I have the power of ESP. I can see the future of tennis strings.

Discussion in 'Strings' started by travlerajm, Jun 30, 2013.

  1. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    The forten thin blend is a best seller here at TW and the reviews were off the charts.....there are so many that I could not possibly fit them here....so here are a bunch I just copied .....like the first 10 or so.....I didn't even read through all of them.

    Forten thin blend :

    Comments: I think this is the best string I ever wanted. I used Ashway Crossfire for a long time, but this string gives more power, nice slice, nice sound and good feel. I strung it at 60 lbs and I love it. I will stick to this string from now on. Good job Forten. Please don't ever discontinue this string. I am a state champion and play at the 4.5 level.
    From: Armin, 11/14
    Comments: I had this in the Pure Drive Plus at around 55 lbs during the early 2000s. That was the only time I ever got tennis elbow. A few months later, I was fine using the Pure Drive again with a synthetic string. Something to beware of.
    From: BB, 7/14
    Comments: Turn your forehand into a howitzer with this string! Thin blend doesn't provide quite as much spin as some fresh poly (e.g. Tour Bite), but it's close. It feels better to than polys, isn't as rough on your elbow, holds tension better, and makes a loud crack when you hit a shot with pace. Because of the sound and feel, I can't go back to poly. A great string at any price level. 3.5, Volkl PB 10 Mid+ Forten Thin Blend strung at 51 mains/56 crosses.
    From: Sam, 4/14
    Comments: I loved it! It was simply amazing! Precise control and good pop! However I did string at 32 lbs in my 107 sq in head ProKennex. The sad new is it only lasted about 9 days tops. The kevlar broke but the crosses weren't notched at all.
    From: Randy, 2/14
    Comments: This string is sick! I feel like I could rip the cover of the ball on my forehand and my kick serve was insane. When it finally broke (approx 6 sets of heavy play) I used a backup racquet that had newly strung Luxilon and the Luxilon felt like nylon after using this Forten blend. Sorry Luxilon junkies, this string beats Luxilon hands downs.
    From: AC, 6/13
    Comments: This is now my favorite string. It has a great combination of control and feel. It seems like the ball stays on the strings longer and I'm getting a little extra spin on the ball compared to the Prince Pro Blend that used to be my favorite string. I play with a Head MicroGel Radical OS and string the crosses and mains at 60 lbs even though it's recommended to lower the tension on the mains. I have no problems with harshness, but the racquet has something to do with that. I string my own racquets and have experimented with all kinds of strings over the years. I've found that a good string on one racquet may not work as well on another. Some sticks, like the MicroGel, effectively absorb vibration, but sometimes the soft strings can result in lack of feel. This Forten string works well in this racquet, even at high tension. Your mileage may vary depending largely on the kind of racquet you use.
    From: John, 3/13
    Comments: I play 2-3 times a week regularly, and I must say, "awesome string indeed". I've been using this string since 2002, so it's been 10 years. At the beginning, I was having arm problems, however after I got used to it after several weeks of playing, arm problems were gone. I was thinking about switching to another string brand, but heck, I still found this setup is the best so far, and I'll probably give a second thought about switching to another brand. Durability is acceptable, it's low powered (no problem with that cause I'm capable of generating my own), awesome in the spin and control department, especially when I'm hitting short-spin up to the net. Overall, no complaints, very good budget string and do not underestimate the power of Jedi. Oh, I mean the power of Forten Thin Blend. Cheers
    From: Endy, 8/12
    Comments: I've been using Thin Blend since 2002. Never any arm problems and I am in my late 50's. Mainly in Head Radical Tours, then Ti Radicals, and now Pro Staff 100. String at the lower end of the tension range. Great bite, low power, yet good feel for soft shots.
    From: Rod, 5/12
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2014
  2. Sander001

    Sander001 Hall of Fame

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    Forten Aramid and Gamma Infinity aren't Kevlar. Kevlar is the brand of a specific aramid which made aramids popular. It's like calling all tissue Kleenex even though you may be using generic brand tissue. People do it all the time but it doesn't mean it's correct.

