I am convinced that 1hbh is not suited for park tennis

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by luvforty, Apr 9, 2013.

  1. luvforty

    luvforty Banned

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    the pros do NOT take the ball on the rise... 1hb hits a falling ball, which means they stand 8 ft behind the baseline..

    can't do this in park tennis... recs just can't cover this much ground.. you stand 8ft behind you will see drop shots all day long.

    no 1hb can hit rising balls consistently standing 2ft behind the line, not the guys i have seen in real life, not the guys i have seen on TV.

    case closed.
     
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  2. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Let's pry the lid open just a bit.
    No "rec park" player can consistently hit deep to your backhand.
    YOU can do something about it, like hit to their backhand, or dropangle, shortangle, or change the equation.
    Someone once discovered a new way to hit a 1hbh....SLICE.
    Then someone invented the short volley stroke.
    Someone then invented the MOVING FORWARDS to backhand volley DTL.
    Since most 2hbh guys volley 1 handed, should we condemn 1hbh already?
     
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  3. magnut

    magnut Hall of Fame

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    Mine can. The only time I go 8 feet behind the baseline is to pick up balls. Simplify your technique and use body rotation a little more and its not that hard. It will also help you return serve off that side. It also helps if you are strong in the shoulders. If you have a girly mans body and rely on huge backswings it can be tough. Other than that dont let the ball play you. Work on your footwork and preperation.

    In short....watch Edberg.
     
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  4. magnut

    magnut Hall of Fame

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    A well struck one handed backhand is simply the most beautiful movement in all of sports. There is no movemnet like it. Its special only to tennis.
     
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  5. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Frisbee tossing, karate chop to the ribs, drawing a sword from your belt scabbard, hammer throwing, throwing stars, insulting backhand slap.
     
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  6. magnut

    magnut Hall of Fame

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    Those are some crazy examples. I never agreed with the frisbee thing. The sword from the belt scabbard is interesting though. I never though of that one. The rest eh? I have not thrown ninja starts in a while though. Maybe I should try it? But then what would I do with my Beretta?
     
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  7. Avles

    Avles Hall of Fame

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    I don't really see Almagro and Wawrinka standing 8 ft behind the baseline here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXCKvawrmuY

    Where they stand seems to depend on whether they are attacking or defending. And if taking the ball before it falls with the 1hbh is impossible, why does Almagro move in to return second serves from inside the baseline?

    Also, pro shots are often rising as they cross the baseline. Rec shots often are not. So pros will have to stand a lot further back to avoid taking the ball on the rise. Right?
     
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  8. JRstriker12

    JRstriker12 Hall of Fame

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    The pros don't take it on the rise with a one hander????

    Richard Gasquet hits a 103 mph backhand winner (2013 Sony Open)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bX6JPZQiu9Q

    He sure as hell hit that on the rise. Hit quite a few good backhands to stay in the point.

    At about 14 secs in Fed hits about 4 backhands on the rise, hugging the baseline and then hits a backhand winner:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzVUxvN49A0

    Beyond that, most rec park players can't consistently hit a penetrating ball that will pin you 8 ft behind the baseline.
     
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  9. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Noticed a trend lately with frisbee golf guys, lots are now throwing with a forehand motion, sidearmed, for a little more length. Some baskets are located over 130 yards, over water, and park benches.
    Beretta's make a lot of noise, 9's fast and penetrating, little stopping power. Ninja stars stop you in your tracks if one is embedded in your forehead.....:):)
     
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  10. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Good way to practice the short hop groundies. Hit the wall, hit it at the short hop. Use the power and redirect it.
     
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  11. magnut

    magnut Hall of Fame

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    LOL :) Yeah I got nailed in the forehead with a 9 a few weaks ago and just brushed it off....no big deal!
     
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  12. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    As you well know, a nine is a glorified .38, actually a .355.
    Lots of stories how 10+ rounds zipped thru people who continued to charge and shoot back, which is why the .45 auto was adopted over the .38. I was a .45 auto fan for 15 years, GoldCups, Comps, Commanders, LightweightCommanders, BehlertCommanders, Eagles, and a few other stainless variants.
    Few keep charging and shooting if ONE star, or arrow, is sticking out of your body parts.
    I"m a CZ-75 9 mil fan now. 15+1, 4 mags, in a shoulder harness. WWSilvertip 125 grain split points, my preferred load.
     
