I can't beleive it. After winning Wimbly, Olympics and US Serena is still world no.4?

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by Paullaconte1, Sep 10, 2012.

  1. Paullaconte1

    Paullaconte1 Rookie

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    #1
  2. Mainad

    Mainad G.O.A.T.

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    In one sense, obviously not as Serena is clearly head and shoulders above the vast majority of the WTA and probably ahead of the current #1. But she doesn't play enough tournaments to boost her to her rightful place in the rankings. That's been the problem for her.

    Maybe the rankings should be weighted differently but, then again, maybe the WTA is saying that if Serena wants her rightful place at the top of the tree, she should play more of their tournaments and not just show up at the Slams and one or two premier events.
     
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  3. mellowyellow

    mellowyellow Hall of Fame

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    See RG results.
     
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  4. フェデラー

    フェデラー Hall of Fame

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    Yeah if she had gone further in RG and AO she would have done a lot better. So we can always look to next year. What is more surprising to me is that she is only 3rd in the WTA race for the year. Honestly it doesn't matter that much. I'm sure she'll get it eventually, she just has to perform well, or at least attend, minor tournaments.
     
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  5. BigServer1

    BigServer1 Legend

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    This is such a joke. You win two Majors in a year and you're #3 in the race?

    If we replicated this on the men's tour this year, with her exact results, do we have any idea where that man would be in the ATP race?
     
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  6. SystemicAnomaly

    SystemicAnomaly G.O.A.T.

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    The tortoise and the hare.

    If Serena wants the #1 ranking she's got to put in the time. She's only played 15 tournaments in the past year. Lost in the 4r at the AO and the 1r at the FO. She has done very well otherwise but we can hardly say that she has been dominant enough thoughout the past year to earn the #1 slot.
     
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  7. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Do the math. The ranking is base on 12-month period. Serena lost 1st round at RG, boycotted IW are just few things that put her in #4.
     
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  8. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    Rankings dont matter in the WTA. They are merely a sideshow. Wozniacki was #1 for a long time and everyone thought she was a joke, and nobody considered her the best. Everyone knows who the real #1 is.
     
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  9. fuzzyball

    fuzzyball Rookie

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    Serena is only the best player of the last 2 monthes and a half, thats why she isn't ranked higher than 4 on a ranking system based on the last 12 monthes.
     
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  10. Evan77

    Evan77 Banned

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    Serena only cares about slams and she plays when she feels playing which is not very often.

    She simply doesn't play enough. The WTA rankings are hilarious. Woz was ranked #1 for 2 years by just being consistent and playing many tournaments. JJ did the same thing few years ago. Safina too.

    I don't think Serena cares if she is ranked #500 or #1.

    We all know that she is a true #1. All players know it too.
     
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  11. tennisMVP

    tennisMVP Banned

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  12. tacou

    tacou Legend

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    The issue has been addressed a million times. What interests me more is, can't the tournaments--at least the slams--seed Serena wherever they want?

    I don't think point distribution needs to be completely reconstructed, but maybe Wimbledon or USO needs to man up and say "Hey, she's obviously the best, so she gets the #1 seed." I can't imagine any valid complaints from other players.
     
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  13. zam88

    zam88 Professional

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    i don't think serena gives a crap about her ranking and we shouldn't either.

    The system isn't designed to reward the best player, just the best accumulator.

    If Serena had it her way she'd probably play 8 tournaments a year... 1 warmup before each of the 4 slams.


    Rafa would probably love to play about 12 tournaments a year too.. 4 slams, 3 other clay tournaments, and a tune up before each major... and call it a year.
     
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  14. pmerk34

    pmerk34 Legend

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    She had a dominant summer that's for sure. She's 31 years old and built like a brick house. She could never withstand a full schedule at this rate. The landscape has shifted to the point where the players and fans seem to now hold the slams as the highest goals to acheive.
     
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  15. AnotherTennisProdigy

    AnotherTennisProdigy Professional

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    The system rewards whoever gains the most points throughout the year, which requires playing alot. Just look at Wozniaki. She's the complete opposite, she was able to get a lot of points in other tournaments which allowed her to get to #1 without being of any relevence at the slams.
     