    Again: Gamma Infinity 16, Composition: Mains: Multifilament Resilyamid/Resilyalon (Aramid). Crosses: Elastalon center core and outer wraps (Synthetic Gut).
    Here's the link http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Gamma_Infinity_16_Natural_String/descpageACGAMMA-GI16.html

    Forten Aramid Gear, it's right in the name. Yeah there is Thin Blend, that's the only one that appears to be Kevlar but so is Pro Blend and it sucked. I already had a negative experience with Forten so I'm definitely sticking with Ashaway, but I may try it if you quit your whining and spamming.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2014
  3. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    so a Xerox machine is not a photocopier? Come on sanders ....your hatred is just pathetically transparent.

    You don't care about kevlar or "ESP" ....your a poly user,,,,,you don't even use Ashaway and have countles Posts stating how all kevlar sucks.....all you want to do is fight.

     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2014
  4. Sander001

    Sander001 Hall of Fame

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    A Xerox machine is a photocopier but not every photocopier is a Xerox machine. Par for the course that you are having issue with this simple concept.

    If i don't care about esp then why do i have one of my racquets set up that way? And it's setup with genuine Kevlar, not your knockoff no brand aramid. So i have actual reason to be in this thread while nearly all your posts here is bashing on Ashaway. You're just hating because people have come and set the record straight, embarrassing you so you're lashing out.
     
  5. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    Par for the course that you would bring up something so idiotic that absolutely no one else in the entire world cares about. So now somehow "kevlar" = Gucci and "aramid" = Kmart ?

    All this just to save yourself from admitting that your wrong. You said kevlar and aramid were different....it's time to eat your words Einstein .

    Show me one source that says aramid is not the same as kevlar....just one. In fact I have a challenge for you.....if you are right I'll stop posting on this thread forever but if you cannot find a source then you will stop posting on the thread for ever.

    And you don't have an racquet set up with esp....you have said you hate kevlar. Your just love to fight.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2014
  6. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    Yes. It's all the same thing.
     
  7. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    Funny how shrouds Ashaway gets sawed into by zyex....do you have magic Ashaway?
     
  8. Sander001

    Sander001 Hall of Fame

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    Kevlar is the brand, the specific manufacturer. It's like calling all cars Mercedes. Ash is the Mercedes but you're driving around in your Chevy saying it's the same thing. Sure they're both cars but I wouldn't substitute my car for yours. I'm happy with mine, but you're unhappy with yours trying to convince everybody to see it your way, arguing with everybody and spamming many threads.

    You don't even know what's in your racquet and you trying to tell me what I have or don't have? Hilarious. You even used my pictures and posted them around in different threads claiming them as your own. You're the one who's not even using an ESP set up, all your posts are just bashing on Ashaway because people who tried your recommendations came back and told you you're a clown and the only thing you could do was back track and say it was all Ashaway's fault, the Kevlar boogieman was out to get you.

    But all of this is way over your head, I mean you don't even know the difference between "your" and "you're" so this is all my fault because I need to set my expectations way lower. I'm not accustomed to communicating in your native form of communication, sock puppets. Maybe you can get your mom to read this and interpret it all for you.
     
  9. bigdaddyps

    bigdaddyps Rookie

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    Can u please use your extra sensory perception powers to get me the powerball numbers?
    Why waste it on something so petty as tennis strings??
    Things that make u go Hmmmmmmm....
     
  10. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    In other words you are wrong and cannot admit it.
     
  11. Sander001

    Sander001 Hall of Fame

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    still can't read

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Jacklondon00

    Jacklondon00 New User

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    I thought I share my recent experience on ESP. Having sold my Stringway a while back prior to moving, I had to go into a sports shop and I paid them so I could string my own racquet. Unfortunately, I had a problem with one of the clamps, every time I got to one of the outer mains on one side, this clamp would not lock, so I lost all the tension on that side. After redoing the mains 3 times, I gave up and simply continued after that happened, by redoing just the last few mains. I equalized the tension by pressing on all the mains to make sure both sides were even. I just put the crosses in 12 lb lower (should have done 20 lb) and decided I had enough, if it played bad it played bad.

