I give up. Can't play pushers.

Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by luishcorreia, Apr 27, 2013.

  1. TimothyO

    TimothyO Hall of Fame

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    Those comments explain why you lost.

    1. He hit safely by dinking stuff back. He knows the first rule of tennis: don't miss. You violated that rule by missing.

    2. Your solutions (come to net, hit behind him) are isolated shots, not patterns of play.

    3. You can't make him put up anything since he knows you're willing to do that and make UEs. He has no reason to put up anything to score points, you're doing it for him.

    Here's a potential two or three-shot solution if he has a weak backhand:

    1. In crosscourt BH exchange hit deep crosscourt without much pace...just get the ball deep and as wide as possible with decent margin for error. Your low pace will make the ball bounce below the net forcing him to pop it up over the net for a no pace dinker/floater.

    2. If he's really a safety minded dinker his shot will be cross- to mid court and not very deep...start moving there while your shot is outbound.

    3. He's now deep on his ad side, you're maybe on your ad side to mid-court inside the baseline with a floating duck. If you're really as good as you say you are then the deuce court is wide open and you have control of the middle and are in a stable hitting position as the ball floats up off a soft bounce. You can sense his movement and based on his move and the ball's characteristics you can:

    - pause, let him commit, and hit crosscourt behind him as he moves to the middle

    - drop shot short on his deuce side

    - if the ball bounces high hit flat down the line with pace meaning at a 90-degree angle to the baseline which takes away time while reducing your chance of making an error by hitting wide accidentally.

    In all three cases he's scrambling to get to the ball. And in all three cases, since you know the shot you're taking, you can start moving to position after striking the ball. If you:

    - hit behind him then setup crosscourt on the ad side, his highest percentage shot, and you're already roughly there

    - if you drop shotted then close the net a little bit crosscourt of the ball

    - if you hit DTL with pace then move crosscourt to the deuce side between the baseline and service line

    In all three cases his return should be weak and, if he's a disciplined dinker then he'll go for the high percentage shot and you're already be in position for a put away. That's a three shot play that sets you up for a put-away and exploits his no-pace, big safety margin hitting and weak backhand. And your shots need not be mighty monster topspin shots. Just solid, easy shots will do the trick.

    Finally, if he's hitting with such low pace and you're really that good once inside the baseline you should be taking some of those shots out of the air with volleys or swing-volleys giving him even less time to teleport. For example, in the play above the third shot is probably a volley opportunity for a put-away. Even a pusher can't violate the laws of physics by teleporting.

    I learned this because, after playing a notorious dinker in our area, I was determined to not suffer through three-hour dink fests by dinking back. In that dinker match he hurt himself diving for a drop shot and so I was spared the pain of a three hour dink fest when he retired. But that experience and watching a female friend engage in epic three-hour dink fests when she ran into other dinkers made me determined to develop weapons and strategies to avoid that boring nonsense.

    My wife and I also hit for fun and she's the perfect dinker-bot for 3.0/3.5 training. As a low-mid level player it's easy to go for too much against her and give up just enough points to lose. Her only "weapon" is a wicked angled CC BH that's impossible to reach from the baseline. Knowing that it's easy to exploit her low pace, safe shots by using shot selection and court position to safely run her around. In fact, she's even developed her BH as a result of our play. For a while I would hit to her BH knowing where her shot was going and I'd close the net and hit an easy DTL winner. She then made me do drills with her so she could prefect a DTL winner off her BH. Now I'm hosed if I hit CC to her BH without pace or depth: she either hits a sharp angle CC which is nearly impossible to get or she goes safely DTL with a Djoker-like precision since it's low-pace mid-level tennis. I can't be in two places at once and so she just hits after I commit. Now I must hit harder CC to her BH to apply pressure so she must return CC or risk missing on the low percentage DTL shot against a high pace shot. Tennis: it's a study in Darwinism!
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2013
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  2. coaching32yrs

    coaching32yrs Semi-Pro

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    Luish: Go into the match with a game plan and play to the game plan. Don't think about winning/losing, playing a pusher, or get frustrated. Just play and focus on the game plan and what is happening. That being said you have to make adjustments to the game plan based on what is going on in the match. If you get emotional you cannot "see" what is going on and make the correct adjustments. When the match is over, win or lose, ask yourself 2 questions: what did I do well, what could I have done better. Work on what you need to do better. That is the key to winning- improvement. But you need an honest self-assessment.
     
