I beat the guy 60 60 and he called me "a pusher!"

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by Gonzalito17, Nov 17, 2012.

  1. Anton

    Anton Hall of Fame

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    I hit the crap out of every ball, send half to the fence and call the other guy a pusher when I lose :twisted:
     
  2. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

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    I see you're on Staten Island, I would blame it on the strong tail-wind.

    Seriously, you guys were one of the worst hit in the storm, how's the recovery going, and more importantly, how did the nets and fence screens hold up?
     
  3. Anton

    Anton Hall of Fame

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    Most of the damage is by south shore, a lot people lost cars and have to rebuild first floors and basements entirely.

    Tennis gods made sure that very few tennis courts were effected, though prove to be no match for crappy NE winter weather out here.
     
  4. Gonzalito17

    Gonzalito17 Hall of Fame

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    Anton keep hitting em hard, they'll eventually start falling in. (No promises though!)
     
  5. Gonzalito17

    Gonzalito17 Hall of Fame

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    Pushers make better lovers.
     
  6. Mick

    Mick Legend

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    I have a hitting partner who could generate amazing power (serve, ground strokes, volley, etc). However, he lacks consistency. If you could return 3, 4 of his shots, most likely you'll beat him. definitely not a pusher :)
     
  7. Gonzalito17

    Gonzalito17 Hall of Fame

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    It's like the power punch in boxing Mick, you can have the strongest punching power in the world but if you can't hit the target you're gonna fail miserably.
     
  8. TennisCJC

    TennisCJC Legend

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    Yea, during the wood era: Harold Soloman and Eddie Dibbs were pushers.

    In modern era you have to go back a few years: Michael Chang and Coria were pushers.
     
  9. Gonzalito17

    Gonzalito17 Hall of Fame

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    I dont' see how you can conclude Chang and Coria or any ATP pro is a pusher. Sure they may use slowball no pace tactics at times but to call them pushers by a likely local ham & egg hacker should be a punishable offense.
     
  10. dcdoorknob

    dcdoorknob Hall of Fame

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    No, they weren't. Not even close really. Counter-puncher does not equal pusher.

    I mean, clearly, in some people's heads it does, but those people are wrong. :)
     
  11. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    For the pro level, Solomon and Dibbs were pushers.
     
  12. Mick

    Mick Legend

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    Wozniacki is like a pusher in that she doesn't have any weapon compared to her peers except for her incredible consistency.
     
  13. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Brad Gilbert called himself a pusher.
    His sister Dana said he was a pusher.
    Yes, he could hit winning shots.
    But he chose to push mostly.
     
  14. storypeddler

    storypeddler Semi-Pro

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    So what's wrong with being a pusher? I have won multiple state singles and doubles championships and been rated #1 in the Southern section as a 4.0 player, and "pushing" was always half of my game. What one man calls pushing I call game management and percentage tennis. You don't have to have a huge game to win matches; you can also win by eliminating errors, running everything down, and forcing your opponent out of his comfort zone. Look---if you can't beat a pusher, then clearly you are worse than a pusher. That's a cheap, crybaby complaint from someone who is a very poor loser. If you don't like my style of play, then beat me and put me in my place. If you can't beat me or my style of play, that's your problem.
     
  15. storypeddler

    storypeddler Semi-Pro

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    BINGO!!! Couldn't have said it better.
     
  16. Mick

    Mick Legend

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    unfortunately, a lot of people think they are better tennis players than those "pushers" who have beaten them. So they would blame the pushers for their losses.
     
  17. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    My game is the opposite of a pusher, but anyone who really understands tennis understands that a pusher is a smart player who is difficult to beat. GIVE THE PUSHERS THEIR DUE RESPECT!
     