    The Kev mains seemed snappy prior to hitting, but after just a few minutes they lost tension and stopped snapping back, moving all over the place. The racquet did not play well at all. Huge loss of control and spin.

    The lesson is, you really need to put the Kevlar mains at 10 lb to 15 lb higher tension than your crosses. For those who string the mains and the crosses at the same tension or just a few pounds difference, you are not getting anything out of this setup. This is not even taking the notching into account, after which even more tension is lost. Also, I read some were putting the crosses higher than the mains, and way above the elastic poly range of low 50's. I can't imagine this would ever play well.

    I know that the Dark Night is going post now about how bad Ashaway Kevlar is and how much tension it loses, etc. And he is right, there is a big drop in tension, but this can be mitigated by simply bumping the tension on the mains. After the strings settle I found the setup played great up until the end.

    With regards to other "Kevlars", I tried Gamma Fusion 19g, I was actually very hopeful about it because I found a local dealer who was willing to sell me lots of sets for dirt cheap, and it's super thin! But don't waste your time. The stuff gets stuck and does not snap back at all.

    I also tried Forten Thin Blend for mains, and the results were the same.

    I tried other brands, I don't remember which ones, but 3 or 4 others, all of them were twisted kevlar, none snapped back like Ashaway. It must me the braided structure, it has it's upsides and downsides.

    As much as I hate the idea of string savers, with my current string job being a dud, I was thinking of putting them in on the outside of the string bed just to bump up the tension, since Kevlar has near zero stretch, this might be one way to mitigate the tension loss. I would think it should only take 5 or 6 of them to do this.
     
  13. phanker

    phanker Rookie

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    Same thoughts here. The braided structure of Ashaway kevlar gives it better snap back and a softer feel too. It's likely the only arm-friendly kevlar out there for people with elbow issues. Just gotta compensate for the initial tension loss by pre-stretching and/or higher tension.
     
  14. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    :shock::shock::shock:

    Pearls of wisdom...next the Pope isnt Catholic . Einstein!
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2014
  15. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    Hey at least you tried it! Thats all i asked....You didnt like it and that is your absolute right!

    I have found different results but i actually string the opposite of travel......

    I string the forten super loose and the crosses super tight.

    As travel says the launch angle is much greater this way amd thats precisely why I do it.

    In doubles its a freaking killer....i can hit insane lobs over the net players at will....

    Secondly im not the fastest player and even if i can only barely get to the ball i can hit a winner from anywhere without having to swing hard.

    I call this the "reverse esp" and its a better set up for a slower player a doubles player or for someone whos technique is not the best......

    If however you want to rip the ball with topspin then travels traditionAl esp is the way to go for sure.
     
  16. Shroud

    Shroud Hall of Fame

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    So I strung up a brand new dunlop at 62/32lbs with 16g kevlar and zx pro.

    I loved it BUT there was one negative. It produced a PING that couldnt be tamed!

    UGH. I had run into some vibe conditions when I was messing with low tensions, and it seemed that at some tensions rackets became vibration machines. This was more of a ping not exactly vibrations.

    Any thoughts on how to get rid of this? Guessing it has to do with varying the tension. If so which way? Higher or lower, etc. Kevlar or zx, etc.

    Also what would happen if I strung the center cross strings at say 60lbs and the rest in the 30s?
     
  17. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    Dude I think it's the zx....reviewers here at TW have said zx makes a terrible ping sort of sound and vibrates a lot.....I'm not knocking it ....but just read the product reviews here at TW.

    Don't kill the messenger.
     
  18. Shroud

    Shroud Hall of Fame

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    Its not the zx. I have used zx in this frame type before and had no issues, but 30lbs is as low as I have gone. WHen I was stringing low, I had this happen in the POG, PS85, and to an extent the Hyper Hammer os. This happened with poly crosses as well and sometimes a few lbs in either direction would change the vibes.