    #52
  3. Ehh

    Ehh Banned

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    hit extreme topspin balls that bounce over the pusher's head.

    I love pushers and always play them this way. Pushers give me a nice high ball right in my strike zone, then I put as much topspin on the ball as possible and the ball will bounce over their head. They can't get their moonballs back deep when this happens as they will have to bunt the ball with an overhead grip, so you get a very easy putaway shot that doesn't have to be close to the lines, and even the fastest pusher won't reach it.

    Pushers just fall into my playstyle completely. Flat hitting ballbashers are a different story.
     
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  4. hawk eye

    hawk eye Hall of Fame

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    You only play pushing midgets, right? :)
     
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  5. goran_ace

    goran_ace Hall of Fame

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    There's a lot of good discussion in the last page of posts. If there's one thing to take away, I think this is the most important, and not just against pushers. You have to become more patient and be able wait for the right opportunity, also you have to learn how to create opportunities. Think in 2-3 shot combinations.

    Instead of thinking you need to aim closer to the lines, you need to start thinking about moving your opponent around the court to give you some room to hit the shot. Better players put themselves in a position to win by setting up the point. Novice players are impatient and go for shots they don't have.
     
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  6. sundaypunch

    sundaypunch Hall of Fame

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    You already know this, but much of tennis is about figuring out what the other player doesn't like, doing that, then repeat. He's probably asking why a fit player with good strokes can't keep the ball in the court.
     
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  7. ATP100

    ATP100 Professional

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    That guy is not a "pusher", just not very good.

    A true "pusher" doesn't miss easy shots like he did.
     
    #57
  8. Ehh

    Ehh Banned

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    Yeh, they're not that tall, about 6ft 2in or so. The ball still goes above their heads.

    Doubt I could get away with those tactics against a John Isner-sized person though.
     
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  9. Topspin Shot

    Topspin Shot Legend

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    Let me let you in to a little secret of the game. Playing a point is like dribbling a basketball. If you're missing 1/3, 1/4 shots, there is something seriously wrong with the way you're playing. You may have stroke issues, which you probably do, but more likely than not, you're simply overhitting. To a certain extent, all the top players are pushers. They will not attempt shots they can't make 9/10 times or better, unless they're hitting a first serve or attempting a passing shot. For Federer, that shot might be an 80 mph forehand with 2,500 RPMs of topspin. He has hit a million balls and has perfect technique and footwork. For you, that ball might be a 50 mph forehand with much less spin and hit much less closer to the lines. You haven't hit a million balls and do not have perfect footwork. Simply put, the pusher is the one playing the game the right way, not you. He doesn't attempt shots he knows he can't make every time, and you do. Ergo, he wins and you lose.
     
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  10. yemenmocha

    yemenmocha Professional

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    Great collection of advice above.

    Head to Head one time does NOT mean someone is a better player than you. Two players can play the same wide field of opponents and one does far better on the whole, yet has a head to head losing record to the player who did worse on the whole. One of my weaknesses is left-handed opponents with big serves because I've never had a lefty practice partner.

    Also, assuming this opponent is a true pusher, the probabilities of the net game should always win. The angles from volleys and unreturnability of overheads makes this so. If you're set up in the right position with the right serve & volley, or the right approach to volley or overhead, this strategy should win. If you can't serve well enough, approach well enough, volley well enough, or have a bad overhead - this won't work. You need those skills. It's just the nature of the dimensions of the court that even if someone has the fitness of Nadal (but a 4.0 set of strokes) they cannot push successfully against a proper net game.