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  16. Down_the_line

    Down_the_line Legend

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    At the end of the day, the way the ranking system is structured isn't perfect but it's the best way possible. There are always different ways of doing things, just like simply playing in a ton of tournaments and getting pretty decent results at all of them is a different way of getting to the top.
     
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  17. THUNDERVOLLEY

    THUNDERVOLLEY G.O.A.T.

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    She has her view on that, but everyone knows the majors are her focus--as it should be. No one gives two craps about ultimately worthless tournaments like IW, or the other minor events which are not the markers of a history making career.


    That would make it so much more forgiving on the bodies of every player--which should be (but is not) the primary concern of the tennis PTB.
     
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  18. krz

    krz Professional

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    You can think of like that or the other side of the coin is what if she did play a full schedule like the rest of the players?

    Would she be able to dominate the way she has after the grind of a full schedule?

    Maybe... maybe not. Probably still would given how weak this generation of players is but, just saying not playing a full schedule has its advantages.
     
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  19. bluetrain4

    bluetrain4 Legend

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    Why is it suprising? It's not an opinion poll, a subjective assessement of who is the best player.

    Sure, I, and many others, think Serena is the best player, but the rankings are simply an objective formula of awarding points, plugging in the numbers, and obtaining the results. We know Serena doesn't play that often. We know she lost first round at the French. So, it's not that surprising.
     
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  20. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    One difference in the WTA ranking system vs the ATP system is in the point spread between winning a tournament vs losing in middle rounds. In the WTA, middle-round losers get relatively speaking more points than ATP middle round losers. This in essence rewards consistency of getting into middle rounds of tournaments over ability to win the whole tournament (relative to ATP).

    I can't be bothered to do the math of how Serena's results vs the field would have resulted in the ATP, but I would not be surprised if her results would have been good enough to put her at #1 in the race.
     
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  21. フェデラー

    フェデラー Hall of Fame

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    I may be wrong, but I think Wimby is the only slam that will seed according to how they see fit, based on past performances etc etc. I mean I doubt they would seed her 1 if she is 4, since as I said before when it comes to the draw there is not much difference between 1 and 4.
     
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  22. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    Wimby seeds using their own system, which takes into account ranking, grass court tournament results, and past Wimby results. But even then there is a system behind it - I don't think they subjectively just decide how to assign the seeds.
     
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  23. redpurusha

    redpurusha Rookie

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    I much rather would just play and win the slams than be ranked #1. Make more money too. I would do exactly that the Williams sisters are doing in their prodigy environment they were brought up in.
     
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  24. mellowyellow

    mellowyellow Hall of Fame

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    Somehow the "maths" escapes everyone on here. No one seems to realize the results of the others are not just somethign you push off to the side because they didn't win a slam or only 1 of them. Djoko could hold 2 slams after today, and final/semifinal in the other 2 and he still will not be the No.1
     
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  25. jones101

    jones101 Hall of Fame

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    Its quite simple why she is not number one really.

    280 out of 2000 in AO (One of her strongest events)
    250 out of 1000 in Miami (As above)
    5 out of 2000 points in Roland Garros (Quarterna usually shows up)

    So, out of 5000 points she only gained 535, which is just over 10% of available points.

    The rankings are not wrong, Serena just underperformed to begin.

    With Vika/Maria/Aga's strong pre-clay results, I can see Serena being number one by AO time (definitely Miami), providing she keeps 'Serving these b1tches up' (no subpoena:) )
     
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  26. tennisMVP

    tennisMVP Banned

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    Because of the invention of the internet, fans take rankings seriously. Before the internet, nobody cared much about the rankings. I doubt the players care much about the rankings these days either, but the fans are obsessed because of the internet. In reality though, the only thing that matters is who wins each slam. And that's mostly Nadal and Djokovic. Murray won't prove anything until he wins a slam. Going to number 3 in the rankings means nothing. In fact he did it in early 2010.
     
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  27. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    Points systems rewards consistency. If you go out in the first round, you fall way behind the other players.
     
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  28. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    The players care tremendously about the rankings (except historically the Williams). Do you not know that the seeding depends on the rankings? Though there is some leveling, #'s 1 and 2 are in better position than #'s 3 and 4 and being ranked #4 gives you a lot better chance of winning a tournament than #5.
     
