work well for a player hitting flat(ter), although the poly cross will help with a bit of spin. It'll also work well in denser string patterns, but not exclusively.


    In short (and not sure if you have this phrase in USA), but it's horses for courses; and going back to a previous post I quoted, just because 1 set-up doesn't work under certain circumstances it shouldn't be dismissed.

    Regards

    Paul
     
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  20. fgs

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    SJSA,

    you mention that you string multi in the mains for comfort and durability. what set-up you use currently and what durability do you get out of it would be an interesting information.

    i'm playing hybrids myself for almost four years now, but i put the poly in the mains, since i have a heavily topspin oriented game. i tried it out with multi in the mains too, but the durability was from 15 minutes including warm-up to slightly less than a two hours hitting session which included an hour of intensive practice and then the remainder matchplay, so this definitely is not an option for me.
     
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  21. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Gotcha :)

    And no, that's not a typically American phrase, although I am partial to using "swings and roundabouts" :D
     
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  22. INTO10s

    INTO10s New User

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    So, its sounds like if you are a strong topspin hitter and you also want to soften the bed for comfort and touch then polys (probably smooth is better) in main and multis in crosses is a good combination. The problem is that it will not take long for the multis to fray and break, usually within 5 days of use. What multi would you recommend to increase its durability in type of hybrid combo. X one biphase, wilson sensation, prince primer attack, head RIP control which one of these would you suspect to hold up the best (all 16G)
     
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  23. BigT

    BigT Professional

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    ^^Couldn't have said it better myself...
     
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  24. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    I would expect Head RIP Control 16 and Prince Premiere Attack 16 to last the longest.
     
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  25. Muppet

    Muppet Hall of Fame

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    I think a multi cross would last longer than a multi main because the poly main would rub along the multi. A poly cross would rub across the multi main. This would be magnified by a shaped poly cross. Somehow, this is not the case with a nat gut main. Something about the gut's oils acting as lubrication.
     
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  26. TennisCJC

    TennisCJC Legend

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    Been hybriding for last 6+ years. For last year, i have been using lots of syn gut mains/poly cross and multi mains/poly cross and I really like this setup. I get feel and softness from the multi with added control and spin from the poly. I call this the poor mans Federer setup which is gut mains/poly cross. I have played gut mains/poly cross many times and love it but too expensive. Currently using NRG2 17G multi mains 51 lbs/TF RuffCode 17G poly 47 lbs and I really like it - very good for first 8-10 hours. Then OK until multi bites the dust around 14-15 hours.

    I did use poly mains/multi cross a lot in my previous racket where I wanted to tone down the rackets inherit power a bit.

    I think if you are an all court player that volleys a fair amount, the best setups are 1. gut/poly, 2. multi/poly, and 3. syn gut/poly. The softer mains provide much better feel at net.

    If you depend on a power baseline game or you really need to tone down the power level of your racket, the best setups are 1. poly/multi, and 2. poly/syn gut. If you are rich, poly/gut, but this is a waste of gut for most of us as the the mains determine approximately 75% of a rackets feel.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2013
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  27. anubis

    anubis Hall of Fame

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    What tension would you recommend for stringing up a poly main/multi cross hybrid?

    I'd like to tame the stiffness of my 2013 APD by my normal Tourna BHB7 main and Prince premier attack cross.

    My favorite tension (though my wrist can't handle it) is between 50 and 54 lbs for full bed poly.

    Should I keep the same tension for a hybrid? I was thinking 54 mains, 52 crosses.
     
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  28. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    totally agree about multi/poly not being a wasted setup. It might give someone more pop and touch that they would benefit from. The ONLY hybrid that makes little sense to me is one with nat gut crosses...unless you have $$$ to burn.
     
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  29. corners

    corners Legend

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    Neither. Poly/syngut is better and cheaper. Just strings a little lower to achieve the same stringbed stiffness of poly/multi. Sticky, fragile multis are not a good choice for cross strings, IMHO.
     
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  30. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    If you can afford a decent multi as a cross, it will be more comfortable. The better multis are smooth and worth the extra few bucks.
     
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  31. SJSA

    SJSA Semi-Pro

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    You're right.
    It was my first multi/poly (Genesis Thunder Blast & Prince Beast XP) setup and last long only less than 8 hrs of play. Beast eats up Blast.
    I learned the best hybrid setup is gut/poly.
    Next one is poly/multi.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2013
    #31
  32. xsmasher

    xsmasher Rookie

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    I use multi mains and poly crosses in my 18x20 since it last long enough and has good power for dense string bed. And the opposite way around for my 16x19 racquet.
     
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  33. SJSA

    SJSA Semi-Pro

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    Mine is Prince EXO3 Tour 16x18.
     
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