    For practice I like the following. Drop hit game to 11. Twist: one person wins two points if an unforced error is made, and the other person wins two points if a point is finished at net. All others are worth one point. Take turns doing this with your practice partner. It creates a nice incentive to be the one role or the other.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2013
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  11. luishcorreia

    luishcorreia Professional

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    Thanks guys. I know that my main pain is the mental game. I do not have the patience to beat the pusher. But besides that, what I need is tactics, or patterns of play if you will, to beat a pusher.

    There are a million "how to beat a pusher" threads, and most of the advice is the same. And its always subjective.

    Lets talk tactics? Lets talk objectively?

    What works best? High topsin balls to them? Hit with no pace? Angles? Draw him to the net? There have been some tactics mentioned here.

    1) hit CC until you get a short ball and then hit it for a winner or behind them
    2) get them to the net
    3) serve and volley?
     
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  12. yemenmocha

    yemenmocha Professional

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    1. Try not to get into a "neutral" rallying situation in the first place. Serve & Volley forces an end to most points rather fast. Someone usually has to hit a winner or there's a forced error. On returns, do your best to take advantage right away on the return - as best you can with your abilities, and especially for second serves. Ideally this means an aggressive return that puts him in a bad spot, thereby making it a good moment for you to approach and volley, or maybe hit a second groundstroke to a wide open court for a winner. Run around backhands on the return. Feel free to go for more, because if you're not doing so well on a neutral basis by just getting the returns in, you might find yourself losing a lot of long points.

    2. Keep eyes open for opponent's weakness. Everyone has them.

    3. Athletic pushers can often run down the best of groundstrokes at the recreational level. Then the opponent starts going for more, and misses more. But the same isn't so for volleying. A good approach that forces a subpar pass can be volleyed away for a clean winner more easily. They can't run down the sharp angled 2nd volley. The court is too big and volleying with the angles & proximity to the net take away too much time.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2013
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  13. sundaypunch

    sundaypunch Hall of Fame

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    Very well put.

    Allen Fox touches on this in "Think to Win". Some of his points-

    -All tennis strategy can be boiled down to two categories - offense and defense. No one is purely offensive or defensive, but one will predominate.

    -To be an offensive player, you have to be able to regularly put away volleys and overheads. You can also hit winners from the baseline but this is hard to do this consistently.

    -The most common mistake for recreational players is to attempt to play an attacking game when they only have the tools to be defensive players.

    -For most players that think they are capable of playing offensive tennis, a good defensive player quickly shows them that they are not.

    -As a general rule, hit the ball as hard as you can as long as you can keep it in the court all the time. Unfortunately, at lower levels of the game this requires most people to hit the ball much easier than they like.



    Anyone that looks down on a pusher needs to pin the above info. on their refrigerator and look at it every day.
     
    #63
  14. luishcorreia

    luishcorreia Professional

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    I agree. Please note that i didn't said that the pusher was not a real tennis player, etc. the problem is my game. I hit fairly offensive ground strokes and i always try to be in control of the point. Maybe i need to play more defensively.
     
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  15. sundaypunch

    sundaypunch Hall of Fame

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    I am in the same position as you. I mostly lose because I go for too much and make too many mistakes.
     
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  16. 86golf

    86golf Semi-Pro

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    Lol.....yeah I guess division II tennis isn't up to the talk tennis standards.
     
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  17. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    Dude, just hit the ball deep into the corners and then drop shot a short reply.

    You are over thinking it.

    If you really are a hard hitter, a real pusher will be standing way behind the baseline, so this strategy requires zero energy.
     
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  18. Say Chi Sin Lo

    Say Chi Sin Lo Legend

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    OP wouldn't be in this section if s/he isn't over thinking it.

    Like all of us who spend our time here, breaking the game down to precise mathematical models that can account for numerous variables, such as wind and overcast days and how it affect ball RPM.
     
