I am begining to think my tennis elbow will never heal completely

Discussion in 'Health & Fitness' started by jimanuel12, May 4, 2010.

  1. jimanuel12

    jimanuel12 Semi-Pro

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    i know that most of you have heard of this, but i have had tennis elbow for almost a year.
    some people say that once you hurt the arm or elbow bad, it is never the same, i am begining to believe that is the case with me.
    i am using the flexbar and it does help. i played the first few times without any or very little pain at all.
    then as my matches grew longer and longer, the pain starts to come back, not as bad as it was to begin with but enough to make me wonder if it will ever heal.
    i am not sure that the arm will ever heal without surgery.
    i do not want to have the surgery unless it is necessary, will put it off as long as possible.
    has anyone else had TE this long and does it ever go away?
     
    #1
  2. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    Have you visited this site?

    http://www.tennis-elbow-treatments.com/pages/tennis_elbow_injury.php

    Here is a gizmo that promises relief.

    "Tenease is the only device specifically developed for Tennis Elbow which is registered with the FDA and the MHRA (Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Authority)."

    http://us.tenease.com/

    This was developed by a surgeon. He has a free 10-page down-loadable guide:

    http://tenease.com/pub/tennis-elbow-download

    By the way, have you asked a coach to evaluate your stroke technique? He could perhaps identify what is causing your tennis elbow and help you to eliminate your problem at the source.

    You do know the definition of insanity, right?
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2010
    #2
  3. Chris Rizutto

    Chris Rizutto Banned

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    Well if all that device does is vibrate just get your massager out and put it on your elbow.
     
    #3
  4. Slazenger07

    Slazenger07 Banned

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    Use Penetrex Cream...its awesome, Ive had chronic T.E. for a couple years now, I have used Penetrex 3-4 times a day for two weeks and it feels so good I actually played for a little while without my elbow brace the other day, which I havent been able to do in forever.
     
    #4
  5. jimanuel12

    jimanuel12 Semi-Pro

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    does it just mask the pain or does it really work to heal?
    i have tried cortizone shots (2), electronic thereay, flexbars and nothing has made the pain go away 100%.
    the flexbar seems to have helped more than anything else but not cured by no means.
    the arm has never been the same since i hurt it last year.
    can i order this online or can i get it at a drugstore?
     
    #5
  6. rommil

    rommil Legend

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    Use Yonex rackets....oh wait I do and I still got TE twice.
     
    #6
  7. Slazenger07

    Slazenger07 Banned

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    It heals tendon damage. I commented on another thread where someone told you all it does is mask the pain, this is just an assumption and not a fact. The fact is it will repair tendon damage, Im sure you'll feel a big difference within a couple weeks, I know I am. Remember to use it 3-4 times a day, rub it in throughly. I ordered mine online, just do a google search, it was about $20.

    Give it a try man!
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2010
    #7
  8. kiteboard

    kiteboard Hall of Fame

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    Use the tenex wrist impact absorber as a preventive measure. Flex bar works. Use a flexy stick with gut mains.
     
    #8
  9. jimanuel12

    jimanuel12 Semi-Pro

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    i have another thread on this also, and one poster said that it had helped him also. he said nothing he had tried in the past worked until he tried the cream.
    what the heck, i have already spent more than $20.00 on creams and elbow braces.
    will give it a try and let you know how it works for me.
    thanks
     
    #9
  10. jimanuel12

    jimanuel12 Semi-Pro

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    i ordered a jar today, will let you know how it works for me.
    i am a skeptic, but will give it a try and see.
     
    #10
  11. tennisdad65

    tennisdad65 Hall of Fame

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    whats your setup like? racquet? String? tension?
    hopefully, it is not a stiff (RA>63) racquet with poly strung at 60+ lbs :)

    I can play 3 hrs a day, 5-6 days a week without any problem, with a flexible racquet (RA<60) . With a stiff racquet, my elbow is sore the next day..
     
    #11
  12. kiteboard

    kiteboard Hall of Fame

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    Listen to this guy.
     
