I like Wozniacki's game

Discussion in 'General Pro Player Discussion' started by christos_liaskos, Sep 2, 2011.

  1. christos_liaskos

    christos_liaskos Professional

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    For the last 2 or 3 years atleast I've watched virtually no women's tennis. Even before that I never followed it as much as the men's. I watch so much men's tennis that when the women come on that is the time for me to get up off my bum to actually do something lol or I just leave it on in the background in situations like now where I meet be on the computer etc. I like Serena though and Maria and have seen a few more of their matches over the years, to the point where I feel comfortable on making comments about their games.

    Last night however before I went to bed Wozniacki was the first evening match on. While I was busy messing about on my computer I realised that I don't really know anything about the world no1's game, and couldn't think of one match that I'd ever watched of her. So I decided to watch a few games to see what she was like, especially since she seems to get so much hate on this forum.

    I was pleasantly surprised. Yes there seemed to be a lot of chasing balls down and defending like people complain about on here (for some reason). But I liked how she actually seemed to have her brain engaged in the match. Moving the ball around, giving herself time to recover and cover the court, and unlike what people on here seem to say, when she had time on the ball she would move her opponent around and eventually get them out of position. Yes she didn't have the massive weapons of a Maria, Serena or Kim, but she was able to outmanouver her opponent instead using her tactical sense. I was impressed enough to the point where after recording the remainder of the night session, when I woke up this morning instead of fastforwarding straight to the men's match I watched the rest of Woznicki's match. I'm glad I did.

    On a forum where there have been so many threads titled "WTA is full of mindless ball bashing" etc etc, I don't get why people don't appreciate Wozniacki's game a little more. She definitely didn't fit the 'defender only' category for me either as she had some pace and weight on her shots as she lent into them, OK it wasn't enough to hit outright winners over and over but as I said that sort of tennis seems to get blasted on here all the time. Especially when those sort of players have bad days (which most of the WTA seem to have 90% of the time) and they just hit a load of errors.

    In the way she defended the court, and when able to would mover her opponent around, she reminded me of Murray, a comparison which I think many have already made(?) Maybe she didn't have some of the outright power that Murray is starting to show he has more and more (although I always knew he had it there) but she showed the same tactical ability as Murray. Maybe that's the problem on this forum atleast. There seem to be a lot of members who are probably lacking in this department themselves and are not able to understand or appreciate this side of the game. Over the years it's most likely these people who have bashed Murray as a pusher etc etc.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2011
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  2. halalula1234

    halalula1234 Professional

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    shes different and it is great sometimes but sometimes its just boring
     
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  3. Gimmick

    Gimmick Semi-Pro

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    PT Barnum once said, "There's a troll born every minute" :-?
     
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  4. Lunaticalm

    Lunaticalm New User

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    As a fan of Wozniacki, I can't help but smile a little bit when I was reading your post.

    Wozniacki does not get as much credit as she should have in here, or any other tennis forum I visit for playing such a subtle but tactically smart game. Peter Bodo over on Tennis.com also wrote a similar article about her playstyle, which he appreciated from my understanding of it.

    Sometimes I think they just bash her because their favorites, usually players who on paper should beat her easily being the "pusher" that she is, Caro manages to win against which most of her detractors can't accept.
     
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  5. rossi46

    rossi46 Professional

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    That's a lot of time, energy & words to waste on the "BEST" player on the women's tour
     
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  6. split-step

    split-step Professional

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    There's nothing exciting about her game. She hits crosscourt like 90 percent of the time, especially on the forehand. She's very unnatural at net and doesn't have good feel. She hits a 2 handed backhand slice. I could go on and on.
    Her game is DULL.

    I watch tennis to see amazing shots. Amazing defense, amazing offense, real cerebral players (like Hingis not Caro, please), real tacticians, great variety.
    This is why Henin on clay was such a joy to watch.
     
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  7. juanparty

    juanparty Semi-Pro

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    thats the point my friend! :):)
     
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  8. ttbrowne

    ttbrowne Hall of Fame

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    She has to have some ability far beyond most of the WTA. Break her game down:
    Above average serve. Placement, speed. Needs better second serve
    Great court coverage. For being 5'11" she covers the court above average.
    BH above average. Don't hit it to her backhand. Has great placement & speed.
    FH average & below. Forehand tends to breakdown. Needs to develop power here.
    Above average resistance to pressure.
    Out of 67 matches this year she's won 55.
    I find that kind of talent very exciting.
     