    Think I'll go higher in the crosses say 40lbs.
     
  19. unorthodox stringing

    unorthodox stringing Rookie

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    How about some stringsavers? They're really cheap!

    I've been experimenting with them recently and found that it helped to:
    (1) dampen strings vibrations,
    (2) restore some lost tension, and
    (3) add more pocketing :)

    http://unorthodoxstringing.blogspot.sg/2014/12/stringsavers-with-usedworn-poly-works.html
     
  20. Shroud

    Shroud Hall of Fame

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    Hi UOS!

    Thanks for the tip. I actually have some but havent tried them. I have it in my head that they limit spin but maybe not. Nice blog and you beat me to the metal strings!!!!

    Played yesterday and the PING was still there. That was the 1st time the racket was ever strung. Maybe the grommets seating might have something to do with the ping? Or just the tensions?
     
  21. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Legend

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    String savers create more spin but less power . You have to find the right balance.....they will deaden the string bed even more allowing you to swing even harder....no need to string at 90 pounds.....

    But if you want to create some super extra spin with string savers then try this....it works great for me:

    http://youtu.be/gJnSFdHqkrg
     
  22. Allcourtguy

    Allcourtguy Rookie

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    Ricardo,
    I saw in one of your posts that you were going to try using a cable puller from Home Depot to prestretch. How did that experiment work out for you?

    Allcourtguy
     
  23. graycrait

    graycrait Rookie

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    I've tried all the Kevlar Aramid strings that I can get a hold of some in ESP, most in some 65/62 arena, but some in the high 50s and low 40s in the crosses, bu none in the 90/50 category. Tonight I tried some pre stretched 16G Zyex in the mains and pre stretched 17G in the crosses 65/62 in an 18/19 Head Microgel Radical Oversize (107") weighing 12oz. Last time unstretched zyex x zyex I was launching 'em to the moon. With the prestretched zyex it was a nice feel with easy power but more control. I stick one end of the string in a wood workers vice and wrap the other end around a rubber covered 1.5" dowel. Hold the dowel and string with a rubber glove and lean into it. It stretches in short order and no coil memory either. I don't know how long it will be playable now that the initial tension is gone but it seems to play well now. I'll be playing in league singles and doubles Weds night and then we'll see how it goes against hard hitting youngsters. Zyex x Zyex might hit well in one of my 95" Wilson 16x18s. Anyway I am giving prestretched zyex a try and initially it feels pretty good, although the sound initially can be a bit off putting.
     
  24. Shroud

    Shroud Hall of Fame

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    Cool. You are braver than I. I havent tried zx in a full bed. I think I would launch too much. I need the kevlar control.

    And hey what were your findings on the different kevlars?
     
  25. ricardo

    ricardo Professional

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    Pre-stretching using cable puller is kaput!!

    I was breaking more strings than pre-stretching strings.
    The cable puller is so easy to pull so I keep pulling and pulling
    and all of a sudden the string breaks. Maybe I am pulling at 100 lbs or more
    and not aware of it.

    So now I am using what Traveljam used to do:
    I use my stringer (dropweight desktop stringer) itself to pre-stretch the string.
    I set it to 60 lbs and pull a string for 8 hours and regularly adjust to maintain horizontal bar.

    So far I haven't broken a string yet using this method

    I get about 5 inches permanent creep for a 20 ft synthetic (16,17,18g).
    I haven't tried Nat. gut yet nor poly.

    I am very satisfied with the playability of the string when it is pre-stretch.
    The difference is noticeable. It is much, much better.

    Question:

    If you set a reference tension at 60lbs to pull a 1.5 ft string,
    do you increase the reference tension to pull a 20ft string to get similar result? By how much?
     
  26. Allcourtguy

    Allcourtguy Rookie

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    Thanks for the info Ricardo.

    I was thinking of maybe putting my gamma tension meter in line between the cable puller and the ZX so I could see the tension I was pulling. What do you think?