    #12
  13. JT_2eighty

    JT_2eighty Hall of Fame

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    Really? Hmm, I'm very curious to hear your results jimanuel!

    On a related note, is it possible to even "cure" TE completely? I was under the impression that once you really have it, it will never *fully* go away (aside from surgery)?
     
    #13
  14. jimanuel12

    jimanuel12 Semi-Pro

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    i play with a fischer 105, set up with multifilament 16G at 55lbs.
    the flex rating for this racket is 53.
    my arm has never been the same since i hurt it last year but also my work requires me to be on the computer alot, so that may be to blame too.
    before i hurt the arm, i could play constantly with little or pain, just some shoulder pain sometimes but nothing like this.
    this is the worst i have ever hurt my arm, nothing compares to it.
    i have only hurt my arm one time and that was years ago. after i quit playing for the winter, it healed on it's own and i never had a problem again until last year.
    will see how the cream works, i am a sketic about the cream but will see.
     
    #14
  15. JT_2eighty

    JT_2eighty Hall of Fame

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    You know, I also sit at a computer much of the day for work. I've moved my mouse to my non-dominant hand (left), as all that little mouse clicking and movement was affecting my wrist and elbow, and I try to do as much with my left hand as possible. Some days I'll wear an elbow brace during the day, just to keep all them muscles and tendons in place. Otherwise, extended time off tennis may just be the last resort, as difficult it may be.
     
    #15
  16. jrod

    jrod Hall of Fame

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    A topical cream that heals tendon damage? How in the hell does it do this exactly? Please explain, providing as much scientifically based data as possible. I'm not interested in anecdotal nonsense.
     
    #16
  17. jimanuel12

    jimanuel12 Semi-Pro

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    that may be true, i have also moved my mouse to my left hand and after i hurt the arm last year, i took almost the entire year off.
    i did not hit a tennis ball for 7 months and still the pain is there.
    may have to have surgery, but really hope not.
     
    #17
  18. tennisdad65

    tennisdad65 Hall of Fame

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    I had TE for 3-4 months and felt it would never go away..I got rid of it by:
    1) Moving to full natural gut at low tensions (40-45 lbs)
    2) Flexible racquet (copper ace is about 50 RA, similar to OPs Fisher)
    3) Lots of hard deep massage on the elbow. It hurts like hell the first couple of weeks to do it. I think this one thing (massage) really helped to get rid of my TE.
     
    #18
  19. JT_2eighty

    JT_2eighty Hall of Fame

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    Good points. I'd vouch for point #1 as well, since Jimanuel is still at 55 lbs, which although seems "mid-range", I wouldn't be surprised if you can drop it a good 10 lbs and just adjust your game to fit. With a flexy racquet one can go quite lower than "standard" tension ranges and still not have the "super-trampoline" you may expect 40lbs tension ranges to have.

    That, and maybe even switch to Maxim Touch if you don't want gut, since that is one of THE softest multis out there that TE sufferers swear by. Also, if you aren't already using one of those "band-it" braces or something similar, that really does help too... as well as icing after matches. Which also you already probably know and are doing, but anyhow, good luck man!
     
    #19
  20. jimanuel12

    jimanuel12 Semi-Pro

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    thanks, it seems like i have tried everything i can think of. so far, this is what i have tried:

    2 cortizone shots
    deep massages for weeks and weeks
    electric therapy
    chicropator
    all kinds of creams
    flex bar exercises
    hand exercises
    no tennis for 7 months
    arm bands

    still not 100% -maybe never
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2010
    #20
  21. Slazenger07

    Slazenger07 Banned

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    From their website: The active ingredients in Penetrex, in conjunction with its patent pending emulsification process, reduces the inflammation of muscles, nerves, ligaments & tendons. Penetrex also aids in promoting healthy blood circulation in the affected area and improves critical nerve function.

    -Active Ingredients-
    Pyridoxine (Vitamin B6):
    Vitamin B6, also called pyridoxine, helps maintain the balance of sodium and potassium which regulate body fluids and promote normal functioning of the nerves. Vitamin B6 deficiency has long been associated with various symptomatologies including shoulder and leg pain, swollen hands, "tennis elbow," all forms of arthritis, and even carpal tunnel syndrome.