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  13. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    Sounds like an excuse from someone who tried to look cool, but couldn't pull it off.
     
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  14. JW10S

    JW10S Hall of Fame

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    You've never seen Haas, Gasquet, Almagro, Federer, Wawrinka, Robredo, Rochus, Blake, take a 1hb on the rise? Don't watch much pro tennis do you?
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2013
    #14
  15. WildVolley

    WildVolley Legend

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    If you can't hit a topspin 1hbh, just stand on the baseline and slice it back rec-style.
     
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  16. Roger Wawrinka

    Roger Wawrinka Professional

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    ^^ yes I have seen most of those players hit a 1hb on the rise!! Not sure what you are talking about. :confused:

    And yes I do watch a LOT of pro tennis.
     
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  17. magnut

    magnut Hall of Fame

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    Neat. I wont argue with you that the 45 is a better round. I actaully carry a plain old Makarov most of the time. I have never felt underarmed but I dont live in a bad area...yet. The way things are going though who knows. I am a big Beretta fan though. CZs are very nice as well. At least your not a Glock or nothing nut.

    Good call on the shoulder harness though. I use one as well. I find it really hard to hit a one handed backhand and move around the net with a waist carry. I tried ankle carry a few times but it seemed to throw my balance off when approaching on my slice. Shoulder harnesses with additional magazines seem to quiet down the upper body and the rig itself balances nicely both when moving forward or being stretched out wide. It just takes a little time to get used to the weight.
     
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  18. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    Most of them attack too much, that's not real tennis by today's standards. *sarcasm*

    Maybe that's why OP doesn't watch them?
     
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  19. JW10S

    JW10S Hall of Fame

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    ^^^RogerWawinka, um, I was quoting the OP who said pros don't do it...what are you talking about?
     
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  20. luvforty

    luvforty Banned

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    when I say not on the rise - I mean not as a meat/potato shot... as opposed to agassi style 2 ft behind the baseline, can't play that way with 1hb.

    and Lee, what is this, a gun show now?
     
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  21. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    That, and we all need to stop using polys because we don't swing nearly enough racquet head speed to see the benefits.
     
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  22. Cheetah

    Cheetah Hall of Fame

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    so now you're redefining on the rise as 'meat/potato'?
    please stop posting.
     
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  23. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    Why, not strong enough?
     
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  24. luvforty

    luvforty Banned

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    wow some poly user finally got it off his chest lol
     
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  25. boramiNYC

    boramiNYC Hall of Fame

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    my goodness, luv, the more you try to refrain from posting would do everyone and yourself more good.
     
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  26. luvforty

    luvforty Banned

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    takes longer to prepare, shot intrinsically not as stable as 2hb against rising balls.
     
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  27. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    I also happen to have a 1hander, learned it as a kid, been using it ever since, pulls level or even out hit ~equally skilled 2handers in backhand rallies.

    So I have no idea what you're talking about.
     
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  28. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    Meat and potatoes stroke. Just stop.
     
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  29. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    luvforty is correct, Gasquet often stays behind and takes it falling. Fed takes it earlier, but see what Nadal does to him.
     
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  30. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    Sounds like an excuse to me.
     
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  31. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    Exactly. Even the best of pros resort to slice which requires less preparation. In a 2 hander, you are facing the ball in front for a longer time, not looking at it at an angle.
     
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  32. magnut

    magnut Hall of Fame

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    I alwys look at two handed backhand players as one dimensional weaker players. Right from the warm up its not hard to figure out what they can and cant do. I start playing with a decent one handed player and I know baseline and even net exchanges could be interesting.
     
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  33. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    So you agree with dozu NO pro hits it closer than 8ft back? You are so clueless.
     
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  34. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    What are you going to say next? Eastern forehands are invalid because of today's spin-heavy game because everyone and their best friends use a Western grip? (even though eastern forehands are perfectly capable of hitting topspin too)
     
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  35. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    I just said Fed does not hit like that
     
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  36. luvforty

    luvforty Banned

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    if there is shot track data for this, I will bet that the average hit point of 1hbs is significantly further back than the 2hbs.

    which would not be a big deal, except that the recs have much slower foot speed to defend the drop shots and short junks.

    why is this so hard to understand. 1hb simply can NOT defend the baseline position as 2hbs do.
     