    #68
  19. ace_pace

    ace_pace Rookie

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    I dont understand how you are having so much trouble. Im assuming the guys a rec pusher not a 'professional' pusher. If he is a rec pusher then all you have to do is bring him to the net. He will be forced to hit slower, shorter balls in order to not hit the ball out. Then proceed to use the slow ball time to your advantage and position yourself well enough to hit a passing shot or lob whichever you prefer.

    If hes a professional pusher, then ur ****ed :).
     
    #69
  20. Lukhas

    Lukhas Legend

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    This is false. Very, very false. Nadal made a job out of hitting TS forehands to the backhand side of every right handed player he meets (and even lefties' FH for that matters). Don't you think Federer doesn't know that Nadal will hit 95% of his forehands to his backhand when on clay/slow high bouncing hard? He knows. He perfectly knows it. Does it changes anything? No, Nadal wins +90% anyway it it happens and both players let it happen.

    FYB video: variety is overrated. Like many things in tennis.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGo8oQfp4y0
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2013
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  21. Fuji

    Fuji Legend

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    I love playing pushers, it gives me a lot of time to help groove my strokes.

    I like to hit corners until I can go into net and put it away. Pretty much the exact same strategy.

    -Fuji
     
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  22. leroy_sunset

    leroy_sunset Rookie

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    Thanks for the advice. But honestly, in my post I said that I could have handled him had it not been for his effective serve return and my resulting mental collapse. I play pushers all the time. I am pretty accustomed to them. I hit with above-average pace and spin for my level and most of my opponents tend to retrieve by default. I take control of the point, dictate, and move those guys around until they make an error. I do hit winners, but usually I force errors. But this guy just didn't cough up the errors. That's fine, I think my offense is good enough to get the W anyway. I just need to figure out how to hold my service games more consistently against him.

    I understand how to work a point. I think the big thing was that I didn't come to net very often to put away his dinks (because I knew if I didn't put the ball away on the first shot, he would lob me, and I didn't want to expend too much energy running up and then back to cover a lob).

    By the way, coming to net is a pattern of play. I don't think there's any way to argue that. So is hitting behind. For instance, he would hit a higher-than-usual dink to my backhand, which I would run around for a forehand (in the ad court). I would then play the high percentage shot and pound his backhand crosscourt, a very safe pattern of play that usually gets me a lot of points. In fact, it's so effective that I don't even care if I see the opponent going that direction, I hit it there anyway because of the percentages. He was really good at anticipating that and dinking the ball back into play, fairly deep. I wasn't even able to volley those balls. It was a good defensive shot, totally reset the point, and if he hit it down the line at all then he was actually better off. I hit DTL behind him a few times to see if I could interrupt that, but he knew the percentages and covered the backhand corner most of the time. The guy was a great retriever, no doubt. He played well, disrupted my patterns, made me uncomfortable, got in my head. He beat me. I can handle that. But I'm playing him again in 5 days and I don't want that to happen again.

    My normal hitting partner for like 2 years was a retriever. He's in incredible shape, tenacious, runs for every ball. I would just run him like a dog at the park, toy with him, and then put the ball away. But the guy I played yesterday was probably one of the best pushers I have ever played. And by pusher, I mean to say "opponent with no offensive weapons." I hesitate to even call him a pusher because he was so good at it. He had really honed his game, especially his backhand, to simply dink the ball back over the net with some decent depth using my pace, or slice it back to my backhand if I gave him no pace. The only winners he hit were volleys at net. His best tool was his patience. I'm not going to beat him in the patience department. That's not my style. So I need to figure out another way.

    I think I am going to try two things: come to net more often, especially on my serve games. I can't really serve and volley (just messes with my serve timing too much) but I can put the ball into his backhand corner on the first shot and come to net. The other thing I can do (which I am hesitant to try) is hit the lower percentage shots more often (down the line). He's a percentage player, he's covering those crosscourt shots and dinking me to death, winning the war of attrition with my poor fitness and weak mental acumen. I just need to lower the pace on my DTL shots and not treat them like winners, but as a way to move him more and open up more court for crosscourt winners.

