I Have Elbows Made Of Steel

Discussion in 'Health & Fitness' started by ttwarrior1, May 8, 2005.

  1. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    Is it a good idea when performing these triceps pushdowns to go less than 90 degrees (between upper arm and forearm) on the negative (up) motion?

    I always try and keep all my joints (and associated appendages) at 90 degrees (or greater) when working out with weight.
     
    #51
  2. Phil

    Phil Hall of Fame

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    I would reiterate what I said earlier in this thread (over a year ago?)-that your "advice", besides being irresponsible, is absurd.
     
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  3. tricky

    tricky Hall of Fame

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    Yeah, this technique actually works (though more as a preventive measure.)

    The superslow-style tricep pressdowns causes the muscles in that area to release lactic acid. The lactic acid in turn stimulates some collagen synthesis around the area, thereby improving strength of the ligaments and tendons.

    In general, if you're on a PL or true strength protocol like 5x5, you want to throw in a low weight, high rep burn set after your main work sets. This will improve tendon strength as you progressively load.

    In regards to tennis, it helps to frequently (i.e. 3x-a-week) do various pushdown and rotator cuff movements with an eye on feeling the burn. This will help you avoid problems later on in those areas.
     
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  4. Bud

    Bud Bionic Poster

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    I'll give it a try :)
     
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  5. ttwarrior1

    ttwarrior1 Professional

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    not sure if i mentioned it, but i would always ice and heat it before and after i would lift weights and i would sometimes use a different grip . Key is gorging the area with fresh blood without going really into your recovery ability. Your not doing this to build muscle really but to rehab the elbow.
    This also works for the knees with the leg extension
     
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  6. plasma

    plasma Banned

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    thats awesome man, it sounds like you're using wieghts therapeutically
     
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  7. akthe47

    akthe47 New User

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    I'll give this a try. I'm getting some initial signs of TE after switch to the Babolat PDR GT+. It was probably more that there was a newer tennis player we brought out in the group that was hitting like it was batting practice and I would actually hit outbound balls back to the other side. Bad idea.
     
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  8. akthe47

    akthe47 New User

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    So far it's working. I'm only 2 days in, but my elbow is already getting a lot better.

    I didn't use ice, though, as that does seem counterproductive towards achieving more blood flow (as others pointed out).

    Good stuff.
     
    #58
  9. plasma

    plasma Banned

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    scottus makes a great point, elbows of steel are genetic, or come from working with your hands all your life. The title should truly onyl go to those who can wield an APD and tee off with no soreness. I prefer theraband exercises for joint therapy and injury prevention. I like the nature of the resistance the theraband provides and how that directly relates to the resilient physiology needed in tennis.
     
    #59
  10. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    The Karma bus ran over me for this.

    I developed golfers elbow (pain on the inside of my elbow) from lifting too heavy on tricep exercises (specifically, close-grip bench presses and dumbbell tricep extensions). Generally speaking, you have to watch going too heavy on triceps because your elbows can't take it. I got a little "cocky" and paid the price.

    I basically did what the OP suggested and the pain is 95% gone. I will continue until it is gone and into the future as a preventive measure as many have suggested.

    The only change I made is, instead of doing tricep pushdowns in the gym, I simulated that by pressing against my off hand (or the wall or a desk) and letting that provide the resistance. The advantages I found to this were:

    1) I could do it anywhere at anytime

    2) I could vary the resistance at different points in the movement based on pain feedback

    3) I could do the movement up / down and side / side, hitting the elbow from all angles.

    Anyway, I just wanted to thank the OP for posting and continuing to bump this over the years. If I had paid a physio hundreds of dollars for this treatment and got these results, I would have considered it money well spent.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2009
    #60
  11. Spinz

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    This worked for me.
     
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  12. 10ACE

    10ACE Professional

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    You my friend are 110% incorrect. This does work, and it's what my therapist have always done, sprained ankle, tweaked knee, etc. Get on the bike, and then incorporate lite lifts and movements. We are talking joints and ligaments here not something like a lower back.
     
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  13. mark999

    mark999 Rookie

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    i'm a believer. did the pulldowns for 2 weeks and have had significant improvement. i'm using 10 pound weights at present. should i go up in weight when i'm completely free of pain?
     
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  14. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    If you do, let me know how it works for you.

    I am still not completely free of pain after 3 weeks (buy it is significantly reduced).
     
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  15. Spinz

    Spinz New User

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    I'm doing this and I've gone up in weight. I also use all types of the bars so I can attack it from all angles. I can't believe how effective this is for general elbow maintenance! I can feel it working that area.

    One other thing I found out to protect the elbows is not to do anything over your head such as skull crushers.
     
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  16. OHBH

    OHBH Semi-Pro

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    how many sets per workout?
     
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  17. yemenmocha

    yemenmocha Professional

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    I get lots of tricep burn and warmth but nothing on the side of the elbow where the injury is.

    Is this normal?

    The only thing that warms up that area are the forearm exercises that I do, or bicep curls with high reps and low weight.
     