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  37. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    1hander has a more natural slice on the backhand side, not to mention better reach. So if anything, 1handers are better equipped to defend at the baseline:

    - Better reach
    - The better slice allows the player more time to get back on the court.

    What's next?
     
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  38. luvforty

    luvforty Banned

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    so arche3, why are you still calling me troll etc while you are the one cannot put up the goods... your bff is asking me to stop.. seems you need to stop first.
     
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  39. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    I saw this happening today. Father asked a 4.5 guy to play points with his junior daughter who has a tourney coming. She slams her 2 handed backhands like a robot, while he is all Federer-like and stylish, and misses half of his, and resorts to slicing and making loud noises as if it is an exception (while it is the rule). I was in the next court.
     
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  40. luvforty

    luvforty Banned

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    slice does not count here - once you resort to slice, you are already behind in a point.

    by the way - there is no reason for 1hb to have a more 'natural slice'... the only reason it's more natural is because the topspin drive got pounded into break down and you are now forced to slice a lot.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2013
    #40
  41. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    Yeah because when you chip and charge, you're behind in a point right? Stop talking.
     
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  42. luvforty

    luvforty Banned

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    oh, so you are sampras now, so playing 1h is giving your 'chip charge' a tremendous advantage than otherwise playing 2h.

    read title again - it's park tennis.. if you are park player, 1h or 2h makes ZERO difference to the chip charge.
     
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  43. arche3

    arche3 Banned

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    Maybe Suresh and luv40 should start their own forum? All vote! I vote yes.
     
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  44. JRstriker12

    JRstriker12 Hall of Fame

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    Funny, seems like its the two handed grinders that like to sit back 8 ft behind the baseline and hit the ball.

    Wawrinka pounding backhands on the rise, often inside the baseline: http://youtu.be/hXGLspOswvo
     
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  45. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    OP is actually demonstrating good troll form for others to follow.

    What happens when you can't do something?
    - Hail it as the wrong thing to do. Example provided here: can't hang on the baseline with a 1hander? It must be the wrong stroke!

    What happens when you start a pointless argument just to argue, only to lose by the end of the 1st page?
    - Spend the remaining pages insulting the members who are providing counter-arguments. Then accuse members for their inability to comprehend, when OP writes in broken English to begin with.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2013
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  46. gregor.b

    gregor.b Professional

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    FWIW, last time I checked ( no offense guys), most park and rec players that haven't had coaching or played comp or tourneys didn't know how to hold the racquet properly for most strokes.

    Makes it hard to hit a 1 hbh in any way shape or form.
     
    #46
  47. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    You have not played with one of my hitting partners he can hit a beautiful one handed backhand standing a foot behind the baseline. Even on a heavy deep top spin shot he will rip a one hander right off the rise.
     
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  48. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    A person can be convinced of whatever they please.
     
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  49. Avles

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    I think people do understand the point you are attempting to make.

    1. You assert that the 1hbh is ill-suited for hitting on the rise. This premise seems questionable, but hey, let's go ahead and grant it.

    2. You assert that pros with 1hbh generally stand 8 feet behind the baseline so they can hit the ball as it falls. This assertion appears to be inaccurate.

    3. From this questionable premise and this dubious observation, you conclude that park players should not use the 1hbh, because if they they stand 8 feet behind the baseline they won't be able to get to drop shots. This conclusion seemingly ignores the fact that park players will not need to stand 8 feet behind the baseline to catch balls at or after their apex, because they won't be facing ATP levels of topspin and pace.

    So even if we grant that assertions 1 and 2 are true (which they probably aren't), your conclusion is still totally faulty because it's based on the incorrect assumption that the incoming shots faced by rec players will be comparable to those faced by pro players.

    I feel like if you'd subjected your own reasoning to a modicum of scrutiny before hitting post you might have realized this yourself.

    Seriously, every now and then I see tennis being played at parks. I see quite a few 1hbhs. Somehow I don't see a lot of players getting driven 8 ft behind the baseline and then polished off with drop shots. Maybe I'm not going to the right parks... or maybe your idea is silly...
     
    #49
  50. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

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    Really? Then I assume you've never seen Federer play either in real life nor on TV? Because this is exactly what Federer has been doing for his entire career.
     
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