Hyo's latest and greatest video - NTRP 5.5

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by hyogen, Oct 2, 2009.

?

rate me

  1. 1.5

    3 vote(s)
    5.4%
  2. 2.0

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. 2.5

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. 3.0

    4 vote(s)
    7.1%
  5. 3.5

    10 vote(s)
    17.9%
  6. 4.0

    16 vote(s)
    28.6%
  7. 4.5

    6 vote(s)
    10.7%
  8. 5.0

    2 vote(s)
    3.6%
  9. 5.5

    2 vote(s)
    3.6%
  10. gonna win the next US Open 2010

    13 vote(s)
    23.2%
  1. hyogen

    hyogen Hall of Fame

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    #1
  2. tricky

    tricky Hall of Fame

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    Footwork:
    Step patterns are in wrong order. Try tracking the incoming ball with the foot closest to the estimated strike point.

    FH:

    Non-hitting arm is getting in the way of your follow-through. You want your non-hitting arm to be farther in front, through the line of your shot.

    You're stepping out with the inside foot rather than the outside foot. This is constricting your swing, and preventing you from fully loading into a shot.

    Inside-out FH looks pretty good. You get weight into that shot, rather than your CC and running DTL shots.

    When you're on the run, your FH gets really scrunched up.

    BH:

    Contact point is too close to body. You're not getting adequate extension through the shot.

    Avoid switching between 1H BH and 2H BH for your topspin BH during the same rally. You want to get down the right stance and unit turn for your topspin BH. Switching between the two screws that up IMO.

    I think sometimes you're hitting the ball after almost all the weight has already transferred into the front foot. You'll want to improve your timing.

    As you initiate the takeback, you'll want to dip that front shoulder. Bringing the front arm "down" helps to do that and initiate a smile pattern for your takeback.

    Journey:
    This a tennis clip or Hyogen's sexy time music video :D ??? Anyway, don't stop believing dude!
     
    #2
  3. MarrratSafin

    MarrratSafin Hall of Fame

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    Hyo, can't really make out if you've improved or not compared to the last video I see but the video itself has certainly improved.:lol: My vote is you gonna win USO next year but hey, looks pretty good like 4.0 IMO. Nice, keep up the good work!:)
     
    #3
  4. chess9

    chess9 Hall of Fame

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    Forehand is 4.5 range.
    Backhand is 4.0 range.
    Music is 7.0.
    Production value is 6.0.
    :)

    -Robert
     
    #4
  5. drakulie

    drakulie Talk Tennis Guru

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    ^^^Good analysis.

    Hyogen, always enjoy your vids!! Great stuff, and thanks for sharing.

    Also, love you busting out with a one-hander. sweeettt!
     
    #5
  6. smoothtennis

    smoothtennis Hall of Fame

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    Good stuff from Tricky as always.

    On all the one handers, counter balance with the left arm more - not bad now, but can get better.

    Tricky hit the nail on the head with the crossover step comment on the CC Forehands. Do a lookup on something called the Step Out.

    I watched a few times, and can't see why, but your 2HBH at 3:53 is NICE. Much better timing on that shot than your other 2HBH's. You seem more relaxed on that shot for some reason.

    Great Vid Hyogen!
     
    #6
  7. hyogen

    hyogen Hall of Fame

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    haha, i really hope youtube doesn't take down the music...it's already been flagged for copywritten music infringement D:

    What you're saying about my forehand makes sense. I'll put my hand farther in front....and try to figure out what you're saying about my footwork (backwards)... Perhaps what it is, is that I'm hitting it mid-way between a closed stance and open stance? My core rotates pretty fast to where my feet shift midair...but I kinda see what you're saying about getting scrunched up.

    backhand...man, my 2hbh has never been better because I have been focusing on hitting the ball out in front! I'll work on that unit turn....dipping the front shoulder and arm is good advice that I can follow I think.

    haha, thanks. As for actual league play I dunno, so I very well may be a 3.0 in actual match play...there's almost nothing I hate more than playing dinkers/moonballers/pushers -_-. I do hold my serve pretty well, though...so maybe even I could win a couple games off higher ranked players! Should I assume that the music/production values are on a 7.0+ you don't need a rating cuz you're a pro scale? or a out of 10 scale! :shock:

    I tried to make my vids less boring. I was watching my boxing vid recently and I got bored even though there were some gems to be found throughout. I'll steer away from too much slow-motion stuff....in fact...........

    no one has commented on the part in the video where a ball hits my camera and the "oh ****!!!"! Gosh dang video skimmers :evil: I had the camera positioned to where it would fall into a basket of balls...but it could very well have fallen forward.