    Allcourtguy
     
  27. Allcourtguy

    Allcourtguy Rookie

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    Ashahway Kevlar Plus

    All,
    Is there a general consensus on the board as to how the Kevlar Plus works in an ESP setup vs. regular Ashaway Kevlar?

    Also,
    what gauge kevlar seems to be preferred?

    thanks,
    Allcourtguy
     
  28. ricardo

    ricardo Professional

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    Good idea...

    If that works it is a good idea.
    My primary problem was that I did not know
    what tension I was pulling at so I kept pulling.
    The cable puller that I bought is rated at 1/2 ton pull capability.

    I even thought of buying a hunter's weight scale but it is so darn expensive,
    so back to the drawing board.

    Pre-stretching Finding:
    What I found and read is that to be effective, you must get at least 3-4 inches of permanent creep (elongation) for a 20ft string lenght. Otherwise,
    you don't get improved tension loss.

    70lbs pre-stretch
    I am currently pre-stretching using 50lbs for 8 hours and get 5 inches permanent creep on a 20ft string.

    I will try 70lbs next time. I want to get at least 6 inches or more creep.
     
  29. travlerajm

    travlerajm Hall of Fame

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    I assume you are stretching 20-ft segments at a time. How are you anchoring the stringer to your desktop so that it can resist the 70 lbs of lateral pull?
     
  30. graycrait

    graycrait Rookie

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    I anchor about 2-3" of Ashaway Kevlar or ZX/ZX Pro in a wood worker vice attached to my work bench, wrap the other end around the rubber coated handle of an expandable baton and grip the wrap with a heavy duty rubber glove, run the line through spare bedroom/workshop across the hall and into the other bedroom. Then lean into it. I am reluctantly thinking prestretched is better.
     
  31. ricardo

    ricardo Professional

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    Yes. I am stretching 20-ft segments at a time.
    I always string 2 piece.

    I lay my stringer (Gamma x-6FC) on a carpeted floor.
    I then put around 80lbs of dumbells on top.

    On a 20-ft segment I get 5 inchess of creep (permanent elongation)
    @50lbs for 8 hours.

    I will try 60 up to 90lbs.

    I want to get at least 6 inches of creep, up to a foot if possible.

    The reason I am targeting 6 inches is that a used string had a creep of about 1 foot (20-ft segment).
     
  32. ricardo

    ricardo Professional

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    Do you measure the before/after lenght?
    As far as I know, there should be a creep (permanent elongation).
    Otherwise, the pre-stretch will not improve tension maintenance that much.

    If you look at TW's string DB, there is a significant (>75% on some strings) reduction of tension loss
    if you stretch the string correctly.

    Have fun.
     
  33. graycrait

    graycrait Rookie

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    I still have some prestretching consistency issues but now ignore them for the most part. And I applaud all those who have specific methodology that includes consistent measurable tension, time, temperature, and whatever variables my unscientific mind can conjure. I measured a pull once with luggage scales of about 90lbs, but I gave up on the science and just use my safe hook up method and haul back as hard as I dare through the two rooms and hallway. My pull point is near my bedpost so I just watch the string stretch in relation to it until I see it has stretched permanently to a "satisfactory" point.

    Sure do like how coil memory disappears in ZX when prestretched. What I found is that using unprestretched full bed ZX creates a ball launcher as far as I am concerned and that was with pretty high tension. Using a bed of ZX prestretched I get less launch but haven't been able to hit enough with the prestretched full bed to really assess if this is "better" for me than Kevlar x ZX. I was hoping for "magic" strings that allow a bit more "power" with control like I get with the Kev/ZX.

    I normally play with either Volkl Organix V1 102" or Wilson 95s that weigh about 11.4 oz. However I ordered and received a used 137" Big Bubba from TW just to see what that was all about. It came with some kind of Gosen Poly in it and I hit with that. That was not a pleasant experience. So yesterday I strung it up with some prestretched Ashaway Kevlar x prestretched ZX. I really want to hit with it in the next few days. The Big Bubba will likely be my last racket experiment. I've tried enough of them from 93" now to 137". I think around 100" works the best for me right now. But if Big Bubba x Kev/ZX is "magic" I have no problem playing with that crazy looking racket.
     
