I have a coach, thanks

Discussion in 'Adult League & Tournament Talk' started by jc4.0, Jun 10, 2010.

  1. jc4.0

    jc4.0 Professional

    Joined:
    May 20, 2009
    Messages:
    803
    It's an annoying habit when someone constantly self-coaches, telling themselves after each and every shot what they "should have" done, as opposed to what they did do, which was make a lousy shot. (An occasional brief self-dialogue is okay, like, "move your feet!" or "get under the ball!") But one thing I don't need is for my partner to try to provide a tennis lesson for me, while we're playing a match. I have a coach who tells me all the time why I suck, and what I do well - plus I think each player should be paying attention to his own game and how he's playing, not focused on why I missed a low volley. Also - this partner-coach is generally someone who is not a better player than me, and generally the "advice" is either painfully obvious, or nonsensical. While these comments are well-meant as constructive criticism, I normally respond with a curt "sorry, this is a no coaching zone". Am I just a big crab?
     
    #1
  2. spot

    spot Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2005
    Messages:
    2,438
    Location:
    Atlanta
    You are just a big crab.
     
    #2
  3. jc4.0

    jc4.0 Professional

    Joined:
    May 20, 2009
    Messages:
    803
    So you're the one who thinks you know how everyone should play every ball, every point, and you're going to tell us about it ad nauseum? Maybe you should become a coach. (of course that would only work if you could find anyone to pay you $50- $60 an hour for the privilege). Doubt it....
     
    #3
  4. Chris Rizutto

    Chris Rizutto Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2010
    Messages:
    373
    Tell him to shut your yapper. Get a new doubles partner to.
     
    #4
  5. Ajtat411

    Ajtat411 Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2009
    Messages:
    591
    I usually find that giving this advice in a game is a mixed bag. Usually when I see something really obvious I tell them and they agree but continue to do it. I just say it once and if they continue to do it then I just say "nice try" and move on. If I'm the weaker player, I never say anything but "nice try". If I'm the stronger player (i.e. combo leagues), I'll say something. But this is with people that I know and we have a understanding that we can communicate freely. If they don't want the advice they will tell me or ignore me.

    Many people don't like to be given advice unless they pay for it, but for me if it's good advice I will listen but if it's bad advice I just ignore them and say thanks.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2010
    #5
  6. SuperDuy

    SuperDuy Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2009
    Messages:
    2,518
    I do this when I have partner not as good.
     
    #6
  7. polski

    polski Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    May 27, 2010
    Messages:
    633
    Location:
    Florida
    I tend to be an on court coach to my partner, but more on strategy. I usually understand their strengths and limitations so it becomes more of:
    - cover the alley on my wide second serve
    - cover the middle when i go down the T
    - step inside the baseline against that kick serve
    - return down the line to him/her

    I hope I'm not irritating. I just like to play with some strategy.
     
    #7
  8. mlktennis

    mlktennis Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2009
    Messages:
    418


    how is this comment usually taken? Do they stop? Do they just think ur joking? do they not talk the rest of the match?

    Just wondering b/c I have come to hate mid match coaching tips unless you are much much better than me.
     
    #8
  9. JT_2eighty

    JT_2eighty Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2009
    Messages:
    2,477
    The key to doubles is to have a partner that is on the same page as you. Someone that gets along with you, so that you each can discuss what to do between points or games, without it coming off as "coaching."

    To be successful in doubles, you must communicate with your partner, but if they have a chip on their shoulder and think anything spoken outloud is "coaching," then already you are at a disadvantage. Now, if the guy is completely one-sided, saying "you do this", "you should do that", then that is no good.

    I think it's all about delivery, which again comes back to my original point: you need someone on your wavelength so that your conversations on court are simply the two of you pumping each other up, staying positive, and strategizing together. As soon as it becomes them telling you what to do, or vice versa, you will both unravel. But, if both of your are completely non-communicative and silent throughout the match, it's just as bad IMO.
     
