Hypothetical regarding Djokovic and Murray and changing expectations

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by PhrygianDominant, Jan 11, 2013.

  1. PhrygianDominant

    PhrygianDominant Hall of Fame

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    Before Djokovic's 2011, our opinions of him and our expectations were wildly less than they are today. What, if anything, would it take to change our expectations of Murray, short of a similar 2013?
     
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  2. magnut

    magnut Hall of Fame

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    Well since Nadal may be done, Fed is on the downslide, and Djokavic has still not recovered from his 2011 run, and the rest of the field is pretty weak....I would say he needs to win all four majors this year before he will have everyones respect.

    Tennis is in a pretty sad state right now. Its become pretty shallow and the depth is not really that great.
     
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  3. PhrygianDominant

    PhrygianDominant Hall of Fame

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    I for one, am warming to Fed's role as universally loved (with the exception of *******s) elder statesman. He may not be in his prime, but he's good enough and smart enough to capitalize on every opportunity the others present to him.

    Do you reallly think Djokovic is recovering from 2011? I thought the rest of the field simply upped their collective game, as a lot of Djokovic's victorys in 2011 came down to the wire, and Djokovic won by small margins (saved match points, came back from break down in a 5th set, etc...).

    Nadal being out does weaken the field substantially, so I agree with you there, but reorganization of the top has been long overdue, and the effects of Nadal's playing style on his health was foreseen by many. I am sure he will be back, but perhaps not in 2010 form.

    Back on topic, what does Murray need to do to get the dialogue regarding his results to sound more like the dialogue surrounding Djokovic and a fit Nadal?
     
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  4. PhrygianDominant

    PhrygianDominant Hall of Fame

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    What I mean is, what would need to occur for the Tennis community to start talking about Murray like he is Top dog, rather than a permanent underdog? Or has it already occured/ is occuring now?

    The classic and obvious answer I think is, win a bunch of slams...

    maybe this topic doesn't merit such a verbose thread...
     
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  5. Prisoner of Birth

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    If he wins the AO beating Federer and Djokovic back-to-back, he'll become the top dog in my mind.
     
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  6. batz

    batz G.O.A.T.

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    Not a bunch, "just" the next 2.

    If Murray wins the AO the dynamic will change a little bit. If he were to back that up by somehow winning RG (let's imagine Rafa doesn't make it and Murray plays at or beyond his 2011 clay levels) - then he'd go from perennial underdog to going for the Andy Slam at Wimbledon.

    That's what it would take.
     
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  7. Prisoner of Birth

    Prisoner of Birth Banned

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    I don't think he needs to win the French Open. Just the semis will do. It's always been his weakest Slam and not even Federer managed to win his worst Slam in his best years. A win at the AO and a decent showing at the FO will mean he goes into Wimbledon as the favorite (considering he'll be holding 2 Slams and the fact that he made the finals last year and won the Olympic Gold). That's enough to be considered the top dog.
     
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  8. Cosmic_Colin

    Cosmic_Colin Professional

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    At least two of the following:

    1) Beat Djokovic at the AO
    2) Beat Nadal at the FO
    3) Bear Federer at Wimbledon
    4) Be at least tied, if not ahead, for slams won this year
    5) In this calendar year, have a winning H2H against top players, overall
     
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  9. Tony48

    Tony48 Legend

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    Win the Australian Open and make at least the 4th round in the vast majority of his tournaments.
     
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  10. Prisoner of Birth

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    Say he does (3) and (5) but doesn't win any Slam. What then?
     
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  11. Cosmic_Colin

    Cosmic_Colin Professional

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    That would be a strange situation. To beat Fed at Wimbledon, he'd have to at least reach the final, since Fed isn't dropping below #4.

    Having beaten his conqueror from last year on his strongest surface, and if he lead Djokovic and Federer in H2H for the year, then he would certainly give off a 'top dog' vibe, even if the rankings and slam count didn't put him at #1.

    Say Djokovic wins AO, then Fed or Ferrer wins the French... if Murray has reached the Final of Wimbledon and had been beating these guys all year, he'd have to be the favourite or at least intimidating to the other players going into the US open.

    Should probably have made #5 'at slams', though. He hasn't had any problems beating the top two at smaller events before now.
     
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  12. Fiji

    Fiji Legend

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    Murray needs to:

    Win AO
    SF at RG
    Win Wimbledon
    Final at the USO

    Then he will be considered a top dog.
     
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