    So my gameplan:
    • make first serves, and 50% of the time hit well-placed approach shots to his dinky backhand and come to net
    • go DTL more often as a way of opening the crosscourt ball, try to hit behind him 1/3 of the time
     
    #72
  23. KenC

    KenC Professional

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    The only way to beat a pusher is be better than him. You have to be more athletic and hit better and harder.

    When I came back to tennis I immediately got a good coach to train me. One of the first things he did was institute the 50 ball rally drills. He would push me balls and I would have to hit 50 in a row or we reset and started over, without a break. Then over time I was able to hit 50 in rather hard and then he started making me hit targets, like a meter in from the baseline angle. First just everything to the backhand, then everything to the forehand, then ultimately alternate angles. All of this while never making a mistake. After I was able to handle the baseline like that, he then taught me attacking tennis.

    Do that and you will never lose to a pusher again.
     
    #73
  24. Shroud

    Shroud Hall of Fame

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    Lots of great thoughts here.

    My 2cents

    You said he got in your head and disrupted your patterns.

    What is your plan to do the same to him?

    I for one would pressure him and do what i could to make him uncomfortable. Own the net come in as much as you can. Sure he will pass and lob you but keep the pressure up and hit drop volleys and severe angles.

    Learn to serve and volley ( if sv messes up your serve then work on your serve - honestly I think something is wrong if a forward toss is hurting your serve). Mix up your spins on the serve.

    Play a few games returning his serve just behind the service line or at least on 2nd serves and see what happens. Chip and charge and or hit big loopy approach shots. My hunch is that you will get some double faults or floaters that you can put away. Get him to question his whole dinky game.

    The whole point is to pressure him and make HIM uncomfortable.

    Oh and dont give him the satisfaction of seeing you get pissed at yourself...
     
    #74
  25. maxpotapov

    maxpotapov Hall of Fame

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    Yep, resistance is futile!
    Excellent post about Nadal making job out of simple/dumb brute force tactics.
    Not everyone can play (or watch) such boring game, so find yourself a more exciting opponent ;)
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2013
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  26. Dimcorner

    Dimcorner Professional

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    What works for me is a very topspinny loopy shot (mostly to backhand) followed by either a drop or a short underspin to the other side. I do this combo about 80% of the time with some flat shots to vary it.

    If you do a loopy shot with lots of top spin they have 2 options, either take it in the air or let it bounce and hit it from the back fence. Either shot is not an easy shot to place back correctly with a push. At this point you should be looking to move in. I actually think I have a good overhead so moving in for me feels very natural. On the drop shot (once they are way back there there) it's harder to lob back since the court is so much smaller now and not may people practice a lob from the net :)
     
    #76
  27. leroy_sunset

    leroy_sunset Rookie

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    That's the plan. He's a very cool customer, I only heard him mutter to himself twice the entire match. I need to disrupt his patterns, and I think coming in after putting pressure on his dinky backhand might do the trick. The guy has no pace. He can't really hurt me on that wing so long as I position myself properly. I plan to mostly cover the cross (highest percentage) and close the volleys rather than net camp (in case of lobs).

    It messes up my timing. I have a very fast motion, ala Almagro or Dolgopolov. I don't have a lot of room (or time) for error. I would need to work on S/V for weeks to even have a chance with that. I have 4 days.

    As for spin, I might try to mix it up. Pretty sure flat bombs won't phase him. I think I just need more placement variety - go wide on the deuce side, up the T on the ad side. I usually just serve to the backhand or body, and I have tuned my serves for that (because it works, even against the 4.0 guys I play with). Usually that results in a lot of short sitters that I can put away. I didn't get a lot of those against him, and that was unusual and quite honestly messed with me. I expected his returns to be as weak as his strokes, and I just mentally shut down when that didn't happen.

    I broke him 4 times, twice at love. His serve is consistent, but not a weapon. He did figure out that my 1st serve forehand return out wide is weak, kudos to him, but that's a dangerous game. If I get in position I can just put that up the line for a clean winner (pulled that a few times). I'm not scared of his serve, and his 2nd serve is very attackable.