    MSM (methylsulfonylmethane):
    Originally brought to prominence by Dr. Stanley Jacob, MSM is a relatively new dietary supplement form of sulfur that is found in our living tissues. MSM supports healthy connective tissues like tendons, ligaments, and muscle.

    Cetyl Myristoleate:
    CMO (Cetyl Myristoleate) was discovered in 1972 by Harry W. Diehl, Ph.D., a researcher at the National Institutes of Health. At the time, Dr. Diehl was responsible for testing anti-inflammatory drugs on lab animals. In order for him to test the drugs, he first had to artificially induce arthritis in the animals by injecting a heat-killed bacterium called Freund’s adjuvant.

    Choline is a lipotropic and member of the B complex vitamin family and is a component of phospholipids and acetylcholine. It is very beneficial for disorders of the nervous system. Choline is essential for the health of the myelin sheaths of the nerves which are the principal component of nerve fibers.

    Arnica is a botanical which has been used for centuries, primarily in Europe. There are over 100 drug products made from this plant. The active components in Arnica are sesquiterpene lactones, which are known for their anti-inflammatory and pain reduction properties.

    Boswellia Serrata:
    Boswellia Serrata is an herb that has a long tradition of therapeutic use, especially in India (Ayurvedic medicine). This plant is native to Africa and Asia. The part of the plant that is used therapeutically is the resin from the bark. The boswellic acids in this bark resin are thought to be responsible for the herb's anti-inflammatory and anti-arthritic activities.
     
    #21
  22. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    I noticed that your list did not include ice or, better yet, ice massage. Did laying off tennis for 7 months have no impact? Did the pain/inflammation not subside for a while? If not, perhaps something else you are doing is a significant contributor to your TE.

    I'll present more ideas/info in my next post.
     
    #22
  23. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    I've not tried the cream and don't know how well it actually works but, perhaps along with the active ingredients Slaz has listed above, the transdermal delivery system is a significant factor in the effectiveness of the product (if, indeed, it is effective). Such a delivery system would allow those ingredients to penetrate more than just the upper epidermal levels -- deeper into the tissue and even, possibly, into the bloodstream. It could be marketing hype but, on the other hand, there might actually be something to it.
     
    #23
  24. badmice2

    badmice2 Rookie

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    Is it inside or outside that you're having it?

    I had it pretty bad one time where could barely hold a fork. What really helped (and i didnt use pain med, cream, all that junk) was exercise, ice, and heat. I think the flexbar exercises are ok, but these ones with the ribbon http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVZW5oAI90Q are much better and pin points the area better.

    You'll have to be religious with the exercises. I was doing it every moment i had (in the car, watching tv, etc). In between you not only need to ice it, but **IMPORTANT POINT*** - apply heat to the trouble area to keep it loose (heat pad, etc). It'll take at least 2 months of religious strength exercise to get ride of it all.
     
    #24
  25. El Diablo

    El Diablo Hall of Fame

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    Having dissected cadavers, I'm in a position to assure you that nothing you rub into your skin will directly reach a tendon. Too much in the way, including capillaries that will usually absorb the stuff. There's alot of misery out there and people will believe almost anything.
     
    #25
  26. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    If you could, create a new thread about your experience with it.
     
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  27. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    Yes, repetitive stress (computer keyboarding) can inflame TE.
     
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  28. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    But then this would lend credence to my suggestion that the transdermal delivery system could possibly get the active ingredients into the bloodstream. Nicotine as well as other drugs and substances are introduced into the body via transdermal patches. These patches are often used to meter/control the amount of drug/substance that gets into the bloodstream. However, it would appear, they are also used to "promotes healing to an injured area of the body".
    .
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2010
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  29. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    jimanuel12, if you answer the questions that I've posed here, I might be able to provide more feedback/suggestions.
     