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  29. tennisMVP

    tennisMVP Banned

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    The number one ranking has been devalued a lot because over the last 3 decades there have been legends who rarely had the number one ranking. It means nothing.
     
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  30. tennisMVP

    tennisMVP Banned

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    I agree players care about the rankings for the reason of avoiding others in the draw, but the number one ranking as an achievement is not a big deal compared to the achievement of winning slams. Top 2, sure that helps you in the draw. But the top ranking, trivial (when compared to winning slams).
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2012
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  31. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    I guarantee you that being #1 means/meant a lot to Federer and Sampras. Sampras almost drained himself completely going for his 6th year end #1 ranking.
     
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  32. THUNDERVOLLEY

    THUNDERVOLLEY G.O.A.T.

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    That is the point of entering pro tennis--the majors, which is why fake #1 players such as Wozniacki, Safina and jankovic were heavily criticized (deservedly so) for trumpeting a ranking, which meant nothing without the majors. It is no coincidence the aforementioned trio all tried to defend their hollow position: they realized none had the talent to win majors, so clawing on to the ranking was all they had.
     
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  33. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    She is now a lock to sweep all the Player of the Year awards, which is of more value than the computer #1 ranking anyway.
     
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  34. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

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    I didn't even know they had a Player of the Year. Didn't know that it was the reason pros played tennis.
    I think there is too much emphasis on winning a major and not enough on being number 1. Consistency and supporting the tour through the year - which makes it financially viable - are important. If the big names just cherry-pick the slam tournaments, it doesn't support the tour and it all falls apart.
     
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  35. Loose Cannon

    Loose Cannon Rookie

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    Agree with OP 100%......

    Anyone that acknowledges a ranking......other than #1.....for Serena..........is clueless. Its a joke. Im sure the players #1-3 HAVE to feel embarrassed over this. Serena i s #1 and its not even close. I dont care what mid tier events she isnt winning. When the chips are down, Serena >>>> WTA many times over
     
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  36. Loose Cannon

    Loose Cannon Rookie

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    Geeezz.....I wonder why?????:confused:

    Maybe because......the WTA rankings are hilariously faulty.........this example being the greatest claim.

    Who cares about a ranking......when its obviously wrong and meaningless. Serena wins and beats your favorite installment of 'Who's #1 this week'. Winning the ones that counts.......is..........what matters
     
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  37. THUNDERVOLLEY

    THUNDERVOLLEY G.O.A.T.

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    What?? The majors is the central goal --not being #1. This is not the iTunes music charts.

    Wozniacki, Safina and Jankovic were "consistent" enough to be #1 players, running across the world like chickens with their heads cut off, but they did more to hurt the WTA than anything else. The sport loves true champions, and nothing gets more audience support than strong champions at the biggest events.

    What do you think the audience cares more about? Empty #1 players going to nearly every event and crash & burning at the majors, or serious players--coming through when it counts most--like Serena at this year's Wimbledon, Olympics and U.S. Open?
     
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  38. tudwell

    tudwell Hall of Fame

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    Serena should get into shape and play a full season if she wants to be the best player in the world.
     
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  39. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Only Serena lovers at TTW ignore the important of ranking because it's Serena big hole. Graf/Martina's ranking stats is one of their major accomplishment that makes them the top two goat. Sampras is regarded as one of all time great because of his 6 years at #1 and 286 weeks at #1. Federer add more to his legacy as he just broke Sampras most weeks at #1
     
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  40. Seany

    Seany Banned

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    Wow, you guys are being incredibly harsh on Azarenka, she had a great year, despite the fact she has so few fans and is very annoying, she played well.

    Sharapova also had a great year results wise.

    Radwanska...well she wont be there for long, her ranking is a result of the generally atrocious standard on the WTA.

    Serena should be ranked 3 IMO, but everybody knows she's the best, she'll be number 1 after she wins the AO probably.
     
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  41. THUNDERVOLLEY

    THUNDERVOLLEY G.O.A.T.

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    Serena is in shape and kicked the ass of players younger and theoretically in their primes.

