I am convinced that 1hbh is not suited for park tennis

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by luvforty, Apr 9, 2013.

  1. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    34,794
    Jimmy Arias confirmed the problems with the 1 hander yesterday. Before the Isner-Almagro match, he picked Isner, and one of the reasons was "Isner's hig-bouncing second serve to the 1 handed BH." Clearly shows that he thinks the 1 hander is a handicap in this situation.

    When pros like him and Navratilova who have seen everything say things like this, I think the point is clear.
     
  2. JRstriker12

    JRstriker12 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2006
    Messages:
    3,364
    A handicap that only got Almagro to the final of the tournament vs. quite a few two handers - on clay no less. Almagro also is 2-1 vs Isner.

    It's can be tough to return Isner's serve - period - one hander or two hander. It's going to be a bit harder with a one-hander, but handicap?
     
  3. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    34,794
    I would rather go with what Jimmy Arias says. He put that as the main reason he was picking Isner to win. And I am sure Arias is aware that Isner's serve is difficult for anyone to return, and that is why he was specific about mentioning the 1 hander issue.
     
  4. Avles

    Avles Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2009
    Messages:
    1,505
    Location:
    The Peak of Good Living
    Facing Isner on clay? I feel like we aren't really talking about park tennis anymore here..
     
  5. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    34,794
    It is a relative matter
     
  6. JRstriker12

    JRstriker12 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2006
    Messages:
    3,364
    Yes, but what does that prove? It's not as simple as he lost because he has a one handed backhand since Almagro has a 2-1 head to head vs Isner( once on grass - which I find surprising - and another win on clay.)

    While Isner may have been better on that day, how did Almagro get to the final or even beat Isner on other occasions if that one hander was a fatal handicap?

    What about Robredo's win over Anderson who's no slouch with the serve?

    At the pro level, that return may be a bit more difficult with a one-hander, but it's not as simple as the one hander is just going to lose.
     
  7. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    34,794
    Arias was asked this very question by the other commentator, and responded that Isner has been going for the high bouncing second serve more often in recent matches.
     
  8. JRstriker12

    JRstriker12 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2006
    Messages:
    3,364
    Only against one handers?
     
  9. The Meat

    The Meat Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2012
    Messages:
    1,998
    110-120mph 7 foot kicker at the park level? :)

    The highest serve I can see a lower level player hit is about 4 feet, maybe 5 with new balls and a very hot dry day. Not to mention it would be going 50mph max.

    You could just slice it back...
     
  10. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    34,794
    As I said it is relative. Instead of slicing it back, a good 2 hander would be able to attack it.
     
  11. Dimcorner

    Dimcorner Professional

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2012
    Messages:
    814
    That and how much more offensive can you get at the park level with a 2 hander when it kicks up over your head? What I have seen in my parks is just a bunt back or a looping block, you can do that with a one hander too.
     
  12. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2012
    Messages:
    1,954
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale, FL
    Obviously, the 1hbh is alive and well in park tennis. Case dismissed! :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2013
  13. Pickle9

    Pickle9 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2009
    Messages:
    635
    Location:
    New York
    omg this thread is awesome. i will consult the GTM when i get home.
     
  14. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    43,326
    That's caused by Isner's 6'11" height. If Almagro was the same height as Isner, he wouldn't have the same problem returning with his 1HBH. So the problem is not with his 1HBH, the problem is he's about a foot shorter than his opponent. BTW, Monaco had the same problem returning with his 2HBH playing against Isner in the semis.
     
  15. BreakPoint

    BreakPoint Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2004
    Messages:
    43,326
    Yeah, this is coming from someone who had one of the worst 1HBHs ever on the pro tour. No wonder he feels that the 1HBH is a weakness - it sure is for him!
     
  16. Lukhas

    Lukhas Legend

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2013
    Messages:
    6,443
    Location:
    France
    Federer defeated Isner at the Olympics last year in straights and one tie-break. And everybody know that while he has his moments (that wrist flick on the run), he's far from having the best one hander in the game.

    Of course, having a one hander is like having a panel on your head with "serve on my backhand please!" when you step in the court. You have to adapt, and practise better. I think the problem with ROS is that you need a partner (that's already not for everyone) who is a decent and consistent serve even if he/she doesn't hit big (and the other guys leave the party). It's harder to work than ground-strokes, for which any decent wall will do. Hence the problem with the one hander that doesn't really forgive bad placement, but I think it's more natural for one handers to hit slices... Unless your name is Fabrice Santoro.
     
  17. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    35,710
    And for doubles, don't forget McEnroe was top ranked, as was Hewitt (Bob), with 1hbh's and lots of slicing.
     
  18. arche3

    arche3 Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2009
    Messages:
    5,389
    What luv40 and Sureshs do not realise is that in rec park tennis nobody is hitting well enough to really expolit a 1hbh anyways. Just because luv40 and sureshs can't deal with hitting any 1hbh in the court does not mean other rec guys have issues with it. At least any more than rec 2hbhs.
     
  19. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    34,794
    Showing your age there, LeeD. No one cares about these guys any more.
     
  20. Doubles

    Doubles Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
    Messages:
    4,280
    Location:
    Approaching the net
    I care as it's relevant to the thread. Nice try though.
     
  21. JRstriker12

    JRstriker12 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2006
    Messages:
    3,364
    McEnroe may be old but even at his age, his game holds up surprisingly well against players from a more modern era with two handers (Courier, Chang, Agassi) on the "seniors" tour.
     
  22. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    34,794
    That is because of his talent. Others cannot play like him with that style.
     
  23. arche3

    arche3 Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2009
    Messages:
    5,389
    Well the original premise by banned member luv40 formerly banned as dozu was that rec players should not hit a 1hbh. And the arguments used as examples was pro 1hbhs. This doesn't make sense. We are not pros.

