I Have Elbows Made Of Steel

Discussion in 'Health & Fitness' started by ttwarrior1, May 8, 2005.

  1. ttwarrior1

    ttwarrior1 Professional

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    ok i was having elbow trouble from being a lifter , tennis player and semi pro football player. I was desparate, then found an article from first mr olympia larry scott about blood flowing to heel . I did this for 4 days in a row, for about 2 weeks and it worked.

    The key to heeling is fresh blood flowing through your injured elbow.
    Do tricep pushdowns. I used a different grip each day. I would do one arm pushdowns with my elbows tucked at the sides on monday.
    Next day i would do v bar, next day straight bar and next day I would find a pain free exercise like overhead extensions . After you lift take an asprin and ice your elbows.

    I then took friday-sun off and did this the next week. I know have elbows that feel great.

    HERE IS THE KEY- YOU MUST USE SUPER SLOW REPETITIONS, NO OTHER LIFING. DO 6 UP AND 6 DOWN AND HOLD IT AT THE BOTTOM FOR A FEW SECONDS AFTER THE LAST REP . GO EVEN SLOWER ON THE NEGATIVE IF YOU CAN.

    I could normally with good elbows do the entire stack with one arm which is 150 pounds for 6 reps when powerlifting , to give you an idea of what weight you should use.

    Start with the lowest weight and do around 6 reps doing 6 up and down and pyramid until you have done around 4 or 5 sets and you can no longer go up in weight and do 6 reps.

    Ive given this advice to don mattingly, scott rolen, kevin hardy, walter mccarty, tony delk, . I was also on the house of pain ironshow to teach about this technique and so far ive had 100 percent success rate. Give it a try
     
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  2. ttwarrior1

    ttwarrior1 Professional

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    no comments, very interesting. Its a shame people on here wont try this. It works for thd knees and shoulder as well with leg extensions and slow dumbell front raises for the shoulder
     
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  3. Craig Sheppard

    Craig Sheppard Hall of Fame

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    hey tt, i don't read this forum as much as the others... What type of elbow trouble did you have? I assume tennis elbow... Do you know if this works for golfer's elbow as well as tennis elbow?

    So w/ the amount of weight--you were using as much as you could lift? Logic tells me if you have an injury you should use just enough to not feel any pain. Using more would seem to be hurting yourself,...
     
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  4. ttwarrior1

    ttwarrior1 Professional

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    yes but for healing you need to use even lighter and slower rep speed to gorge the area with blood. Not sure what the elbow injury was. It hurt on the inside bottom. Im sure it will work. Leaving it alone does nothing but make it come back later most of the time.
     
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  5. hifi heretic

    hifi heretic Rookie

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    If increasing blood flow to the area is the key, then why take the aspirin and ice the joint? ..Both of these treatments are (I think I have the right term here..) vasoconstrictive - they work to "reduce" blood flow to the area.

    Before resorting to surgery to my right elbow for TE, I received about 12 prolo-therapy shots which are intended to also increase blood flow to the injured tendon attachment. These are essentially injections of sugar water meant to "irritate" the injured site so as to bring more blood (basically cause an inflamatory response). After receiving these shots (from an orthopaedist) I was told NOT to ice the joint. Man, they hurt like hell. Unfortunately, in my case they were compeletly ineffective. I elected to have arthroscopic surgery last September, and I'm now finally able to play pain free (currently play twice/ week).

    However I do agree with your premise - that tennis elbow is an injury that persists because of inadequate blood flow to the injury. ..Contrary to popular believe (including some sports-medicine docs who should know better) tennis-elbow is NOT tendonitis (def. as "chronic swelling of a tendon), but rather it is "tendonosis" which is defined as a damaged tendon that has a diminished capacity to repair/heal due to persistant use.
     
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  6. SC in MA

    SC in MA Semi-Pro

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    What's a tricep pushdown? And what kind of equipment do you need to do them? Thanks.
     
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  7. Marius_Hancu

    Marius_Hancu G.O.A.T.

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  8. Marius_Hancu

    Marius_Hancu G.O.A.T.

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    My prescription is clear: any weight-lifting exercise when recovering from TE must follow these guidelines:

    Do you have pain when you do the flexibility exercises at:
    http://www.nismat.org/ptcor/tennis_elbow

    Only if the answer is negative should you proceed to this:

    Do you have pain when you do the exercises here
    http://www.tennislovers.com/index2.htm?Content/elbow4.htm
    with light weights, say 3lbs, say 3 series of
    up to 20 each?

    Only if the answer is negative to both of the above should you proceed with tennis and other weighlifting routines, such as the ones described here. And you should back off at any time pain reappears.