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  9. Povl Carstensen

    Povl Carstensen Legend

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    Twohanded backhand slice, that settles it.
     
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  10. dominikk1985

    dominikk1985 Legend

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    You can't say above average without saying average:D.

    she is certainly good an has learned to hit the ball much harder over the last year too. but I wouldn't consider here great. she is good on most strokes but has nothing outstanding.

    very good (the hate here is certainly not justified) but not great player.
     
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  11. Tanya

    Tanya Professional

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    The problem that I personally have with Caroline is that she is complacent as the #1 ranked player and shows no real passion to actually make herself a "great" player. Yes she is "smart" enough to take advantage of the mass amount of ball-bashing on the WTA to the point where more often than not her opponents beat themselves, however based on a talent level Caroline is nowhere near the best in the game. She's not even top 10 in my opinion. While it's true that it isn't her fault that she is ranked #1, she seems almost frantic in her efforts to maintain that ranking by accumulating as many points as possible and playing as many matches as she can. However, in big situations at majors, she can easily be blown away by superior players (see: Kvitova vs. Woz Wimbledon 2010). On top of that her game is excruciatingly boring to watch. While I don't mind a subtle game like Radwanska who does not rely on power to win, Wozniacki's only real tactic seems to be to run around far behind the baseline and retrieve everything, sending it back more often than not crosscourt with tons of margin over the net. This isn't truly strategy in my book. Anyway, hopefully this discussion will no longer be relevant by the end of next year because I'm HOPING someone will knock her off the top spot of the rankings.
     
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  12. Baxter

    Baxter Professional

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    I watched her for the first time the other day as well and was very impressed with her movement and ball striking. She deserves to be number one. She may not be the best player on the tour right now, that's Serena of course, but she's earned all those points with a solid game.
     
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  13. tennis_fan_182

    tennis_fan_182 Banned

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    Yeh, what I don't get is that for all the hate on here for mindless ball bashing ie. try to hit a winner on every occasion and make a lot of errors in the process - when someone comes around who embodies the ABSOLUTE OPPOSITE of that strategy (Wozniacki) - she still gets bashed. It's the ultimate case of 'damned if you do, damned if you don't.'

    Guys on here are just rebels without a cause.
     
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  14. Bjorn99

    Bjorn99 Professional

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    She has creamy thighs and they move beautifully. She is the 2011 version of Hingis. Heady, dreamy and great movement. A total treat to watch.
     
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  15. Tanya

    Tanya Professional

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    That's an insult to Hingis... Martina was a genius, Caroline is a backboard.
     
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  16. kanamit

    kanamit Hall of Fame

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    Too bad she has the intelligence of a kangaroo.
     
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  17. tango

    tango New User

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    I agree with the OP, Wozzy is what the WTA needs to motivate the part-time players and improve the consistency of the program as a whole. She's also easy to be a fan of for people like me, who cringe at all the unforced errors of the WTA :). I love it when she lobs, no one has any idea what to do with that, haha.
     
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  18. Cormorant

    Cormorant Professional

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    I'm up for being won over to her game. She's likely reaching the semi-finals, so here's hoping we see something special instead of a #1 out of their depth.
     
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  19. Tennis_Monk

    Tennis_Monk Hall of Fame

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    I like how Caroline looks. She has great legs , curves and ofcourse good rear.
     
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  20. OddJack

    OddJack Legend

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    I dislike her, If she is losing I watch and enjoy, if she is wining I switch to gardening channel.
     
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  21. juanparty

    juanparty Semi-Pro

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    ànd she is fat and has no chin. like a south park draw.

    [​IMG]
     
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  22. Bryan Swartz

    Bryan Swartz Hall of Fame

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    I don't understand this argument. Her schedule is virtually identical to, for example, Zvonareva and Azarenka. Difference is, she's a lot more consistently successful than they are.