    Fact is rec guys can win just bunting balls back half the time. Original idea is absurd and anyone who agrees is also misinformed.

    Case closed.
     
  24. JRstriker12

    JRstriker12 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2006
    Messages:
    3,364
    The others aren't slouches either. Still his older style one hander still holds up enough to keep him in the game.
     
  25. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    35,710
    Ignorant is the person who doesn't care to learn from history.
    He's likely to restep all the mistakes his ancestors made, due to his pigheadedness.
     
  26. JRstriker12

    JRstriker12 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2006
    Messages:
    3,364
    I think some one forgot to tell Stan that his one hander is not suited for park tennis today vs. Murray..... :twisted:
     
  27. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    34,794
    Playing against the Rafa is the golden standard. Murray doesn't cut it.
     
  28. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2012
    Messages:
    1,954
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale, FL
    I beg to differ. The Macster is still a force to be reckoned with. I wish I had a 1hbh like his.

    Also, as I mentioned in a previous post, given the frequency of 1hbh at the rec level, and the lesser demands of rec/park level tennis, I think it's pretty hard for you to argue that the 1hbh isn't suited for it.

    Just my two cents.
     
  29. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    34,794
    Frequency = frequency of old farts. It has nothing to do with the 1 hander. It is changing as new people are entering. When the current young players come back as old farts, there will be more 2 handers around.

    Already, most of the women are 2 handers, so I think you are not even counting them.
     
  30. JRstriker12

    JRstriker12 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2006
    Messages:
    3,364
    LOL! Any win over the top 4-5 play is a good win - period.

    Murray's backhand isn't a joke either.
     
  31. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    35,710
    While the current TREND is towards 2hbh, especially for girls, it's still NOT an exclusive, and neither can be catagorically stated as superior.
    It starts with the fact little tiny kids have trouble hitting with one hand, on the backhand. It ends with players not wanting to change what they already know.
    Guys like DelPo and Isner, Tsonga and Soderling, have the strength to hit 1hbh, but don't change because any change is RISKY to their fragile minds.
     
  32. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    34,794
    Really? So you know the mental state of top players and are very sure why they will not do something?
     
  33. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    35,710
    Obviously I know it better than you.
     
  34. TomT

    TomT Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2012
    Messages:
    1,954
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale, FL
    You might be right, but the best young guys I play against have one handers. Although, I have to agree that there do seem to be more two handers than in '75/'76.

    There's only one woman in my league this season. She's a 1hbh. But you might be right that most women are using the 2hbh.
     
  35. JRstriker12

    JRstriker12 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2006
    Messages:
    3,364
    FWIW - Tsonga breaks out the one hander every once in a while.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LktrtCwsPBE
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwAmU7YY8nk
     
  36. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    34,794
    Women play a lot of leagues. There itself the 1 handed BH argument falls apart. It is also no secret that many women have a better BH than the 1 handed BH of a same level male player. I have seen stylish "Federer" 3.5 males being taken apart by a shrewd 3.5 or 4.0 woman who always hits to their 1 handed BH. They scream and shout and shake their heads and look at their frame with disgust and then complain about pushers.
     
  37. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    34,794
    And someone forgot to tell Philip K that his 1 hander did not stand a chance against Nadal
     
  38. JRstriker12

    JRstriker12 Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2006
    Messages:
    3,364
    It's still suited for park tennis though....
     
  39. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    34,794
    I am not the one who introduced Stan into the discussion
     
  40. arche3

    arche3 Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2009
    Messages:
    5,389
    Is rhe majority of rec players with 1hbhs better off quitting? Last time I checked a lot of really good rec players with 1hbh.
     
  41. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    35,710
    Only the banned LuvForty/Dozu is convinced that 1hbh is not suited for park tennis.....
    In in defense of Suresh, he also.
     
  42. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    34,794
    Could they be better with a 2 hander is the question
     
  43. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    35,710
    Many different ways to make a park level player better, which includes a better backhand, of course.
    Consider how many different aspects of tennis to improve. Well, adopting a 2hbh is just ONE of the factors.
    I could use a dose of movement, eyesight, muscle recovery, conditioning, strengh training, an injection of smarts, and even keel, some growth hormones, and that is not listing any stroke deficientcies, which I have tons of.
    Adopting a 2hbh? Nah, I used one for 3 years back in the late '70's, and know how to exploit it also.
     
  44. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2005
    Messages:
    34,794
    ^^^ At your age, I would have thought you would be wise enough not to take my posts too seriously. arche3 is young and inexperienced, but you?
     
  45. arche3

    arche3 Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2009
    Messages:
    5,389
    I don't think it matters at the rec level. Do you think it matters at your 3.5, 4.0 level? Personally?
     
  46. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    35,710
    Even an octagenian can get fooled by the flim flam man...:)
    I just listed a few things I could adopt to improve my tennis, but truth is, I spend more time windsurfing and riding my bikes than in tennis, and dream about surfing much more often than thinking of my tennis.
     
  47. arche3

    arche3 Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2009
    Messages:
    5,389
    Well luv40 is funny because dozu actually hits a 1hbh. I don't think dozu would improve switching to a 2hbh. His movement is suspect to begin with.
     
  48. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    35,710
    True dat, as we've seen the vids, but...
    Does Suresh, who's taken it upon himself to extend the legacy of Dozu, use a 2hbh????????
     
  49. arche3

    arche3 Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2009
    Messages:
    5,389
    You do know I only post to you and the late dozu to annoy you guys right? I don't take you seriously at all. I mention yandel because I know you will defend him that's all.
     
  50. arche3

    arche3 Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2009
    Messages:
    5,389
    I think sureshs hits 1hbh. Probably has a good slice. Most old timers can slice like a knife.
     

Share This Page