    Thus a much more iterative approach than the one by the OP.
     
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  9. ttwarrior1

    ttwarrior1 Professional

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    remember when doing the pushdowns the slow rep speed is the key
     
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  10. Craig Sheppard

    Craig Sheppard Hall of Fame

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    ttwarrior, wondering if you know or not: Do you get more of a "pump" by doing reps REALLY slowly like you suggest, or is it really dependent on the weight? I mean, if you went really slow w/ lower weight would you get better results than going at a normal speed w/ higher weight?
     
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  11. ttwarrior1

    ttwarrior1 Professional

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    yes i get a tremendous pump , especially if i do drop sets, which is taking weight off and keep going. But when trying to heal im not really going for the pump. I can tell when doing the lift how i can go slower or faster on certain parts of the lift to work closer to the elbow.
     
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  12. Marius_Hancu

    Marius_Hancu G.O.A.T.

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    that's reasonable, of course.
     
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  13. ttwarrior1

    ttwarrior1 Professional

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    thought i would bump a cool post just in case
     
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  14. chess9

    chess9 Hall of Fame

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    Nice post, TT, and Marius. I've dreaded the thought of TE, so I wore a full elbow brace during cold winter play to keep the joint warm. So far, no issues. I lift quite a bit, but will try TT's approach as a preventitive measure as well. I can just add some of those to my lifting routine this season, right?

    -Robert
    ________
    HairyBerry
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2011
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  15. courtrage

    courtrage Semi-Pro

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    i think thats to get rid of the pain. i've recently decided that taking anti-inflamorties might not be a good thing cause it keeps the body for doing its thing to heal the area...
     
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  16. heycal

    heycal Hall of Fame

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    I thought it was the opposite, that icing your arm brings blood flowing to the area.
     
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  17. I don't know about the leg extensions working for bad knees. I can do toe press 250 pounds fine 16 reps, 3 sets, but I can't do without pain a couple sets of leg extensions at 30 pounds. Was going to try taking ibuprofen before/after(?) lifting. But you're saying that no other listing should be performed besides your specific lifts? I'm not sure about that since I can do the toe press with no pain on the knees, which don't move during the lifting, but I can't do a simple weight in leg extensions. But I can try your recommendation to do only leg extensions after I take a couple of days off of lifting, 6 reps, 4-5 sets, starting at 10 pounds.
     
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  18. Midlife crisis

    Midlife crisis Hall of Fame

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    While much of what ttwarrior says is not supported by medical evidence, leg extensions are a good thing to do for achy knees. In many instances, pain under the kneecap is caused by poor tracking of the kneecap as the knee flexes. Many of these instances are caused by an imbalance in the muscle groups which stabilize the kneecap. The leg extensions help with this imbalance.

    I've had achy knees for many years, both from years of heavy lifting, running, cycling, and tennis. When my knees start to hurt, I know I need to do more leg extensions, even if they do hurt initially. I'm not going to say you should push through the pain, but I will do them to the point of mild discomfort, using a light weight and many reps (like 50). By the time I have built up leg extensions to about a fourth or a fifth of what I can leg press, my knees are usually pretty ache free.
     
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  19. Thanks for the suggestion; I'll try doing a light weight at 50 reps, but it'll probably have to be about 10 pounds. I actually have Osgood-Schlatter's Disease, which is basically inflamation, tenderness, swelling, and pain.
     
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  20. Midlife crisis

    Midlife crisis Hall of Fame

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    I'm not familiar with Osgood-Schlatter's disease, so the best suggestion may be to consult your physician before starting these leg extensions. You definitely don't want to be doing more damage than good.
     
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  21. Ulam

    Ulam Rookie

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    I'm sure I have TE. I feel pain in the beginning of hitting but once my arm is warm it feels better. However, I have limited elbow bend. There is something that is hard that is stuck between the joints. Will an mri be the proper tool to see what it is? I tried x-ray but it isn't detailed enough. All am doing now is getting a good warm before I play which seems to work. I think those exercises might remove the pain.
     
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  22. Marius_Hancu

    Marius_Hancu G.O.A.T.

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    You may try them, but if the pain increases during and on the day after, stop.

    From my experience the only way out is rest, then restart strengthening the area.

    check my signature here:

    Great fitness sites
    http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=33800

    esp the Elbow and Wrist Pain sections
     
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  23. ttwarrior1

    ttwarrior1 Professional

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    the key is the warming up and pyramding up in weight and the slow rep speed. I dont mean just powerlift , or do it like everyone else does
     
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  24. byealmeens

    byealmeens Semi-Pro

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    Marius - How do you get to the exercises in part II above (with light weights)? I get to the site, but no further.... I must be doing something wrong.
     