  34. travlerajm

    travlerajm Hall of Fame

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    I still have my Blade strung with kev/zx at 90/40 lbs that I strung in October. After 4 months in the racquet and many hours, the control is still good, spin is not as good as when fresh, but still quite playable. The esp effect of having near-constant rebound angle regardless of attack angle was still there, but the dynamic range of spin was a bit lower. The racquet is back to its relaxed length. The most interesting difference is that the feel is completely different than when fresh - a few weeks ago, the feel suddenly changed and became more harsh and stiff. It feels as if the stringbed tightened up.

    This week I strung up my backup Blade the same way at kevl/zx 90/40 lbs prestretched. The spin was montrous - feel was very soft, almost too soft (I might raise the cross tension a few lbs next time), yet volleying was decent. Power level was much higher than my 4-month-old stringjob. Control and returns were terrific. The racquet squashed 3mm from it's relaxed length, then relaxed back 0.5mm (to 2.5mm shorter than relaxed length) after one session of singles.

    The strings I cut out were the Wislon resolve poly at 75/50 prestretched. The full poly lost its esp effect within a a couple of hours of play. The kev/zx esp effect seems to last much longer than that.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2015
  35. newyorkstadium

    newyorkstadium Semi-Pro

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    If money was no object (I wish), how long would you keep the stringbed?

    You say it became harsh a few weeks back. Does that mean you got about three months out of it playing soft and plush? Does it cause any pain or would you say it is hazardous? Sorry, I intend to playtest this but I need to know it is safe, as I have chronic injury problems.

    Thanks
     
  36. graycrait

    graycrait Rookie

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    A friend of mine who is 33 years younger than me and former DII player had me string up his old Head Ti Radical 98" with Kevlar/ZX a couple of months ago and he is still using that racket. I looked at the strings the other night and was surprised at the lack of wear, especially no noticeable wear on the ZX, but the Ashaway 16G Kevlar looks "smooth." This 27 year old hits with a ton of topspin on both sides and has power for a 5'9" guy. He had me string up his other ancient Ti Radical so he has another with the Kev/Zyex. Although not ESP he thinks these strings allow him to do stuff he hadn't done before. I wish I could get the racket head speed he does with accuracy.

    On a good day with the cheap speed gun I might get a couple of 90mph serves if I give it my all, but mostly in the 75-80 mph and my ground strokes are generally much slower. I would hate to guess how long a racket strung with Kevlar x Zyex would last me. Currently I play with too many rackets to give durability/playability an objective assessment for a senior player. That is why I was happy to string this 27yr old "kid's" rackets to see how long those strings last with a "real" player.
     
  37. travlerajm

    travlerajm Hall of Fame

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    Actually, today the harshness of the 4-month-old 90/40 zx is not as bad as it was the other day. I used it outdoors in wet Seattle winter weather a couple of times where the balls rolled through puddles, and I think the kevlar strings absorbed moisture that made them stickier. But now that it's had a few days to dry off, the feel is improved. I'd still say this racquet plays and feels better all around than a fresh set of conventionally strung mid-tension poly, as there is still some residual tension differential preserved.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2015
  38. graycrait

    graycrait Rookie

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    Here is a review of pedestrian strung 65/60 Kev x ZX from a guy who can pound the ball accurately with what I consider serious topspin even if he doesn't see it that way. His string job is at least 2 months old. Incidentally I string for free for both labor and strings just to see what happens.