    #29
  30. jimanuel12

    jimanuel12 Semi-Pro

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    sorry, i left out ice, yes, i do use ice.
    i have not used the heat, my doctor recommened the ice and when i asked about heat, he said the ice is better.
    my TE is better than it was last year when i first hurt it, but it is in no way back to 100%.
    when i first started to play this year, it did not hurt at all. then the more i played, the two long matches, it started again.
    even with the fischer flexie racket, it still hurts.
    i am about at my wits end, considering seeing a surgeron if it does not improve considerably over the next few months.
    any suggestions you have is greatly appreciated.
    thanks.
     
    #30
  31. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    This is extreme I realize, but one guy down at our club took a year off and played left handed with some of the lower level players. Eventually it healed and he has been playing his normal righty for years without problems.
     
    #31
  32. jimanuel12

    jimanuel12 Semi-Pro

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    i have seen several of your posts on here concerning TE. do you still have trouble with yours also?
    i have considered not playing at all for a year, but i really hate to do that, tennis is the only game i have loved all these years and continue to play.
    i am too old for basketball and other sports.
    but if it is that or surgery, then i will take a year off.
     
    #32
  33. jimanuel12

    jimanuel12 Semi-Pro

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    i have another thread on here "penetrex - does this stuff really work?"
    i will post on that one when i receive the jar of cream and see what happens.
    i am hoping for the best but i am a skeptic.
    i hope the cream makes a believer out of me, if it is that good, then i may be a spokes person for them for free (LOL).
     
    #33
  34. larry10s

    larry10s Hall of Fame

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    platelet rich plasma injection , and cold laser therapy are 2 modalities non surgical you could look into
     
    #34
  35. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    I have GE and it is just about gone. I played left handed in high school to give myself a challenge against some of the lower seeds on the team. Since I got GE, I've been playing ping pong left handed too. Fortunately, I'm fairly ambidextrous. I had considered playing lefty tennis for a while but opted not to because I no longer have the time outside of work to dedicate time to improving.
     
    #35
  36. Fedace

    Fedace Banned

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    I had it and it was pretty bad. but when i rested it for about 2 month, it got much better. so i started play tennis again. and it is not that bad now, but one thing is for sure, i have to wear the Bauerfiend elbow brace ,, no matter what. and as long as i wear it, it isn't that bad. and it doesn't seem to get worse.
     
    #36
  37. Fedace

    Fedace Banned

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    Does this work for Plantar Fascitis as well ????? in your foot. and how many Plasma injections do you have to get ?
     
    #37
  38. jatnut

    jatnut Rookie

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    Hey Jim when you sit make sure that your posture is good and try to set your monitor so that you are not really bending your neck somewhat down. About a year or so I had a bad case of TE and blamed it on my racquets, form etc as it flared up when I was trying to switch to a OHBH. However after switching racquets, creams, brace etc the thing would just not go away. Eventually I went to this Naturo / Chiro type doc who did said the problem was in my neck. He told me to elevate my monitor and make sure that my lower back was straight while sitting at the monitor (Im at it for at least 7 hrs a day) and he did like 4 weeks of manipulation and the pain went. At first I thought he was a quack because he said it was nerve related and I knew I first felt it when I hit like 300 OHBH from my ball machine but hey it worked. Now when I slouch or sit incorrectly I feel as if its coming back but as soon as I correct my position and get a neck massage Im good to go. Also the PK5G is like an arm massage so I would suggest you get one.

    Hope you get better soon.

    Peace
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2010
    #38
  39. ProgressoR

    ProgressoR Hall of Fame

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    i have had mild TE for 2-3 months, it has settled down a lot, but serving seems to make it worse so i am laying off serving, just rallying and hitting. I did all the ice, heat, stretching, doing exercises now to strenghten. But the biggest leap was getting a hand, elbow and shoulder massage from a reflexologist, that helped a lot, i will arrange another soon. And switching mouse to left hand. But i still feel it, the elbow. And I know it started hitting 200 balls a day learning 1hBH with new poly strings. Now i use flexy racket with syn gut and lowish tension, very nice on the arm. But pain is still there, a little.

    Let us know if that cream works....
     