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  25. ttwarrior1

    ttwarrior1 Professional

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    i dont like exercises and what physical therapists recommend
     
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  26. pached

    pached New User

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    Physical therapists are trained professionals so they know what they're talking about. It would be wise to follow their advice.
     
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  27. ttwarrior1

    ttwarrior1 Professional

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    i bet you think isiah thomas knows what he is doing also. Just because your a pro or trained doesnt mean you know what your doing. I dont think rehab speciailist rehab shoulders and knees the way they should..


    Next week experts will say margirine is better than butter. Vitamin E is bad for us and that carbs still dont turn to fat. ;rolleyes:
     
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  28. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    TT is right weight training is the key to health,I have trained for years+it works magic for your joints.I had te bad 15 years ago from hitting tennis ball incorrectly+a lot of flyfishing.It took 3 months to heal.If you have it bad you cant weight lift,at least i couldnt.In those days i would only train in the winter+take the summers off.Now i weight lift all year so i can play tennis everyday.Three days a week i do a wrist+forearm workout just to prevent te.I will try the pressdowns he suggests.I am 50 years old play tennis 6 days a week.I use a babolat pure control, which is a pretty stiff racket,but out of all the rackets i have tried nothing plays as good.I use nat. gut at 48lbs+ with this racket it has great control.I use extreme western grip with a lot of wrist+windshieldwiper motion.I know this is supposed to be bad news for arm,but i developed this style before i heard all these bad reports on babolats+excessive wrist action.Sometimes i feel a little elbow pain but nothing real bad.The key is weight lifting,a lot of times when i do my first set of reverse curls i will feel a little discomfort in my elbow,but by the second set it vanishes.This supports the blood flow theory.I also train the legs back chest+arms.And i am talking about competitive singles play,not standing around in doubles.The key is weight training before you have injuries not after.If you get te bad it is impossible to do a forearm workout,+ it will make it worse.When i had te bad i couldnt even do bicep curls let alone reverse curls,the pain was to much to take.
     
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  29. Max8950

    Max8950 Guest

    TT is right on. I went to physical therapy for my shoulder and elbow last year. I did some good exercises but did not work the areas with enough weight to make an impact. I have been doing tricep pushdowns just like TT said and it works great. I still get a beneifit while also doing different body parts but maybe thats just me. Better mechanics on your strokes helps a lot too. Remember Physical therapists like all professional graduate in a class with their peers. Someone graduates number one in their class someone is dead last. When you go to a PT do you ask them for their transcripts? If you dont, I wouldnt just blindly trust them because they are a professional.

    Max
    4.5
    PK Redondo Wilson NXT 16 @ 57
     
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  30. PowerServe

    PowerServe New User

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    TT's advice is sound, but only to an extend. Whether the intention is there or not, it seems people are being lead to believe that as SOON as they think they have tennis elbow or some sort of knee problem, the simple cure is to hop down and perform a few slow, controlled push ups or extensions to increase the blood flow.

    He's right in the way that blood flow to an injured area heals. It's our body's natural response to surge healing agents via blood flow to an inflicted area. The problem arises when TOO MUCH healing agent is shuttled in. When this happens, these agents can and will be hardened into caclium deposits in and around the injured area.

    The hard thing you feel here could be calcuim deposits from an untreated injury, but an MRI will reveal the exact cause.

    Aspirin and ICE is used immediately after an injury to control and somewhat limit the immediate blood flow to the injured area. Our body's are Advanced Machines and WILL send more 'healing agent' than is necessary for immediate use. What 'hangs around' and isn't used by the body for healing purposes is in turn hardened into calcium deposits.

    Once the body's natural increased blood flow to the injured area is under control through icing, heat is used to slightly increase the flow of blood and to begin the healing process.

    So TT is right that heat will heal, but be careful not to let an injury be 'free and on its own' or it can cause problems.


    PServe
    www.TennisFitnessTips.com
     
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  31. Phil

    Phil Hall of Fame

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    This makes no sense...if the elbow is injured, just how can you expect to do tricep pushdowns. If it's REALLY injured, all you're doing is risking more serious or permanante damage. You don't LIFT WEIGHTS using an injured joint. But...if Larry Scott did it...it MUST work. Don't forget, he was a 'roided out bodybuilder, not a tennis player, so he could do those things.
     
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  32. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    This is true what phil is saying,if your elbow is hurt there is a good chance you cant lift or you could make it worse.When i had te bad i could do some lifting but nothing directly for the elbow.I didnt try pressdowns,but i know just bicep curls would bother my elbow.My advice is to work out so you dont get te.
     