    That's extremely unlikely. Sharapova pretty much just put the nail in the coffin with her recent loss. Unless Wozniacki loses soon in the USO, she'll have a monstrous lead after it. She will already be extending her lead as compared to Na and Kvitova, Azarenka's not making up any ground unless she knocks off Serena, and Zvonareva and the rest are way behind.

    Unless she falls off a cliff in Tokyo/Beijing/YEC, it's very likely the Great Dane will stay at the top into 2012.
     
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  23. LuvTheGame

    LuvTheGame Banned

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    Why watch tennis? There are magazines and movies created to get your type through the day and night!

    Remarks like yours show total disrespect and disregard to female professional athletes period!
     
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  24. rommil

    rommil Legend

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    Simple. Just tell Serena there is a Danish that needs to be taken cared of, end of story.
     
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  25. Tanya

    Tanya Professional

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    That made my night!
     
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  26. christos_liaskos

    christos_liaskos Professional

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    This is one of the main points I was trying to make but maybe it got lost a bit in all my rambling. I think the problem in Wozniacki's case is that people still seem to think it's 'mindless' but in a running and defending way rather than bashing and aggressive way. It's the mindlessness that seems to put people off.

    That's not what I saw though when I watched her. She moved the ball and her opponent round smartly and defended her side of the court smartly by using good court positioning suitable to her shot selection.

    I suppose you have to have some sort of tennis knowledge to appreciate that sort of play though and maybe some people just aren't at that level. Never mind
     
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  27. Tanya

    Tanya Professional

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    That isn't really the point I was making. What I was trying to say was that Wozniacki seems more worried about maintaining her (artificial) #1 ranking than about improving her game to make it a style of play that can win her majors. She seems more content to sit atop the rankings than to hold up grand slam trophies.
     
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  28. THUNDERVOLLEY

    THUNDERVOLLEY G.O.A.T.

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    Clinical term: Safinaism.
     
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  29. Baxter

    Baxter Professional

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    She's easily into the the fourth round. Nice work.
     
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  30. cknobman

    cknobman Legend

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    She looked damn good in that outfit today.
     
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  31. OrangePower

    OrangePower Hall of Fame

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    I like Wozniacki's game also. And regarding the negative comments people make about her, I don't think that it's because people don't like her specifically. If she was ranked #5 for example, I think you would hear mostly positive things about her.

    But people have high expectations of a player ranked #1. People expect a player ranked #1 to be 'great', not just very good. 'Great' is of course subjective, but most people will agree that players like Graf and Seles, and more recently, Henin and Serena, were/are great. Likewise, most will agree that Woz is not great.

    Obviously it's not Woz's fault - she's #1, and really there's no other player out there right now deserving of being #1. But people are frustrated about the lack of great players and are taking it out on Woz. The fact that there has been a string of underwhelming #1's is probably part of the accumulated frustration.

    What we really need is for a new great player to emerge.
     
    #31
  32. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    There are players ranked #1 that never won a slam, but there are slam winners that never reached #1. And there are slam winners without a year ending #1 crown. Many players fall into one of this category, and each has it's own hole.
     
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  33. Peters

    Peters Semi-Pro

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    Yep, this.

    There's no argument against Woz being number 1 when you see the alarming inconsistency of other players (Li Na, Kvitova, etc). Having a purple patch in one tournament can't be considered more worthy by itself - it needs to be backed up by other good performances all year round.

    Wozniacki's been the best of a bad bunch these last 12 months. There are players with bigger shots than her, but they blow too hot&cold - and deservedly are below her in the rankings.
     
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  34. Tanya

    Tanya Professional

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    That's true although slightly irrelevant... Players that win a grand slam are not necessarily expected to be the best player on the tour, it just shows that they were the best player for a 2-week period of time. The #1 ranked player, however, is typically expected to be the best player throughout the whole year. And I personally find it difficult to give credibility to a player ranked #1 who has not even really come close to winning a slam (yes she made it to the semis at the Australian and had match point against Li Na, but there was almost no way she would have beaten Clijsters in the final anyway had she managed to win her semi).

    It's true that Caroline deserves to be in the top 5, but when you see the "1" next to her name it makes the ranking system look like a bit of a joke considering her performances in slams post-AO.

    Basically the fact that Caroline is almost completely at the mercy of her opponent is what irks me the most, and the fact that she gets away with it because at the moment the WTA is full of ball-smacking error-machines is even more frustrating.