    By the way, Serena won Wimbledon, Olympics gold, and the US Open. She's already the best player in the world by light years.

    Any challengers to this title?

    Kvitova?

    Azarenka?

    Sharapova?

    Woznia--okay. Just kidding about the last one.
     
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  42. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    The #1 ranking is not a reflection on who is the best player in the World in the WTA and hasnt been for many years now. Serena is clearly the best player in the World. Your statement would be fine if you replaced best player in the World with the #1 ranking which are two totally different things in the planet of the WTA.
     
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  43. NikeWilson

    NikeWilson Semi-Pro

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    It's a flawed points system. They need to change it.
    Even the men's side is a flawed system too.
    The whole "defending points from last year" thing is retarded. The only reason they use that method is to enforce a "you better play, or you'll pay the consequences" mentality to the players.
    It's so dumb.
     
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  44. LuckyR

    LuckyR Legend

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    If any player wants to increase their ranking (and personally I think posters on the thread are much more upset about Serena's ranking than she is), it is pretty simple to show up for tourneys and win matches.

    Saying: "I woulda won that" or "she woulda won that" is idle internet chit chat not a system for ranking tennis players.
     
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  45. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    Regardless of whether the ranking is merited or not the main point is the #1 ranking in no way reflects who is really the best in the WTA. For the record I do think Azarenka deserves her #1 ranking unlike Wozniacki's farce #1 ranking of last year. However Serena is hands down the best player by a wide margin.
     
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  46. Loose Cannon

    Loose Cannon Rookie

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    Nobody cares about rankings. Really. How cant we grasp this?

    What Serena did this Summer, will, in all likely hood......be greater than what ANY other female is able to muster up over the course of the next THREE YEARS combined......easily. You are registering this, right?
     
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  47. Emet74

    Emet74 Professional

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    There's no such thing as "defending points." It's just that your points drop off one year after you earned them.

    Obviously if players don't play they can't earn new points.

    You have to have a drop off date for points or maybe Pete Sampras would still be top 10.
     
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  48. THUNDERVOLLEY

    THUNDERVOLLEY G.O.A.T.

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    No, because like kids arguing over video game rankings, he--like a lot of very young "fans" on this board--place all value on rankings, when it is no way a measure of success on tour at the most important events. Check this forum--there's several threads about ATP and WTA rankings instead of the central goal of any player: winning majors.

    Only someone obsessed with hating Serena would even think that there's some negative issue with recongizing her as the far and away best player of the year (rankings be damned), as she won two majors and Olympic gold--something no one else could come close to matching, and likely never will.
     
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  49. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Winning slams is the MOST important and I've always stressed this before. But ranking IS part of tennis achievement and part of player's legacy. To say "nobody care" is ignorant and/or a Serena lover.
     
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  50. NadalAgassi

    NadalAgassi Guest

    The WTA rankings have been so controversial since 2000 (and I am not just talking about whether Serena is #1 or not, for the record the only year she didnt end #1 in points I thought she should have was 2008, there are many ranking controversies over the years not involving her) that the value of rankings in womens tennis history has dropped to close to zero. Sorry but that is reality. A mug like Wozniacki ending year end #1 twice, once with a crummy year like 2011 which clearly wasnt even the best of that poor WTA year (Kvitova was by a long ways, with Sharapova and Azarenka also better than Woz) was pretty much the nail in the coffin for the WTA #1 ranking legacy.

    As for Navratilova and Graf's legacies being based predominantly in their time at #1, dont make me laugh. Only the most diehard tennis fans would even have any idea whether Graf has more weeks at #1, or whether Martina does. All people know is Martina won a record 18 Wimbledons and mauled the rest of the womens game for about 5 years straight in the mid 80s, while Graf is the most versatile slam winner ever who won a Golden Slam and was the best player in the World for the most part of 10 years. As for being #1 people only think in terms of who they remember being the best around a certain time, and people will remember Serena being the best player in the World for atleast half of the last 10 years, with still likely more to come, not which random nobody (sorry to most people Azarenka and Wozniacki and Jankovic and Safina are all nobodies, with Azarenka maybe claiming out of that a bit with her U.S Open match with Serena) the computer had at #1.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 11, 2012
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