    Hahahahaha. I wish. I'm pretty vocal on court. I think it helps me mentally clear, even if it charges up my opponent. I'm 28 and expect a lot out of myself because I know how good I can play. I usually only get vocal when my footwork is sloppy. I would say it's a tough race between fitness and mental strength for my weakest tennis trait. Usually, mental strength is my downfall. I might try to be the stoic Lendl robot someday and see if it works for me.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2013
    #77
  28. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    Yeah, half the people in here think they are big hitters who need poly strings to control the ball and they can't even beat pushers.

    Pushers exist to bring people back down to earth. That is my belief anyway.
     
    #78
  29. leroy_sunset

    leroy_sunset Rookie

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    Syn gut here, but you're on to something.

    Painful but true. I was expecting to go undefeated this year (hadn't lost in 2 months). Big ego check to get beaten by someone who has no offensive weapons.
     
    #79
  30. bad_call

    bad_call Legend

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    post of the day!!!
     
    #80
  31. user92626

    user92626 Legend

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    PP,

    Have yiou done any headcount to say "half the people..."? :)

    I think delusional people like the OP are rare and amusing. Evidently when they show up with their absurb claims, they tend to rile up posters and get pages and pages of responses. If they were common they wouldn't get this kind of attention.
     
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  32. spinorama

    spinorama Rookie

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    ^^^this.


    Here we are again in another "omg how to beat the mythical pusher" thread. Pushers are the best to play, because after 30 minutes your match is over and you walk away 6-0, 6-0.

    Corner shot, approach net, volley winner. Next point.
     
    #82
  33. therecanbeonlyone

    therecanbeonlyone New User

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    You'll have to come up with your own strategy based on your game and his. Try not to leave the court without exploring how he handles getting attacked in all 4 diminsions of the game. They are depth, angle, height, and time. One great thing about getting to the net is that you take away his time, you open up angles, and your depth of volley changes almost without even thinking about it.
    Based on your assessment of his weak slice backhand, I'd even try sneaking to the net off of a deep heavy topspin groundie to his BH that he'll think is just a rally ball.
     
    #83
  34. martini1

    martini1 Hall of Fame

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    Pushers also teach people that in tennis there is no style point. We see superstars with style, but in fact we only remembered the highlight reel shots.
    Pushers tell you if you cannot control and direct traffic, you cannot win the point. You need set ups.
    They are often so kind in reseting the point in play but don't kill you right away. They want you to force them out of position to win the point. If you can't they will just reset the point again for you to try again. How nice of them!
    But in return you just hit the ball harder without any game plan. You disappointed them but give the points away.
     
    #84
  35. luishcorreia

    luishcorreia Professional

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    I talked woth my coach about the match that gave origin to this thread, and he told me that we would work on it. Today i had practice and he just said that the practice would be playing a set with Jose Carlos, the baddest pusher in my club. Sometimes he is in my training class. This guy is the ultimate pusher. He is even ambidextrous . Besides high balls, he is also a slicer and a junk baller. I have played with him many times and almost never won. He is also a complete jurk.. Its all about mind games. When he's p he will towel off, drink some water, etc... It takes him about 3 minutes.,when you take 20 seconds he starts to mouth off about you taking a lot of time. H also celebrates your errors, in a very loud way. Besides that.. He is pain in tHe butt.

    Today ai wn a 6-3 set. I did nothing different. Between points my coach would give me some tIps about how yhw match is going..qnd the only tip he gave me was: play your game, forget about what the ther guy is dong. Hit the ball from low to high

    Thats what i did. Above all I kept my cobol, which is something i normally do not do

    .
     
    #85
  36. sureshs

    sureshs Bionic Poster

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    He is one bad dude
     
    #86
  37. spinorama

    spinorama Rookie

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    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2013
    #87
  38. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    I"m sympathetic.
    Pushers want to win more than you and I.
    They need to win in order to justify some need in their system.
    Possibly I would like to hit good shots, but the ultimate win or lose is not so important.
    Just a different philosophy applied to the same sport.
     