  18. chatt_town

    chatt_town Hall of Fame

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    Yep, that's a lame excuse that tennis players use. I've heard that a 1,000 times. It's amazing of the excuses people come up with(check out my excuse thread).lol I beat a guy in the finals of a 4.5 league here and he biotched and moaned about him having to play from no man's land the whole time. It's really just another way of saying you played smarter. In sports where a team say football is up and it's 1:45 left, 99 percent of the teams run the clock out but I've never heard the losing team complain about the winning team being panzies and not playing til the end. They accept the fact that they lost. Nor do I hear baseball teams complain when the the pitcher pitches around a guy that has been killing the ball to get to the pitcher or a weaker hitter, but oooo in Tennis. If you see that a guy can't move for anything and has 45 extra pounds of weight, you are a pusher because you won't hit the ball back to him where he can hit it down their throat. Some people that play tennis are just dumb@$$es. This person you played sounds like one and they will always be at the bottom until they get what you described in your post. Because with determination will come the ability to figure out how to hit the ball over the net and at the same time make it hard for the other person to hit it back to you. It's common sense.

    Peace,

    Chatt_town
     
  19. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Yup, pushing is a valid way to win at tennis.
    I mentioned before I met this old bud, from 27 years ago, a few years back.
    First thing he says to me is that he was No.1, NorCal 4.0, in 2000 or around there...I didn't care, I thought we were better then (like 4 years ago).
    He always hits soft, low, and lobs a lot. I hit much harder, go for more shots, make more mistakes. We ended up playing over 20 sets. I never beat him better than 3. Most sets go to tiebreaker. He never got a set off me, but got many tiebreakers off many, when we chose to play those. He won almost every game to 11 or 21, no serves. Both of us lefties.
    When player's ask how we did, I always say we're about even. Pressure matches would favor his style. Loose and relaxed, I'd crush him.
    We're about even.
     
  20. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Also, a player playing the push style NEVER wins any points.
    His opponent's miss trying to beat him.
     
  21. Bergboy123

    Bergboy123 Semi-Pro

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    That's exactly why I can't stand pushing. I know for a fact that my defense is far better than my offense, and I would benefit from more pushing, but to me that style isn't fun, and I play tennis for fun.
     
  22. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    That's why I jokingly chided the OP.
    He didn't beat anyone, the other guy missed until he lost.
    To beat anyone, you have to win the point, not "not lose" the point.
     
  23. dyldore

    dyldore Rookie

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    There is a difference between hitting slow paced, high percentage shots and pushing. It's hard to define pushing but you know it when you see it. To me, the major difference is how that person plays outside of matches. If there style of tennis is to push the ball back into play without much action on it, etc. Then fine, that's just what skill level they are at. But if they take big swings and go for shots during warmup/rallys and then resort to pushing during matches, that is a true pusher. Like LeeD said, too afraid of losing, they wont try to win.
     
  24. Mick

    Mick Legend

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    i disagree.
    in the game of tennis, whoever wins the last point wins. It doesn't matter how he/she did it.

    this summer, Serena Williams played Sorana Cirstea at Stanford University.
    Cirstea knew she was no match for Serena so she went for a winner on every stroke. Realizing what was happening, Serena just returned the balls back deep and waited for Cirstea to make the errors (Serena disclosed this in the post match interview). Serena won 6-1, 6-2

    If we go by your view, Serena didn't beat Cirstea, Cirstea missed until she lost :shock:
     
  25. dyldore

    dyldore Rookie

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    It's different in the pros because pushing for Serena is hitting as hard as me on my best day, and she only does it for 1 match out of 50. But the idea at any other level is to improve, and if you push 9 times out of 10 you will never improve. You have to practice the harder shots in a match, even if you miss, so you can get better at them. You have to be bad to get good.
     
  26. Mick

    Mick Legend

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    well, i realize tennis players have to develop weapons to advance to the higher levels.
    but I disagree with the idea that to win, the player must hit the winning shots.

    let's say you played somebody who plays like Cirstea did in that match and you used Serena's strategy and the results were 6-1, 6-2 in your favor. Would you say you didn't win that match?
     
  27. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Nobody said Serena lost.
    Nobody said OP lost.
    Then won the matches because their opponent's missed and missed until the scoring ended.
    Would you consider that WINNING tennis? Or would you consider that playing the match NOT TO LOSE?
     
  28. Mick

    Mick Legend

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    my view is simple, whoever wins the match wins. It doesn't matter how he/she does it.
    If I played a pusher and he won the match, he played winning tennis because I could not figure out how to beat him over 2 sets.