    I think they're playing great now, just moving around some whereas when new they never even budged... I think you did 65/60 and they played tight in the beginning so maybe 62/60 and perfect setup! I really have never played with the combo you invented, and it was perfect for me right off the bat, just a little stiff up the arm cuz it was strung a little tight. Excellent feel somehow, and great spin although i dont consider myself a huge topspin guy... My backhand is my confidence right now and this string setup has definitely capitalized that potential cuz my backhand is very flat, short, and 'poppy' so it gives me fantastic feel and touch on short power strokes... However... My forehand on the other hand is giving me many problems... Its much more 'loopy' and faster with more reliance on topspin to bring the ball back into this hemisphere so i dunno if its the strings or my swing (prolly the latter ) but im definitely swinging tighter on my forehand lately. Its likely something i have to just adjust and practice like everything else, but maybe 62/60 will allow me to get a little more give and grip during contact to 'grab' that spin i count on... Hope this was some good feedback. You're as creative as they come at stringing wild combos and not afraid of the results... Good or bad... And that makes you very rare among the many stringers who are unwilling to adjust to individual swings and styles. Thanks for putting up with my specs!!
     
  39. travlerajm

    travlerajm Hall of Fame

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    I compared the 4-month-old 90/40 kev/zx head-to-head vs the fresh one last night.

    The amazing thing is that the fresh one was still playing with just as much control as the fresh one. However, the 4-month-old stringbed felt and played tighter than the fresh one. It's as if the extreme tension differential somehow created a situation of negative tension loss. The sound when I ping the stringbed is a half-step higher on the fresh one, but the fresh one definitely plays and feels looser. Maybe the tightness of the feel is proportional to the harmonic mean of the main and cross tensions (rather than the arithmetic mean), which would mean the tightness would increase as the tensions equilibrate? Intriguing.

    The feel on the fresh one is firm on flat shots, and soft and pillowy on spin shots.
    On the old bed, the feel is crisp on all shots, including spin shots. Maybe a little harsh feeling outside the sweetspot.

    Directional control is great for both beds.

    Spin on spin shots is better for the fresh one (off the charts), but the spin on the old bed is still about as good as a fresh conventionally strung poly.

    Power level is higher for the fresh bed than for the old one.

    The mainstrings snap back fully into place with straight alignment on both beds. But the friction level is definitely lower on the fresh one, as snapback is much faster.

    This is the first stringbed setup I've ever used that played great spin and control from the start and also maintained acceptable performance this long.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2015
  40. Allcourtguy

    Allcourtguy Rookie

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    Tension question for Travlerajm

    Hi Travlerajm,
    I am a borderline 4.0 doubles player who serves and volleys. Friday night I was at one my two weekly clinics. I had strung my Head GRadPro (stiffness 68) with Ashaway Kevlar 16g at 62 in the mains and Ashaway Zyex Monogut at 40 in the crosses.

    The pro who was running the clinic was feeding the balls to me hard and low to work on volleys. I always take the ball out front and am a very strong volley-er, forehand and backhand. I found the volleying to be very precise. I usually use a Babolat Hybrid pkg, VS 16g nat gut in the mains at 55 and the Hurricane Pro in the crosses at 53. I added a very small amount of lead at 3 and 9 when I first got the GRadPros because I found the contact to be jarring when the racquet. The lead eliminated the problem. I never have arm pain.

    Bottom line is after about half an hour I started to feel pain in my arm using the ESP methodology at the previously mentioned tensions. I had to stop using the ESP racquet and pick up the VS hybrid again.I had prestretched the Zyex and got at least 16 inches additional length. I got 2 inches additional length after prestretching the Kevlar. I had read the entire ESP post and didn't double the string during the prestretching process.

    Any suggestions on what to try here? Decreasing the tension all around?

    If not, I will be giving up on the ESP philosophy.

    thanks for your help,
    Allcourtguy
     
  41. ricardo

    ricardo Professional

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    Pre-stretching clarification...

    Hi Allcourtguy,

    16 inches additional length

    I just want some clarification.

    Is this lenght while stretching or after stretching?
    Is this a 'stretch' or 'permanent' creep?

    When I pre-stretch, I can see the string stretching by about 2 ft (24 inches).
    I maintain the tension for about 8 hours.

    When I release tension after 8 hours, I only get a permanent creep of 5 inches. After pre-stretching, the string is longer by only 5 inches, not by 24 inches while stretching it.


    Thank you in advance.
     