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  33. ttwarrior1

    ttwarrior1 Professional

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    but anyone can do pushdowns with ten pounds, then pyramid up
     
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  34. scotus

    scotus Legend

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    Since this thread keeps popping back up, let me just say this.

    ttwarrior1's method may work in some cases, but it in no way will give you "elbows of steel." You don't have elbows of steel, unless you can wield a super stiff, super light racquet like PD strung with poly and kevlar at high tension for a long time and still not have an elbow issue.

    All I am saying is that whether this exercise regiment works or not, you still have to pay good attention to the equipment you choose and rest your arm while it needs resting.
     
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  35. hifi heretic

    hifi heretic Rookie

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    Yikes,

    ..I haven't read this whole thread but I believe I have the gist of what is being recommended. Having endured 4 years of hell battling TE, I must say that the "elbows of steel" recommendations border on irresponsible.

    If your elbow is hurting, do NOT head to the gym, the court, or even take ibuprofen or use ice. ...Let the body deal with the injury! Allow it to heal!!! ..Once the pain has totally subsided, resume tennis and working out. However, to avoid recurrance, I'd suggest working your way back up to your previous workload - both in terms of frequency of tennis (or working out) and in terms of time spent on the court (or reps/weight).
     
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  36. JediMindTrick

    JediMindTrick Professional

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    I think that aspirin actually dilates the blood vessels so it will increase the blood flow. But you are right about the ice.
     
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  37. hifi heretic

    hifi heretic Rookie

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    Hi Jedi,

    I'm not a doctor, so I can only weigh in with what i've been told.. The doctor who administered the prolotherapy shots sent me home with very strict instructions to NOT take any aspirin, ibuprofen, or alleve. In short, he told me that the swelling that the prolo shots would cause was - in the case of TE - productive in that it brings blood to the area. NSAIDS, he claimed, interfere with this process. ..How it does this, I'm unsure. I do seem to recall his use of the word "vasoconstrictive".

    Again, it is the opinion of an increasing number of researchers that TE is not tendonitis as there is little/no swelling. ..It is tendonosis, which is defined as tendons that are frayed, and damaged to the point where they no longer readily repair themselves. ..Efforts at reducing the bodies natural tendency to "shunt" blood to the damaged area (i.e., swelling) are counter-productive in treating TE.
     
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  38. Phil

    Phil Hall of Fame

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    Not if your elbow is shredded.
     
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  39. ttwarrior1

    ttwarrior1 Professional

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    what idiots are playing tennis with a shredding elbow. Plus if you can swing a racket. You can do pushdowns with lightest weight stack.

    Plus you'll get better at it each and everytime you do it and must do it the way i said . It also works for the knees and shoulders with leg extensions and slow side laterals and front raises for the shoulder
     
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  40. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    I know the benefits of weight training,i think you guys should listen to tts advice,i have been trying his pressdown recomendations+ so far elbows are feeling good.A lot of doctors are still in the stone ages when it comes to weight training.I have taken care of other injuries by training+ a lot of times you have to start really light+ work your way up,but usually i was able to heal my injuries this way. I do have concerns though if you have bad te ,if you wouldnt have to wait to lift until the pain is only mild.
     
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  41. ttwarrior1

    ttwarrior1 Professional

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    thought i would bump this because i trained 2 people last week that was supposed to go in for knee surgery. I asked them to come to the gym with me for 2 workouts and then see if you need surgery . They no longer will be having surgery on their knees.
     
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  42. ttwarrior1

    ttwarrior1 Professional

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    bump, lol./........
     
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  43. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    I'd try it, but fortunately, I never get injured :)
     
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  44. ttwarrior1

    ttwarrior1 Professional

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    i dont get injured hardly ever either now that i do superslow weight training and i even lift the weights slower before and days after a hard tennis match. Larry scott is right and i dont care what anyone else has to say about it
     
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  45. scotus

    scotus Legend

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    Why do you keep resurrecting this thread? Are you that attention-starved? It is time to let it go.
     
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  46. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    Bump... oops :oops:
     
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  47. ttwarrior1

    ttwarrior1 Professional

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    i keep resurrecting it because i see posts where people need help with their elbows and all the info i have in here is 100 percent correct
     
    #47
  48. npadreman

    npadreman New User

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    thanks... i'm giving it a try starting today
     
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  49. npadreman

    npadreman New User

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    day 3 and already feeling better... amazing, i thought i was gonna have to quit tennis...
     
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  50. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    You should apply for the job of Nadal's personal trainer :)
     
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