    #9
  10. aceX

    aceX Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    May 14, 2010
    Messages:
    2,906
    Location:
    In position
    I hate the low-on-skill-high-on-opinion doubles parner
     
    #10
  11. tennis tom

    tennis tom Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2007
    Messages:
    2,736
    An article in a tennis magazine I read a long time ago said a good doubles team communicats 83 times during a match...er...maybe it was 86 times...ok, let's compromise on 84 1/2 times. I don't recall in how many sets...I read the article a long time ago, sorry. I find I play better when I shut-up.
     
    #11
  12. HunterST

    HunterST Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Messages:
    3,412
    I also hate people that try to give advice to their partner. It just communicates "I'm way better than you." If the team is losing it also implies that you (the receiver of the advice) is the one blowing the match.

    As someone said, communication is important for good teams, but communication is very different from providing instructions to your partner. Saying "maybe we should start both back on this guys serve" is way different than "you need to bend your knees more on that shot."
     
    #12
  13. Cindysphinx

    Cindysphinx G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    15,070
    I also don't like being interrogated. I have one lady who will ask me "what happened" if I hit a bad shot or whatever. Like, one time I hit a passing shot that was way too high over the net when we were set point down, and the opponent hit a high volley winner. I didn't appreciate being asked "What happened?" What happened was that I didn't hit the ball the way I intended. Sheez.

    Tonight, I did it to someone else, though. My partner hit a wide ball, and the net strap blocked my view of where her shot landed. So I turned to her and said, "What happened?" As in "Did we win that point?" Apparently, the shot had indeed gone out, so she took my question to mean, "What the hell is wrong with you that caused you to miss?"

    I could tell by the look on her face that my question had been misinterpreted, so I took care to explain myself. All was forgiven, I think.
     
    #13
  14. Off The Wall

    Off The Wall Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2007
    Messages:
    484
    No, you are not. Your partner needs to ignore your technique and think doubles.
     
    #14
  15. larry10s

    larry10s Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2008
    Messages:
    3,976
    during a match is not the time to point out you should bend your knees, turn your shoulders etc. to your partner.ive found most people dont like it when a "peer" tells them what to do.my comments durimg matches are more like "nice try" you were there" you'll get the next one" etc.
    if you play with someone you drill and/or take lessons with and you want the feedback thats different.
    i had (still do it some times:cry:) a bad habit of not getting sideways enough when hitting an overhead. i would tell my partner before the match started if a lob went up and i was going for an overhead it was ok to say sideways as i was going to the ball. thats about all the technical coaching i want on the court. we can talk tactics all day no problem
     
    #15
  16. dmsick

    dmsick New User

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2010
    Messages:
    17
    If you're not a teaching pro and you're coaching your partner, you're probably annoying. I don't think anyone really likes to be told how to play by their partner unless they're playing with a pro.
     
    #16
  17. slewisoh

    slewisoh Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2006
    Messages:
    468
    Yikes! I can't imagine giving someone technical advice - on or off the court.

    I will, however, talk strategy all day. If I know someone's game really well, I'll tell my partner what has been effective against them in the past. And in the course of a match, I'll make suggestions about how to attack or counter what our opponents are doing.

    If someone isn'y willing to have strategy discussions, I question what they are doing on a doubles court. Unless they have telepathic abilities :)...
     
    #17
  18. spot

    spot Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2005
    Messages:
    2,438
    Location:
    Atlanta
    If I am doing something dumb on the court and there isn't a coach on the sidelines who can talk to me then I'll talk to myself about what I am doing wrong. If my partner sees what I am doing and offers constructive criticism then maybe I'll take their advice and maybe I won't but I'm certainly open to hearing their ideas.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2010
    #18
  19. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2007
    Messages:
    12,334
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Awesome! I think I am going to borrow/steal/hornswoggle that term from you.

    J
     
    #19
  20. J011yroger

    J011yroger G.O.A.T.

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2007
    Messages:
    12,334
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    For the record, my dubs partner and I talk between every point on serve, and usually a couple words, and a fist bump between returns. I don't like signaling, so we just talk over whatever, only takes a few seconds, and makes sure we are on the same page.