  42. travlerajm

    travlerajm Hall of Fame

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    I would keep the kevlar tension at 62, but drop the ZX tension down to 30 lbs. In my experience, 20 lbs is not always enough differential to ensure good freedom of travel for the mains, and the key to the soft feel is that the mains can move freely. The GRadPro has a denser pattern than my Blade, even though it's 16x19.

    I have my BLX Pro Tour (ultradense pattern) strung up at 70/30. The feel is quite soft.
     
  43. travlerajm

    travlerajm Hall of Fame

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    Each type of string behaves differently. Nylon (aka synthetic gut) creeps about 5 inches, as you have noticed. Ashaway Monogut Zyex is a very different material that does not have its polymer chains very well-aligned after extrusion - it will permanently creep 20" or more (4-5 times as much as nylon). But after prestretching, Zyex holds tension better than nylon.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2015
  44. ricardo

    ricardo Professional

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    Thanks travlerajm.

    I have two sets of Ashaway Monogut Zyex. I will pre-stretch using the same process I used for Nylon strings (Wilson Reaction 16g and Alpha Gut 2K 18g).
     
  45. Allcourtguy

    Allcourtguy Rookie

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    When I prestreched I pulled by leaning back for about 5 minutes, bouncing some ton increase and vary the force. I had the original length marked by a stool that I had pulled up under the end of the string. I leaned hard and would hold, then loosen until I saw slack in the string and just see how much farther past the stool the end of the string was. I thought this was permanent stretch. Each time I would have more length before I loosened. I stopped about 16 inches past the stool.

    I thought from what I read that it wasn't how long you pulled with the Zyex, but how hard.

    Allcourtguy
     
  46. Shroud

    Shroud Hall of Fame

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    It's hard to tell from the post but it sounds like you strung it up and went right to volley practice.

    My 2 cents is that it takes a bit of hitting for the Kevlar to relax and volleys don't really count

    I did 60/40 in my ps85 and that first say 30-40 minutes I was like "man this or way too tight". And then it was much better. If you were just volleying I can see where it may be too much.

    If you can do some ground stroke hitting or sometimes just letting it sit a day or so can make it a bit softer. I might try that before re-stringing.
     
  47. newyorkstadium

    newyorkstadium Semi-Pro

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    Wonderful stuff. Thanks for the latest update. Could it be that the increased COF caused the increased tightness?
     
  48. Allcourtguy

    Allcourtguy Rookie

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    Shroud, thanks for your input. I neglected to say that we did hit ground strokes first for a while and it felt stiff, it's just the volleys were even worse. I was assuming that since I pre-stretched that I didn't need to wait to let the string relax more. You are correct though that I did finish stringing and went to clinic, but I am VERY hesitant to pick it up like it is right now.....

    Allcourtguy
     
  49. Shroud

    Shroud Hall of Fame

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    Acg

    It's best to wait if your arm is sore.

    My thought is that it's not so much the strings stretching but more like a "settling" in the string bed. Though every string set up has some tension loss in the 1st 24hrs

    Another thought is if you go too low it's too low. And I have had some frames that don't like tension in certain ranges. Every racket is different some in the 30s some in the 20s but never had one in the 40s. You will know right away because the vibes will be unholy

    Often I have found that getting passed the initial stage things loosen and then it's great. But lower tension doesn't always get you where you like.

    I just got an 18/20 frame so I will probably go through some hassle getting it dialed. It's also a 95" so tension will be different.
     
  50. ricardo

    ricardo Professional

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    Hi ACG,

    Base on your description, I think you are still pulling when you measure the 16 inches elongation.

    What I do
    1. I measure the string before I pre-stretch or I use the other half of the string (20ft) for comparison.
    2. After pre-stretching, I measure it again or compare it to the other half of the string (20ft).

    String is completely relax

    When I take the 'after' measurement, the string is completely relaxed. It is laying on the floor. I am no longer pulling it. I am just measuring it.

    You are still pulling
    Again, base on your description, I think you are still pulling and applying some tension on the string when measuring it against the stool.

    Please confirm and again, thank you in advance.
     

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