    Also, I'll never use a class 4 memory card again....most of these vids are a little choppy because it couldn't keep up with the camera (need a class 6 SD card).
     
    #7
  8. hyogen

    hyogen Hall of Fame

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    Ah yes, I will look that up. I've never really focused on my forehand before because it's always been pretty reliable for me--my backhand on the otherhand.... up until a couple years ago or so, it could have been the reason for me giving up on tennis...just very discouraging.

    the onehander.......I really enjoy them! I'm able to hit the down the line shot better, but it's still primitive. Only as of a couple weeks ago I seem to have somewhat figured out the mechanics of the one hander... the 95 square inch head seems to have helped as well on the k6.1 team. Seems more solid and less "play".

    I just looked at that 3:53 backhand and I agree...it didn't seem forced at all. I really like the way my arms/hands followed through for that shot....looked a little Agassi-like or something... *sniff/tear*

    I think in my other backhands I'm following through not as close to my head on the right side...what do you think?
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2009
    #8
  9. smoothtennis

    smoothtennis Hall of Fame

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    Hyo said:
    Go watch your vid again on the forehands, and forget looking at the stroke. Watch your feet. After you check step, and immediately see the ball is coming to your forehand side, you cross your left foot over your right foot to start moving to the ball. That is a crossover step.

    You ideally want to use what is called a step out step. When you see the ball going to your forehand, you immediately 'step-out' with your RIGHT foot towards the ball. It works wonders on more efficient footwork to the forehand. And it has to be drilled usually off court with shadow swings all week long before it feels natural on the court. Try it out.
     
    #9
  10. hyogen

    hyogen Hall of Fame

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    OK. will definitely work on this... so, i would be hitting the forehand with an open stance, then, right?
     
    #10
  11. smoothtennis

    smoothtennis Hall of Fame

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    Doesn't matter Hyogen. You are concerned with stepping out to the ball with that FIRST step- what you do when you get there is up to how much time you have. If you have no time, sure open stance is grand. If you have a little more time, you can go 3/4 or neutral if you like.

    The step out should give you a little more time for sure.
     
    #11
  12. tennisdad65

    tennisdad65 Hall of Fame

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    I like the idea of putting a rating poll with your video :)

    but it is tough to rate anyone unless you see them play ~4 games. you gotta see the serve and return, handling weird balls, midcourt bloopers etc.. before you can rate anyone.

    any matchplay videos?
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2009
    #12
  13. Storm_Kyori

    Storm_Kyori Hall of Fame

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    Nice vid Hyo and diggin' that Bloodsport music. Never knew the name of the song, but I liked it for some reason.

    Nice 1hander, I was hitting mine last night and some decent ones. Nice to see other 1hbh.
     
    #13
  14. pug

    pug Semi-Pro

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    Hydro,

    Thanks for sharing. I have been playing for 1 year and threads like this are great for learning. How long have you been playing? I am a couple hours from PDX maybe we can practice sometime.
     
    #14
  15. hyogen

    hyogen Hall of Fame

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    i've been playing for over 10 years...a little in jr. varsity in HS and bumped up to varsity...played for the intramural tennis club at Oregon State...their tennis program isn't very strong...in fact they don't even have a real team. only in the past couple years have I really started getting more consistent and decent especially on the backhand side and serve. Alas, one of the big obstacles I'll have to overcome is my fitness/weight gain. I need to lose about 30-40lbs...really -_- all of it has been gained within the 5 years I've been out of college, and sadly all within the first year and half.

    i've gotten foot problems (plantar fasciitis) due to my weight gain...and i'm sure all sorts of other issues related to it
     
    #15
  16. hyogen

    hyogen Hall of Fame

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    thanks man. It's called "On My Own" by Stan Bush. You should also download Stan Bush's "Fight to Survive"!!!!!!! Kumite, kumite!
     
    #16
  17. hyogen

    hyogen Hall of Fame

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    oh yeah, by the way pug I'm totally down to hit. may be tough in the rainy months ahead though. i tend to be pretty busy every day as well since i work 6 days a week
     
    #17
  18. ubermeyer

    ubermeyer Hall of Fame

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    where's the 1.0 option? :D

    no but seriously, you are definitely not a 2.5. You are probably a 4.0-4.5 or higher, if you can hit like that in matches and are consistent.
     