    In your view, you could never lose to a pusher because pushers don't hit winners :-D
     
  29. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Simple answers for simple minds.
    If I lost to a pusher, I'd say..congrats on beating me, I hate your style, but it worked even though you didn't WIN any points against me, you won the tactical match and therefore, you won!
    Going home, I'd know I can play better tennis, while he WON this particular match, but didn't WIN individual points.
    He knows he pushed, I know he pushed. And yes, his tactic worked.
     
  30. dyldore

    dyldore Rookie

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    It's really just a play on words with the order that you say it. If Serena hit a winner every point, I would say that Serena won, therefore Cirstea lost. But if Cirstea missed every shot I would say Cirstea lost, therefore Serena won (by default is the implication).

    But like I said before it is different in the pros because winning is all that matters. Everyone can play and their "pushing" has just as much pace and placement as my best shots lol.
     
  31. Mick

    Mick Legend

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    OK. LeeD, From your post above, you are from the camp that doesn't like to play pushers. I am from the camp that doesn't care how my opponents play the game.
     
  32. Mick

    Mick Legend

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    Let's say you play a USTA match and your opponent goes for broke on every shot and overhits 75% of them, are you going to go for broke too? Would your coach advises such a strategy?
     
  33. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Simple mind not always correct.
    I play my style regardless of winning or losing, choosing to hit 5.0 level shots, whether they go in or not. I used to play at that level, so I know I can hit them sometimes.
    I don't care what my opponent plays. Most play push, because they haven't harnessed the firepower into any kind of consistency. And, they need to win.
    I only need to glimpse my former self, so losing and winning is not the point, the point is to hit shots I know I'm capable of hitting, even if it doesn't always work out.
    YOU care only about winning or losing. There is one player where we play who throws his racket, goes into a hissy fit, and slams the ball down as hard as he could when he loses a game....IN DOUBLES, pickup 4.0. He's a 4.5 doubles player. You might be like him.
    I laugh at any 45 year old who acts like a 13 year old kid.
     
  34. Mick

    Mick Legend

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    you wrote:
    >>If I lost to a pusher, I'd say..congrats on beating me, I hate your style, but it worked even though you didn't WIN any points against me, you won the tactical match and therefore, you won!<<

    >>YOU care only about winning or losing. <<

    Not sure how you came to that conclusion. I don't care about winning because I know there are plenty of people out there who can play better than me. I am the one who says I don't mind if a pusher beats me.
     
  35. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    All your talk stresses winning.
    You don't care how you hit the ball, as long as you WIN.
    That's how you come across....
     
  36. Mick

    Mick Legend

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    wow. you mis-read all of my posts :shock:
    i wrote I don't care how my opponents hit the ball

    you play your game and I play my game. If you beat me then you are a better tennis player than me.
    Does that sound like I only care about winning :confused:
     
  37. dyldore

    dyldore Rookie

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    No, but I don't go for broke when I play most points anyways. If I were playing a person like that I would just hit my normal shots, I wouldn't only let him make unforced errors, I would also force some. And at the end I would say that he beat himself, I won by default. :p
     
  38. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Yes, Mick. You still justify everything by WINNING. If it wins, it's good.
     
  39. Mick

    Mick Legend

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    Oh well, you mis-understood me but other people who read this thread will understand.
     
  40. Mick

    Mick Legend

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    Sure, that's what most players would do. I am glad you don't advocate going for broke as well :)
     
  41. Borrelli

    Borrelli Semi-Pro

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    That's the bottom line right there!

    I beat the majority of the pushers I play because I've improved my strokes and now the pushers who used to beat me can't understand why their games aren't improving. I was trying to make difficult shots and missing a lot but knowing that it was going to do vastly more to improve my game then just blocking the ball back like them. Now I make the shots and have more fun playing.
     
  42. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Exactly. I player who always pushes to win has maxed out his game.
    A player who hits smart good shots with power and placement has unlimited potential to get better.
     
  43. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Exactly. I player who always pushes to win has maxed out his game.
    A player who hits smart good shots with power and placement has unlimited potential to get better.
    Your choice which to be.
     
  44. dyldore

    dyldore Rookie

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    If you are a 5.0 and you lose to someone who just gets the ball back and waits for you to make an error, you lost, and they are not a pusher. It takes skill to return a 5.0 shots consistently without setting them up to hit a winner.