    Whenever my partner misses a ball, all I do is stay positive, and do my best to let him know that I don't care that he missed, and we are on to the next point, so leave it behind.

    After we play a match (like a day or two after) we talk about what we need to work on, weaknesses to shore up, and strengths to leverage more in the future. What drills we need to do and who would make a good practice team for us to play against.

    J
     
    #20
  21. larry10s

    larry10s Hall of Fame

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2008
    Messages:
    3,976
    when i was playing 2-3 years i did alot of on court coaching because "i knew so much" but couldnt play a lick. thats how i know from personal experience it doesnt go over very well.
     
    #21
  22. LuckyR

    LuckyR Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2006
    Messages:
    6,404
    Location:
    The Great NW
    I hear you. The correct goal of the partner (yourself inlcuded) is to make the team as successful as possible that day. It is the rare personality who likes this "coaching" so it is rare that it will accomplish anything other than pi55ing you off.

    By the same token, since you are his partner, you need to avoid going off on the guy since it will similarly disrupt the team. Between matches you need to school the guy on how to be helpful. During the match you need to look at your own personality and decide to either ignore him (if your Mental game can handle it) or quickly, politely get him to stop if you can't handle it. Your choice.
     
    #22
  23. cmb

    cmb Semi-Pro

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2005
    Messages:
    790
    I agree with the OP. Its rather annoying when 3.5 hacks are dishing out advice on the doubles court. Everyone wants to tell someone else how to do it. Its part of the I know more then u attitude. It pisses me off too!
     
    #23
  24. NLBwell

    NLBwell Legend

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2004
    Messages:
    7,128
    Nothing wrong with them coaching you - if you say it is OK. Discuss issues like this before you play.
    "I don't ever want your help, it distracts me."
    "Let me know if I'm doing something obviously wrong (that's fixable during the match - not "you need a whole new service motion")."
    "Coach me on anything you can think of." (I've had combo mixed partners ask this of me - never a guy at a similar level)
    Expect your partner to abide by whatever you agree to.
     
    #24
  25. mauricem

    mauricem Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2007
    Messages:
    129
    I find it hard to keep my mouth shut sometimes:oops:. If my partner is consistently making the same error in an important match and its obvious to even a hack like me then I'll say something but try to frame it in + terms.

    But that's pretty rare as I try and avoid playing with people like that.:-?
    What I do find fairly common is a doubles partner with good strokes but poor strategy, eg a good young singles player filling in in our doubles team but still trying to play a baseline singles game. Then I'll suggest that he come forward, dont let the ball bounce etc.

    Maybe I shouldn't say anything, I know I've had "advice" from some people in the past that has driven me nuts but equally if I'm having a bad day I'll sometimes ask a partner I respect if they can see what I'm doing wrong.

    As an aside I'll often look at video posts here at tt and try and look for faults etc before reading the pros assessment and over time I think Ive improved quite a bit at picking errors and improvement strategies that align with more qualified opinions
     
    #25
  26. burosky

    burosky Professional

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2006
    Messages:
    1,035
    Location:
    CA
    I think the key word here is "coaching". Not many people appreciate this during a match specially if they feel the person giving the coaching is either at the same or lower level than them.

    Perhaps the trick is using the right approach in a sense that instead of it coming across as coaching make it come across as strategizing. For instance, instead of saying "you need to go to the net, say something like "we need to get to the net".
     
    #26
  27. jc4.0

    jc4.0 Professional

    Joined:
    May 20, 2009
    Messages:
    803
    I don't mind someone occasionally giving me some advice, if they're a much better player than me, and it's done in a helpful manner - but when someone on my level or lower constantly reviews and analyses every missed shot, it's too much.

    One time though, I played this woman in a singles league match and she whacked me so handily that I had to ask, "how did you beat me so badly?" She proceeded to tell me in great detail how she took advantage of my specific weaknesses, and what she did to counter my strengths (which obviously weren't equal to hers). At first I was a little miffed, but later realized she'd done me a favor. And hey, I asked for it!!
     
    #27

Share This Page