    #39
  40. curvefan

    curvefan New User

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    I don't know if you use a one handed backhand when you play, but if you can learn to use a two hander that of course would help also.

    My TE was really bad for a long time and I don't think it will ever fully go away.

    I thought that I would need surgery also, but after a long rehab with no playing, I finally am back in the game.

    I played with the two handed backhand which really helped, but I could never get comfortable with it, so I switched back to the one handed backhand and so far so good.

    Ice is definitely your friend.

    My regimen:

    Prince Original Graphite OS with multifilament strings at around 55#.

    Neoprene elbow sleeve with an aircast elbow strap over top of sleeve.

    At least one days rest between matches. I'm 55!

    Advil and lots of ice after playing.

    So far the TE is in check, but if I cheat and try to play two days in a row, I can feel it trying to creep back.

    I am no doc, but if you do the rehab and follow some of the good advice in this thread, you may be able to avoid surgery.

    Good luck.........................
     
    #40
  41. jimanuel12

    jimanuel12 Semi-Pro

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    thanks for the advice, i am an older player (61) and have done all the things you mentioned.

    ice after playing
    use a elbow brace during play but i do not have the Neoprene elbow sleeve with an aircast elbow strap over top of sleeve.
    i have just the elbow brace that goes around the arm.
    where can i get one of the neoprene ones you mentioned?

    i am also trying the penetrex cream that allot of people rave about, will see how it works too.
     
    #41
  42. mikeler

    mikeler G.O.A.T.

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    ^^^ Your local pharmacy should have the neoprene sleeves.
     
    #42
  43. curvefan

    curvefan New User

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    Here's one at Amazon.

    http://www.amazon.com/Captain-Neoprene-Elbow-Sleeve-size/dp/B001PT71Q6

    I really don't know how much the neoprene sleeve helps.

    I guess I use it to keep the elbow warm and it also offers some compression.

    The aircast strap over top is just added compression and so far this set up is working for me.

    Let us know how the cream works.
     
    #43
  44. jimanuel12

    jimanuel12 Semi-Pro

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    thanks, i will look into that sleeve.
    i am using the penetrex cream now, for about 3 days, can't tell too much difference, but it may be too soon.
    will let you know.
     
    #44
  45. jimanuel12

    jimanuel12 Semi-Pro

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    thanks - will look into that as well
     
    #45
  46. jimanuel12

    jimanuel12 Semi-Pro

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    i meant to add:

    i switched to a fischer pro 105, strung with multifilament at 55lbs.
    i also use a two hand backhand.
    the wilson hammer did me in, i should have known better than to switch to a heavy head light weight racket, but the damage is already done.
    it may never be the same again but will keep trying everything i can to avoid the surgery. i do not want to have the surgery.
     
    #46
  47. JackB1

    JackB1 G.O.A.T.

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    They do sell neoprene sleeves with a built in "TE" band. Here is one:
    http://cgi.*e*bay.com/LP-Tennis-Elb...tem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35a8e7a829
    I like using the sleeve to warm up because it provides compression and warmth to a cold elbow. But I prefer just a "Band-It" by itself for most of the time.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2010
    #47
  48. jimanuel12

    jimanuel12 Semi-Pro

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    i found one this morning on the net, have already ordered it.
    should be to my home by friday, thanks.
     
    #48
  49. cprox

    cprox New User

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    tennis elbow

    I tried everything to resolve my tennis elbow pain: wraps, ice, rubs, physical therapy (including deep massage), "elbow friendly" racquet strung at low tension with gut, even 6 months off. Finally, I got an MRI and I had a 90% tear in my extensor tendon which required surgery to repair. After another 6 months off for rehab I'm playing 5 days per week with a ProKennex PSE 20 strung with Babolat 17 gauge gut at 53... totally pain free. So, there can be a resolution to elbow pain if you get the right diagnosis. GOOD LUCK!
     
    #49
  50. ollinger

    ollinger Legend

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    cprox
    nice illustration of the danger of recommending remedies to people who haven't had a good diagnostic assessment, as goes on here all the time.
     
    #50

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