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  18. ttwarrior1

    ttwarrior1 Professional

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    bicep curls with light weight are great for warming up the elbows and yes generally the slow tricep pushdowns, if you don't feel blood rushing to the elbows then , i call it like a clog. Just keep doing it multiple days in a row and then you will continue to get better
     
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  19. mark999

    mark999 Rookie

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    ttwarrior1 - slow tricep pulldown question. is the palm of your hand facing up or down? when the palm is facing up, i feel a slight amount of pain doing the exercise, with palm facing down, no pain. which should i do, palm up seems to work the problem area better.
     
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  20. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    After 4 months I am 99% pain free. I still feel just the slightest bit of pain at the start of my morning workout if I start off with bench press / incline bench press. After a few warm-up sets, 100% pain free.

    I can't thank you enough TTwarrior1.
     
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  21. ttwarrior1

    ttwarrior1 Professional

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    oh no palm should be down, i do them with one hand, sometimes with a v bar, sometimes with a rope.


    here is something i do for chest. I warmup in the incline press, i then warmup in the pec deck or fly.
    I then do one set to failure in the fly and with very little rest. I will do one set to failure in the incline bench.
    This causes your chest to stimulate more instead of not being able to do another rep because your grip, wrist, or shoulders give out.
    People complain all the time when benching they feel it in their arms or front deltoids but not in their chest. This is because of wink links because the front delts and tricps are majorly involved.
    But if you pre exhaust your chest by doing pec deck to failure and then go to incline, You stimulate more chest muscle.

    This also works great for the legs. I warmup in the leg press. The warmup in the leg extension. Usually multiple light warmup sets followed by a moderately heavy set for 2 or 3 reps.
    I will then do one set to failure in the leg extension for 8 to 10 reps. Then i will walk over to the leg press and do one set to failure. Thats it. Hard work and intensity.
    I will then do one light set of leg curls and then one set to failure in the leg curl. one warmup set in the calf raise, then one set to failure around ten reps in the calf raise.

    For health id recommend a slower rep speed. For power id recommend 2 or 3 seconds up and down and for muscle building, i recommend about 4 seconds up and 4 seconds down.
     
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  22. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    FWIW, I worked it in all directions. Palms down, palms up, and side to side.

    It didn't seem to hurt my recovery (so no harm in doing this I think). In my case, I think it helped. I would feel a different stress / pain signal depending on which way I worked.

    I experimented a lot with ttwarrior's basic formula to find what seemed to work the best for me.
     
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  23. ttwarrior1

    ttwarrior1 Professional

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    i usually do warmup sets and then one set to failure where i can't do another rep . Sometimes I'll pyramid up in weight with no rest, and then back down with no rest. Also gets your cardio going.
     
    #73
  24. ttwarrior1

    ttwarrior1 Professional

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    bumping my old threat
     
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  25. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    ^^ I think it is very nice of you to do this. I think you have been flamed a few times in this thread and I am glad you aren't letting that stop you from sharing this with as many others as you can.

    As I said earlier, this basic formula worked for my "golfers elbow" (pain on the inside of my elbow). I modified it a bit based upon trial and error and feedback I received from my body, but basically this works great at getting blood flowing to the injured area and thus aiding in recovery.

    Many, many thanks again ttwarrior1.
     
    #75
  26. Slazenger07

    Slazenger07 Banned

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    The OP probably had elbow problems to begin with from using cable pushdowns as a "powerlifting" exercise. This is not how this exercise is intended to be done.

    Lighter weight, harder contraction = stress off of your elbows on onto your triceps where it should be.
     
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  27. ttwarrior1

    ttwarrior1 Professional

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    yes adjusting the pushdowns angle is what worked for me as well. I did a different grip each workout and continue to now as well even though i have no pain now
     
    #77
  28. pyrokid

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    Pretty related, but when I had tennis elbow a few months ago (when I first ramped up the weight of my rackets a LOT) I did a bunch of tricep and regular pushups and it went totally away after about a week. It wasn't severe TE, though.

    I didn't post anything earlier about doing this because a few of my friends told me I must have been high when I suggested it, but it makes sense.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2010
    #78
  29. ttwarrior1

    ttwarrior1 Professional

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    im currently doing super slow lifting for every body part, awesome stuff and the mind control and toughness you can build is incredible
     
    #79
  30. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    I stated a long time ago that tt was on to something with his slow press down advice.
    I have been lifting for years+it is amazing how much it helps me prevent+relieve myself of injury's.

    It is also amazing how many people think that weight training can be a bad thing for rehabilitation. I thought these old wives' tales would have died a long time ago.

    I play tennis 6 days a week all year long at 54 years old.One of the biggest reasons i can do this is because of weight training.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2010
    #80
  31. r2473

    r2473 Legend

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    Old Wives' Tales
     
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  32. tlm

    tlm Legend

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    Okay r2473 i corrected that for you.
     
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  33. ttwarrior1

    ttwarrior1 Professional

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    bump............
     
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  34. ttwarrior1

    ttwarrior1 Professional

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    doing a super slow routine tommorrow, about 10 seconds up and ten down. Warmup sets and then one set to failure.
    One compound and one isolation exercise per body part.

    Pec deck, incline dumbell press, side lateral, rear delt fly, one row, pulldown, one bicep and one tricep exercise.