    #18
  19. moroni

    moroni Rookie

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    well i cant really say foe sure because i dunno the level of the player you are playing/ where the ball is landing and if you are consistent in match play

    but a rough estimate is 4.0 could be a little lower or a little higher
     
    #19
  20. tricky

    tricky Hall of Fame

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    For me, footwork is the most important aspect of stroke production, because it's the foundation for the unit turn. Or, rather, bad footwork is the biggest reason why strokes don't progress. Also, if you have strong footwork, you'll also adjust your stances according to the shot and path of incoming ball.

    One way to enforce footwork is to limit or eliminate your takeback (on both BH and FH wings) while practicing strokes. If your footwork is bad, you'll struggle. If the footwork is good, your contact point will be identical to the one were you to use a full takeback, and you won't have an issue with timing or overrotation.

    If you're looking for something more concrete, you can try the following. This is somewhat like Revolutionary Tennis:

    When practicing, make a commitment to always move forward or into court, even if you can't get to the ball. You may have to start a bit farther back from the baseline. After the split step, you follow these rules:

    1) If the ball is to your right, step out with the right foot.
    2) If the ball is to your left, step out with the left foot.

    That's it. But you'll find that instinctively, you'll want to cross over with other foot. That's something you'll need to work on. When you get this down, you'll notice faster and "quieter" feet as you move. More importantly, you'll notice changes in both your FH and BHs, and that you're now tracking the incoming ball with the outside foot.

    Once you get that down, then you can work on more complex footwork to move not only into court, but truly side-to-side or backwards.
     
    #20
  21. hyogen

    hyogen Hall of Fame

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    hmmm i see.... so if you step out with your right foot for the ball that is to my right..... do you push off with your left foot? make a big step or just normal fast steps in the direction of the ball?
     
    #21
  22. user92626

    user92626 Legend

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    Why is it called "step out"? Shouldn't it be called "step in" since you're actually stepping in to the shot?
     
    #22
  23. hyogen

    hyogen Hall of Fame

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    it's more of a side step right? or do you turn your body and step it out?
     
    #23
  24. tricky

    tricky Hall of Fame

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    When you step out, you lift with that foot and then step out. You don't deliberately push off with the opposite foot (there is weight transfer, yes, but to deliberately push off with the opposite foot means to transfer the weight onto that foot and then push off) when you move into court. That's one of the things you gotta unlearn.

    Exactly. And that's the thing. When you step out, you also have to turn your hip and torso a little bit in order to do this. It's not necessarily a side step (though it can be.)

    Another rule of thumb -- though this mostly applies when moving into court -- is that you want your trunk to be "open" to the net at all times. This will accomplish the same thing. If you crossover, your torso will turn too much. If you push off with the opposite foot, you'll notice your torso will again turn away too much as you move to the ball.

    Basically, you want to get to a point where you're comfortable tracking the ball with the outside foot, getting used to how the weight transfer and how the muscles should be used. Then you can incorporate all the other steps and more complex footwork patterns.

    This fundamentally changes people's stroke production for most people. Because the weight transfer is usually not correct for most people when they pivot during the unit turn, they kinda lock out their hips. Hip rotation is not what most people think it is. What you see with the hips turning in a stroke is more indicative of the load on torso rotation. The actual hip rotation is the weight transfer. So, when you execute the step-out wrong, you're actually no longer using your legs for power. Even if you push off or try sit and lift, you're only passively contributing to power. Moreover, this locking of the hips throws out your torso alignment. Most people are accustomed to treating their torso as a swivel-on-a-hip. Especially on the backhand side. But this is not correct (and unfortunately, the modern racquet and string technology is that you can get away with hitting this way without realizing that you're not loading properly.) The step out takes that away, so it may feel awkward at first. But you'll notice that you have (much) more weight into your shot, that you're better aligned, and that you no longer arm swings.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2009
    #24
  25. boojay

    boojay Hall of Fame

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    Awesome vid!!!!

    off topic, but that facility looks amazing. where is it?
     
    #25
  26. hyogen

    hyogen Hall of Fame

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    thanks do u have any new vids? my onehander isnt up to your (federer) level

    yeah its probably the nicest club in oregon ... west hills racquet club. the courts are nice and soft too... easy on the knees.

    im on my phone sry for no caps or punctuation
     
    #26
  27. samster

    samster Legend

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    Nice video! You are a better player than I. Based on the video, I conservatively estimate you are a 4.0.
     