    #88
  39. user92626

    user92626 Legend

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    Check your logics, man. If you lose you aren't hitting good shots, and vice versa if you win that means you've been hitting good shots.
     
    #89
  40. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    Wrong there.
    Hitting good shots don't always equate to winning, and hitting bad shots don't always equate to losing.
    Consider the pusher.
    Now consider the big hitter.
    The pusher is hitting bad shots, right?
    Hitting good shots wins POINTS, not neccesarily matches.
     
    #90
  41. user92626

    user92626 Legend

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    Wrong, Leed

    pushers make good shots. big hitters make bad shots. pushers own big hitters.
     
    #91
  42. LeeD

    LeeD Bionic Poster

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    You're right.
    Pusher's own DelPo, Soderling, and Tsonga.
     
    #92
  43. comeback

    comeback Professional

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    Most pushers hit softly, or have good lobs..If you can't handle the middle of the court by either volleying or groundstroking balls to the corners..you will lose..And ultimately if you can't end the point with an overhead you will lose.
     
    #93
  44. Mick

    Mick Legend

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    #94
  45. Mick

    Mick Legend

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    ultimately, people who lose to pushers have unreliable weapons. they would hit one good shot and then make two or three bad shots. Whereas, people who regularly beat pushers have reliable weapons that the pushers have no answer for.
     
    #95
  46. VaporDude95

    VaporDude95 New User

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    Pushers don't like to be rushed. In a rally, oppose yourself over the pusher and slowly but steadily make your way into the net. I've beaten numerous pushers that way.
     
    #96
  47. luishcorreia

    luishcorreia Professional

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    Talked to my coach today and analyzed yesterday's match. At the end if the day you need to play your game. Ar the rec level (up to 4.5) just having someone say "go up to the net, hit drop-shots, etc" doesn't do you any good. S lot of people who aren't confit table at net will start going in every other point. You need to stay within your game. For me it was just "hit the ball with spin to the corners. I served we'll (my best shot) and also did a lot of my favorite ground ie: the down the line forehand. All things that I have in my game. No use using shots you do not have. Looking back now, u never felt uncomfortable playing this guy, and that's strange when you play a pusher. I was always within my game.
     
    #97
  48. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    I don't believe this. Unless it's a tournament, I play every match to work on some aspect of my game. I want that to improve, so even if I lose against someone, I will definitely have learned more than simply hitting a reliable ball into the center of the court just to get through the match. The point is that you're trying to turn what is currently an unreliable or at least prone to errors shot into one that you can rely on. Unless you practice it, it will never get better. If you do hit it, and that shot is definitely a higher quality ball that some dink from across the net, you're going to win. If you're still struggling with it, you're learning what to do differently next time.

    I think the biggest thing that people who are "pro pusher" don't realize is that people who go for shots COULD play passive tennis if they want to. Thing is, they don't. They want to be able to be aggressive and defensive when they need to be. It's about having fun vs. winning matches. Now obviously, complaining that you're better than someone who just beat you isn't quite right. But it's even worse to say that a pusher's shots are better just because you are still solidifying a higher quality ball. For once, I agree with LeeD, because the pusher is someone who just has a need to win rather than a need to be the best they can push themselves to be.
     
    #98
  49. pvaudio

    pvaudio Legend

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    Thank you for saying this. People lose to pushers because they simply play shots that they can't hit. If you're working on improving something, that's different entirely. If you're going for broke just to win the point.....yeah you're going to lose.
     
    #99
  50. Power Player

    Power Player Talk Tennis Guru

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    You need to learn to come to net at some point. Sitting back and base lining the entire time is a good way to lose a lot.

    If you can hit spin to corners, you need to learn to follow those shots and come to net. Obviously practice this stuff, dont just go for it in matches.

    But having no net game at all is easily exposed with drop shots and no pace from a savy opponent.
     

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