    Legs on thursday: 2 simple exercises. leg extension first , leg press 2nd.
     
    #84
  35. heycal

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    Does this super slow stuff actually work for building muscle, etc? Seems iffy to think one very slow set to failure with a light weight is going to produce equal or better results than 2 or 3 sets to failure using a much heavier weight and traditional reps.
     
    #85
  36. ttwarrior1

    ttwarrior1 Professional

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    Okay lets say you think your supposed to 3 do sets of a certain exercise. If 3 sets is good wouldn't a 4th be better????

    If 3 sets is correct then 2 sets is undertraining and 4 is overtraining???


    Sets have nothing to do with gaining muscle and strength . Its the rep and the way you do it.

    The stimulus responsible for increasing size and strength is the last rep of a set carried to failure if that last rep is progressive resistance or progressive overload, aka one more rep or heavier weight then the previous time you did that exercise.
     
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  37. ttwarrior1

    ttwarrior1 Professional

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    bump///////////
     
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  38. heycal

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    If this is so, would this mean there is no point in doing any more than one set of any exercise? Are people who do more than one set wasting their time?
     
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  39. mike53

    mike53 Professional

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    I almost always do multiple sets of any exercise. Mostly progressive sets, with each using a slightly higher weight and less reps, but there are a lot of ways to structure this. For me, the first set is a warmup
     
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  40. heycal

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    Well, sure, you may work out this way. But the question is, is it truly beneficial to do more than 1 set? I know this issue has been studied from time to time, but wonder if the question was ever settled.
     
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  41. mike53

    mike53 Professional

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    A lot of people used to ask question whether four sets of five reps was better than five sets of four reps or vice versa. I've done both and I really can't say. The problem with too much working up to a single rep maximum has always been injury. It's never beneficial to be injured no matter how good the program was that got you there.
     
    #91
  42. heycal

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    Let's keep it simple here: Is there any good evidence that more than 1 set of a given exercise is doing anything for you? If so, what is it doing?
     
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  43. HBK4life

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    I was having major elbow problems this summer. I stopped lifting heavy and switched to cords for awhile but still kept swimming everyday and my arm feels soooo much better. I was even able to go back to my Kevlar strings.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2010
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  44. ttwarrior1

    ttwarrior1 Professional

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    im back on my superslow routine of ten up and ten down and love it.
    A total upper body workout on monday and legs on thursday. Walk and bike 3 days a week
     
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  45. heycal

    heycal Hall of Fame

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    And does it work to build muscle, or at least maintain what you have?

    What is it again, lowering the weight and doing one set of 10 seconds up and 10 seconds down?
     
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  46. Tennisguy3000

    Tennisguy3000 Semi-Pro

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    Do you have any workouts/stretches or movements that you can do from your home? Thank you to everyone that contributed your time & posts to this thread.

    I do not want to let tennis elbow take away from the wonderful game of tennis. If anyone has any links to helpful information please share.

    Here is one from another post on this site that looks helpful http://drbenkim.com/elbow-forearm-wrist-exercises.htm

    Take Care,

    TG3
     
    #96
  47. charliefedererer

    charliefedererer Legend

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    Actual strengthening of the forearm muscles is much more important than any stretches.

    A lot of posters here have benefitted from using the Thera-Band Flexbar: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB3TVb8a5mk

    Dumbell wrist flexion, extension, pronation and supination exercises also build forearm strength. They are the last of the exercises in this series of thrower's ten exercises: http://www.asmi.org/SportsMed/throwing/thrower10.html (If you want to avoid shoulder problems as well, do all 10 exercises.)
     
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  48. ttwarrior1

    ttwarrior1 Professional

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    i don't believe in stretching unwarmed muscles. I prefer a warmup over a stretch.

    As far as building muscle, Id recommend about 4 up and 4 down . This is mainly getting a cardio and muscle building workout at the same time . Its also very intense.
     
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  49. ttwarrior1

    ttwarrior1 Professional

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    sorry for bumping any old post but i believe alot of current posts need to read the 1st post
     
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  50. Tennisguy3000

    Tennisguy3000 Semi-Pro

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    Came back to let you know that I have pretty much taken care of all of my tennis elbow problems with two devices that I bought & some warm up/light stretching.

    1) An elbow brace called Band It http://banditelbowbrace.com/

    2) The PracticeHit tennis trainer www.practicehit.com

    The elbow brace has two plastic pieces that hold your arm in place from both sides and seem to isolate your arm & reduce tearing. I have used other bands in the past but none that had such a positive impact on my elbow. I highly recommend this brace.

    The PraticeHit www.practicehit.com helped me to work on strengthening my arm on the off days that I don't make it to the courts (which is all too often these days :-( and I was also able to work on my form & watch videos with my laptop to correct my stroke technique (which helped my elbow & my game lol).

    The above two devices along with some gentle stretching & warm up movements before a game now have me pain free. I was getting worried for a while there & even started to look into the cost of surgery.

    Anyway, there is my update. Thanks for the links to the stretches & exercises, I really appreciate it. Hope your game & elbows are all doing great.

    Cheers,

    TG
     

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