    #27
  28. samster

    samster Legend

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    Hyo, you are a power player who feeds off pace. If I were to ever to play you, I would give you very little pace to work with. ;)
     
    #28
  29. boojay

    boojay Hall of Fame

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    Hah, hardly.

    Welp, if I move to Vancouver (BC), I'll make sure to make a few trips down south.
     
    #29
  30. armsty

    armsty Hall of Fame

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    These guys have probably covered it but turn side on for your forehand! :p
     
    #30
  31. xFullCourtTenniSx

    xFullCourtTenniSx Hall of Fame

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    Ugh... Sorry. The random stops and skips bugged me way too much to even go father than 30 seconds into the real hitting. Your footwork on the run/move seems suspect and your ability to handle low balls seems to be rather weak (as a result). That's just from a glance. I could be wrong.

    I'd guess 4.0 overall. Not bad. Put up a better video and I'll give you a better response.
     
    #31
  32. hyogen

    hyogen Hall of Fame

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    hmmm random stops and skips in the video or my footwork? the skips and stops are from using a sd memory card that isnt fast enough. (class 4 instead of 6) i higly regret that my class 6 one was full
     
    #32
  33. LanEvo

    LanEvo Hall of Fame

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    ur partner must be good, bc he can do everything with u to keep the rally
     
    #33
  34. JHBKLYN

    JHBKLYN Rookie

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    You have very good looking strokes. But due to your weight and foot problem, you will have trouble winning against top USTA rated 3.5 guys. They would drop shot you and make you run till your foot really hurts! :)
     
    #34
  35. hyogen

    hyogen Hall of Fame

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    Absolutely. I could visit u there also. and yes, you have a federesque one hand backhand. it's a thing of beauty
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2009
    #35
  36. hyogen

    hyogen Hall of Fame

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    thank you for compliment. i don't doubt you here...i gotta get myself into the boxing gym again..starting tomorrow.. but then again i've been known to beat down on 0.5 NTRP players with a ping pong paddle! i kid i kid -_-
     
    #36
  37. hyogen

    hyogen Hall of Fame

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    yeah, he hits with a lot of pace and is quick on the court. usually hits very hard, low bouncing, penetrating shots. he happens to use a little more powerful racquet like the babolat Z drive or Dunlop 500 I think..
     
    #37
  38. hyogen

    hyogen Hall of Fame

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    hehe, i have a friend I play with that I sometimes get frustrated at for giving me drop shots while we're trying to rally.

    it's too bad more of us didn't live closer so we could hit.. i'm actually playing with circusmouse in a couple weeks. I've played with LuckyR a couple times. There was another guy, but I think he sorta disappeared from these boards.
     
    #38
  39. Nellie

    Nellie Hall of Fame

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    To my eye, when you are closed on either side, you would be better if your back foot stepped through to shift the weight forward and through the shot. On several shots, you end up arming the ball as you shift forward, run out of room and end up awkwardly wristing the shot without any torso rotation (which is prevented by your feet being locked in place as your body rotates).
     
    #39
  40. pondus

    pondus Rookie

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    How do you track an incoming ball with a foot?! I'm not trying to be a smart ass, but I'm very curious to understand more about footwork; perhaps I lack context, or you perhaps didn't explain accurately.
     
    #40
  41. pondus

    pondus Rookie

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    This sounds totally fascinating and very important, but I'm having a hard time picturing this so I can apply it to my process of learning the fundamentals. Do you know of a book or a video where I can learn more about this particular subject?
     
    #41
  42. tricky

    tricky Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, I didn't explain this properly. Out of the split step, if you're moving into the court, you step out with the foot closest to the estimated strike point of ball. Then, as you follow that ball, you have to be aware of the angle of the incoming ball and adjust your movement as such. Of course, most people instinctively do this, but they're doing it with the wrong foot (thus causing crossover steps.) They're "tracking" or following the ball with the wrong foot. That in turn screws up the unit turn and leads to a "swivel swing." This is the situation where the hips are locked out or constricted, the trunk rotates away from the line of the shot, and where the swing is mostly a product of "arming."

    Revolutionary Tennis kinda teaches a version of this. If you look at the first three "Steps", it kinda approaches this.

    You can also think of footwork -- generally speaking -- in terms of throwing footballs. When you aim, you aim with the feet, and your stance adjust according to the angle of your throw. When you prepare the throw, the step out is (ideally) part of the preparation. When you drop back, notice how you never cross over with the feet. And so on. If you try to do with a football throw what many people do with their feet in tennis, you'll notice the same kind of swivel, which feels very unnatural.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2009
    #42

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