    I like Caroline as a person, she's a very nice girl and her vapidity is almost endearing, but she lacks the heart and will of a champion and for that I don't think I can ever see her as a rightful #1 (until she proves otherwise).
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2011
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  35. TMF

    TMF Talk Tennis Guru

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    Everyone is playing full time tennis except a few(the old, the injury prone, the unfit). Caro is the best and most consistent throughout 12 months so she's #1. If it's not Caro, someone has to be #1. Simple as that.
     
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  36. Peters

    Peters Semi-Pro

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    Yeah, but Tanya the ranking system would work absolutely fine if the other players actually stepped up and played properly all year round - and not regressing into amateur-mode for large swathes of the year.

    Wozniacki's number 1 is a simple and obvious result of the other players failings, not of the ranking system not working.

    It'll sort itself out once the general level of quality in the WTA increases.
     
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  37. Tanya

    Tanya Professional

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    I realize this, and like I said I don't dislike Caroline. My problem with her comes from her (seeming) lack of passion as well as my frustration for the other girls who are much more talented than her yet can't seem to pull it together.

    Caroline is undoubtedly the most consistent player on the tour, however that doesn't translate to her being the BEST. That's the problem I have with her being ranked #1.
     
    #37
  38. Peters

    Peters Semi-Pro

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    But the ranking itself is purely a calculation of their performance over the previous 12 months. Which therefore results in Wozniacki being number 1. It's simply a fact that she's accrued more ranking points than the other players - nowhere does the WTA rankings actually say "No1 = officially most talented player!". It's just statistical performance.

    So is your problem with the system, or just with the WTA in general at the moment? Because I can't for the life of me see how any system couldn't give Wozniacki the current number 1 spot, not without massively reducing the ranking points for many other events in the calendar - but this would have a devastating impact on the perceived importance of playing tennis all year round.
     
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  39. Tanya

    Tanya Professional

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    I'm not sure why you're arguing with me when I'm agreeing with you... I realize that it does not say anywhere that the number 1 player is supposed to be the most talented player, HOWEVER what most people think of when they think of the number 1 ranked player is that that player is the BEST, not the most CONSISTENT. The same thing happened to Jankovic a number of years ago when she rose to the #1 ranking. I don't think anyone really viewed her as the real #1, or at least not many people did.

    And you are right, no one else is deserving of the number one ranking right now, which is also part of the problem. Too many headcases and inconsistent girls on the WTA right now. It's a shame because there are some supremely talented players that aren't using their abilities to the fullest.
     
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  40. Murrayfan31

    Murrayfan31 Hall of Fame

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    She is hot and has a great game to watch. I like her sunshine personality as well.
     
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  41. whomad15

    whomad15 Semi-Pro

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    My issue with Woz is as others have said, she's a backboard. She's fine until she gets up against the "best" players.
    Anyone with patience and power will blast her off the court, it's the ones that try to do it in 2-3 shots to save energy that fail. Make her run for 4-6 and the court becomes a lot more open.

    Personally I like Kirilenko for the main reason that she actually comes to the net.
     
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  42. Lunaticalm

    Lunaticalm New User

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    Kvitova? She is a young great player who has emerged, although she is slumping a little bit right now.
     
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  43. Peters

    Peters Semi-Pro

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    It's okay, wasn't arguing. Just wasn't sure what it was you had a problem with exactly, that's all. ;)
     
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  44. ttbrowne

    ttbrowne Hall of Fame

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    Dom, Nowhere in my post did I say she is a "great player". You said that. What I did was breakdown her strokes.
    I did imply that she has a talent that is beyond most of the other players on the WTA tour. That is evident because she is #1. You do not get to #1 on the professional curcuit by playing average or just being "very good". Just as you do not get to Major League Baseball by being very good. You have to have one or two qualities that are exceptional.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2011
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  45. marpiw

    marpiw Semi-Pro

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    She could be better if she changed her coach,for a proffesional one and left her family at home watching her matches on TV.
     
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  46. Tennis_Monk

    Tennis_Monk Hall of Fame

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    To each their own. I like the way she is except for her dating that Golf dude. Cant learn golf now ;) (or may be i can. i can keep golfing till i turn 60)
     
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