    However, if you are a 2.5/3.0 and you are trying to hit a moderately paced topspin shot but aren't very good at it yet, and the person you're playing against dinks the ball over and sets you up every shot but you miss. You will technically lose (beat yourself) every match, but your tennis will improve with the practice and that is what I (and I think LeeD as well) mean by win.

    Haha thanks!
     
  45. dyldore

    dyldore Rookie

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    Been there! lol it is unfortunately a very common occurrence. You have to get bad to get good. If you play the same game every time, how can you expect to improve?

    It takes me so long to reply everything I say has already been said. :neutral:
     
  46. Mick

    Mick Legend

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    I have played with a few 5.0 but they didn't hit 5.0 shots. They knew I was not at their levels so they would hit the ball right back to me nice and deep. Those were nice sessions which I enjoyed very much.

    Sometimes I would play against two 2.5/3.0 players. Now those are difficult because they could not control the ball and would hit the ball all over the places, even beyond the boundary of the doubles court area. But it's a good workout.

    I don't think I have ever face a pure pusher before (ie someone who does not go for a winner). At one of the tournaments, i played mixed doubles and the woman on the other team was like a tennis machine. Very consistent and precise but she could produce winners as well although she didn't hit the ball with a lot of pace.
     
  47. storypeddler

    storypeddler Semi-Pro

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    LOL. This is almost ludicrous to me.

    "I used to play at that level, so I know I can hit them sometimes."
    ""I only need to glimpse my former self, so losing and winning is not the point, the point is to hit shots I know I'm capable of hitting, even if it doesn't always work out."

    Seriously, Lee? SERIOUSLY? So all you want from playing is a glimpse, every now and then, of the player you once were? A brief nostalgic fleeting hint of when you had a big game? Really? Fine---play that way. But don't assume that everyone who plays a thoughtful, consistent, high-percentage game is a pusher. They aren't. In spite of what you might think, most people who play tennis play to win. Of course we would all love to continue to improve and develop more game, but not just to have more game. We want to improve so that we will have a better chance of winning our matches. I love tennis and I love playing tennis, but what makes me play the hardest is the desire to beat my opponent. What good would it do me to develop lots of superb shots but never play a match? The shots are not an end in themselves---at least not to anyone but you. Sure, tennis can be played casually where no one keeps score at all and it is just for exercise. But competitive tennis is about winning and losing, trying to find a way to beat your opponent. If I had 5.0 level shots, I would probably use them first and foremost. But if the purpose in playing a match is to win it (as Mick and I both agree), then I will adjust my style in any given match to whatever I have to in order to give me the best chance of winning that particular match. That's not pushing---that's just smart tennis. When you say you only want a glimpse of your former self, that sounds for all the world like a guy who is living on stories of how great he used to be. If that's the case, you don't need to play at all now---just find some people who are willing to listen to you regale them with tales of how great you once were. I don't mean this in a hurtful way, my friend, but really, tennis IS about winning, or at least trying your best to. If it wasn't, no one would keep score. I play with a guy who swings out on almost every groundstroke. He seldom wins and he knows his chances of winning with his style are poor to none. But he lives for that one-in-fifty shot where he connects perfectly with the ball and delivers a remarkable shot. To get a couple of those a night, he will happily take his beating routinely and feel his time was well spent. None of his friends consider him a pusher---they just consider him a good guy but a mediocre player. He has better shots and can play a much better game when he plays with some reason, but he prefers going for big shots to winning. Ok by me. I would be happy to meet a series of guys like that in a tournament and beat them all with my boring tennis. They can go home feeling good about their two or three unbelievable shots and I can go home with the trophy.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2012
  48. dlam

    dlam Rookie

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    Why is this thread going strong?
    I hear of many people calling Andy Murray a pusher and he's a top rank player won Olympic gold medal and can easily beat any rec player 6-0
    If I beat anyone 6-0 6-0 and he calls me a pusher it's no skin of my nose
     
  49. TimeToPlaySets

    TimeToPlaySets Rookie

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  50. Gonzalito17

    Gonzalito17 Hall of Fame

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    LOL Storypeddler. Nice retort. LeeD please regale us with some stories about how great you used to be and some of your most cherished triumphs.
     

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